That's a pretty simplistic viewpoint. Is he saying there wasn't active systemic racism in America to hold back black families?
Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics
- Thread starter wizard of Tauranga
- Start date
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I think it would help balance decision making. Emphasise long-term thinking (intergenerational well-being is a central pillar of Kaupapa Maori) esp around sustainability (Guardianship), particularly for environmental and resource management. I think it would be more people centric.
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Worried2Death
Contributor
The evil elites will never allow that comrade, the techno-fascist dystopia is upon us. The sheeple will be lining up to get Elon's neurolink implants while crying tyranny at their ideological strawmen. 100% demoralization achieved, just as Yuri warned.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw
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- Thread starter
- #12,765
Don’t we have co-governance now via parliament, if more Maori voted for National alone (22%) than Te Pāti Maori (16%) at the last election? Haven’t Maori themselves voted against co-governance?
Rawiri Waititi has repeatedly said co-governance is not enough. He wants the creation of a separate Māori Parliament. How would ancestry factor into the formation of a new parliament where more Maori support National and some (most?) Maori may not support governmental separation? Would you force Maori onto the new parliament? Or base it on a Maori roll rather than being Maori, which then defeats the whole racial segregation purpose?
So many issues - at least Seymour is stirring debate because at the moment there’s a vacuum on explaining the Maori vision from the Maori side.
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The problem is that for too long the Crown (Parliament) abdicated it's responsibility to enter into proper dialogue with Māori over the Treaty and how it should be now included into today's Laws. Instead, they left it up to Iwi, Hapu, lawyers, judges, the Tribunal, academics, etc to decide.
That's left the door open for someone like Seymour to launch this stunt and for people to call it racist and destroying the Treaty.
In my very simplicist view.... it's a contract between two parties and both need to come together and see a way forward and for it not to be left up to one side to decide what should happen or the other. Problem is, I don't think this country is mature enough to have a reasonable dialogue about it.
That's left the door open for someone like Seymour to launch this stunt and for people to call it racist and destroying the Treaty.
In my very simplicist view.... it's a contract between two parties and both need to come together and see a way forward and for it not to be left up to one side to decide what should happen or the other. Problem is, I don't think this country is mature enough to have a reasonable dialogue about it.
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Of course they survived. Or there wouldn’t be African Americans today.
What he’s saying is the family unit survived the most horrific atrocities they had known, until the welfare state made it desirable to have multiple “baby daddies”
There’s not a deeper esoteric message here.
Huh? The question has nothing to do with the quote. He’s saying family unit survived until the welfare state and single black mothers being glorified.
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How did that play out in reality?
Moa - extinct
Native geese - extinct
Native ducks - extinct
Huia - extinct.
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I’ve had a nagging paradoxical thought that keeps coming up.
There is a lot of argument about how colonialism in NZ did xyz, which caused people harm, and how the crown needs to make this right. And this colonialism debate is happening worldwide
Which, on the surface has merit and I actually understand and support this plight
However, the thought that keeps nagging is that, unless you are 100% Maori or Moriori, if colonialism never happened you actually wouldn’t have been born. Your ancestors would never have met and you wouldn’t have been created. You wouldn’t have had a different life because the genetics required to make you would never have been combined
So unless someone is
Maori or Moriori, arguing against colonialism is arguing against your existence. The hypothetical of a better life cannot exist
So then we are left with, you owe your life to colonialism happening. Yes, colonists could have done things differently, making society better now. But it didn’t. And there is no way around doing it differently as it just is. There is no counterfactual because it is something that simply happened. It is like wondering things would have been different if xyz didn’t happen, like the time traveller paradox
If you aren’t indigenous, then not only are you arguing against your existence, you are also arguing for restitution between different parts of your own genetic makeup, debating your great-ancestor on one side and another great-ancestor on another.
So while making an enemy of the crown for how your people were treated is understandable, but looking at it from an individual’s standpoint is hypocritical, as the individual wouldn’t even be here to argue
There is a lot of argument about how colonialism in NZ did xyz, which caused people harm, and how the crown needs to make this right. And this colonialism debate is happening worldwide
Which, on the surface has merit and I actually understand and support this plight
However, the thought that keeps nagging is that, unless you are 100% Maori or Moriori, if colonialism never happened you actually wouldn’t have been born. Your ancestors would never have met and you wouldn’t have been created. You wouldn’t have had a different life because the genetics required to make you would never have been combined
So unless someone is
Maori or Moriori, arguing against colonialism is arguing against your existence. The hypothetical of a better life cannot existSo then we are left with, you owe your life to colonialism happening. Yes, colonists could have done things differently, making society better now. But it didn’t. And there is no way around doing it differently as it just is. There is no counterfactual because it is something that simply happened. It is like wondering things would have been different if xyz didn’t happen, like the time traveller paradox
If you aren’t
indigenous, then not only are you arguing against your existence, you are also arguing for restitution between different parts of your own genetic makeup, debating your great-ancestor on one side and another great-ancestor on another. So while making an enemy of the crown for how your people were treated is understandable, but looking at it from an individual’s standpoint is hypocritical, as the individual wouldn’t even be here to argue
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This is the correct take. In Aus and NZ colonialism was a net benefit to the indigenous population.I’ve had a nagging paradoxical thought that keeps coming up.
There is a lot of argument about how colonialism in NZ did xyz, which caused people harm, and how the crown needs to make this right. And this colonialism debate is happening worldwide
Which, on the surface has merit and I actually understand and support this plight
However, the thought that keeps nagging is that, unless you are 100% Maori or Moriori, if colonialism never happened you actually wouldn’t have been born. Your ancestors would never have met and you wouldn’t have been created. You wouldn’t have had a different life because the genetics required to make you would never have been combined
So unless someone is
So then we are left with, you owe your life to colonialism happening. Yes, colonists could have done things differently, making society better now. But it didn’t. And there is no way around doing it differently as it just is. There is no counterfactual because it is something that simply happened. It is like wondering things would have been different if xyz didn’t happen, like the time traveller paradox
If you aren’t
So while making an enemy of the crown for how your people were treated is understandable, but looking at it from an individual’s standpoint is hypocritical, as the individual wouldn’t even be here to argue
I disagree.
It's a very white point of view.
What if they only ever traded. Wouldn't that also have been a net benefit to both?
People just love to assume my ethnicity from my beliefs. I am not "white"
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Sorry. I assume due to your name and avatar (though I know that's Christopher Walken) .
But it's still a very white view (history is written by the victors)
Take any stat from DV to murder to starvation to abuse and I guarantee it was higher pre-colonisation. Inversely, the same with life expectancy, health etc. Probably not true globally, but certainly is for Aus and NZ.
Tell you what, I wouldn’t mind knowing what those would have tasted like
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Maori life expectancy was short, only 25 to 30 years. Maori experienced low birth rates, highrates of degenerative diseases such as stomach and intestinal tumours, marginal (if notinadequate) food supplies, pneumonia and other respiratory diseases. Inter-tribal wars werealso a cause of many deaths. Skeletal studies indicated no epidemics, few chronic diseases suchas tuberculosis, no debilitating parasites, no heart diseases, no cancer, and few fractures. Therewere infectious diseases prior to European contact, but contagion was apparently contained.Even the highly contagious leprosy did not lead to widespread infection
Again not picking on Maori. North and West Africa was very much improved by colonisation. Central and South im not too sure.
