General Your 2025 team

[Inruin]

Are the Warriors going to win in 2025?
Hell, are the Warriors going to even make the finals?

We will make the finals, injuries permitting

If we’re not going to win it then by default we’re re/building.

The Warriors - re/building since 1995

JFH replaces AFB true…. But are different players so it’s not a 1 for 1 trade. JFHs effects are long term positive. Not AFBs on field influence/output.

Replacing a player is never going to be a direct swap. I was initially deflated about losing AFB because of his on-field output but have come around with the realization that our best wins were without him or with limited involvement. It would be interesting to know what affect his off field attitude had to the team. JFH brings a different on field output and a completely different off field attitude which I think are going to be more beneficial and I think more immediate than you think.

Erin has essentially replaced Tohu. The thing with insisting on a “ball playing 13” (that many members obsess over) is kinda irrelevant when one player (Erin Clark) simply isn’t half the player the guy he’s replacing is (Tohu 2023). We want 2023 Warriors, Not 2024 right……

I see it as Walker replacing Tohu more. Tohu was fantastic in 2023 but even then it was Walker coming off the bench providing the spark to our attack. Tohu generally played lock for 20 minutes to start the game then played more like a prop when the bench came on. I'm not sure if Clark will be the starting 13. Could be. But I see him as a better Jazz personally. As for 2023 or 2024. I want Panthers, Dolphins, Cowboys 2024 version Warriors please.

TMM, Metcalf and Boyd just simply aren’t as good as 2023 Shaun Johnson.

Ok, I'm going to get laughed at here but I think a TMM/Metcalf 7/6 combo is potentially better than an SJ/anyone combo. SJ had a team in career best form supporting him and maybe he helped lift them to that level as well. TMM gave us our best wins of the season with very make shift teams and Metcalf looks like he has developed a much better balance between running and passing selection. As a combination I think they are a much better balance for the side. Don't get me wrong, SJ was a hell of a player, but like AFB, I do think could be quite divisive. I feel like SJ had moved to a very restricted stick to the game plan approach regardless of the game situation. With TMM and Metcalf we will be much less predictable, (sometimes not in a good way!) and I particularly like TMM's ability to put a player through gaps and break open a defence.

I feel most people just want some short term 7-8th place “success” and yet the foundation is non existent. Those foundations fall apart if we choose 2 Australian halves that could just up and leave. Then what?

I think most people want some short term success but are realistic that systems have been put in to place for long term success.

As for the halves, I don't understand this line of thinking. Look, I want TMM and LM as our starting halves but if it's Boyd and LM because they are the best option then so be it. If they are our best chance of success this year and next then they are in. They are part of the squad. You can't base s team on what if scenarios. And if you are not going to play them because you are worried they'll leave then why even sign them in the first place? LM has extended his stay, Egan, Barney. At some point this season Boyd will be in the halves either because of form or injuries.

Didn't get me wrong we need to take risks.
I want Halasima/Laban to share the starting right edge, so they don’t burn out. Just for an example.
Just don’t be stupid. Metcalfe and Boyd as our starting halves is stupid.

Yes, I agree with all of this. You need a good mix and balance of older heads and younger bodies in the side. I think we will be closer to getting this right this year. I do worry about the younger guys form and output falling away mid to end of season. AW needs to learn from last season and effectively rotate players where needed at the right times. Not when it's too late.

No doubt in my mind that TMM and LM need to be the starting halves

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

We will make the finals, injuries permitting

The Warriors - re/building since 1995

Replacing a player is never going to be a direct swap. I was initially deflated about losing AFB because of his on-field output but have come around with the realization that our best wins were without him or with limited involvement. It would be interesting to know what affect his off field attitude had to the team. JFH brings a different on field output and a completely different off field attitude which I think are going to be more beneficial and I think more immediate than you think.

I see it as Walker replacing Tohu more. Tohu was fantastic in 2023 but even then it was Walker coming off the bench providing the spark to our attack. Tohu generally played lock for 20 minutes to start the game then played more like a prop when the bench came on. I'm not sure if Clark will be the starting 13. Could be. But I see him as a better Jazz personally. As for 2023 or 2024. I want Panthers, Dolphins, Cowboys 2024 version Warriors please.

Ok, I'm going to get laughed at here but I think a TMM/Metcalf 7/6 combo is potentially better than an SJ/anyone combo. SJ had a team in career best form supporting him and maybe he helped lift them to that level as well. TMM gave us our best wins of the season with very make shift teams and Metcalf looks like he has developed a much better balance between running and passing selection. As a combination I think they are a much better balance for the side. Don't get me wrong, SJ was a hell of a player, but like AFB, I do think could be quite divisive. I feel like SJ has moved to a very restricted stick to the game plan approach regardless of the game situation. With TMM and Metcalf we will be much less predictable, (sometimes not in a good way!) andni particularly like TMM's ability to put a player through gaps and break open a defence.


I think most people want some short term success but are realistic that systems have been put in to place for long term success.

As for the halves, I don't understand this line of thinking. Look, I want TMM and LM as our starting halves but if it's Boyd and LM because they are the best option then so be it. If they are our best chance of success this year and next then they are in. They are part of the squad. You can't base s team on what if scenarios. And if you are not going to play them because you are worried they'll leave then why even sign them in the first place? LM has extended his stay, Egan, Barney. At some point this season Boyd will be in the halves either because of form or injuries.

Yes, I agree with all of this. You need a good mix and balance of older heads and younger bodies in the side. I think we will be closer to getting this right this year. I do worry about the younger guys form and output falling away mid to end of season. AW needs to learn from last season and effectively rotate players where needed at the right times. Not when it's too late.

No doubt in my mind that TMM and LM need to be the starting halves

I actually genuinely feel like the Warriors haven’t had a real rebuild year. There’s a difference between have a shit year (which we’ve had many) and actually choosing a direction, committing to it, regardless of the results in one particular year.
Example; Tell players like CNK; “look, you’re not in our long term future plans for fullback, That’s going to be Taine. But we need to help us transition to that leading into 2026” or whatever. So it doesn’t turn into a shit show.
They’re always just trying to “scrape” into the eight I feel, then consider that “success”.

Which leads me to Boyd. (I feel I’ve explained this over multiple threads but here it goes).
Taking for granted that we’re not going to win the NRL in 2025. I doubt we’ve got the squad to get us to the finals. (Happy to be wrong, as long as we’re moving towards the ultimate goal)
IMO, it is foolish to select 2 Australian halves, who both come off contract at the same time, who I’ll bet almost anything at least one will leave heading into 2027. Who both aren’t CLEARLY better than TMM.
I’d pick TMM and Metcalf (yes Metcalf can leave too, but like I said in my last post, you need to take risks in some places.)
Absolutely Boyd will get game time, as the reserve/backup half. (Personally he’s the backup halfback for Metcalf. If Metcalf goes down I’d pick CHT to replace him)

We NEED to get our halves sorted by 2027.

DCE, Hunt, Foran, C Walker, Townsend and Wighton will all likely retire…….
2 more teams will be in the NRL by 2028.

It is stupid to give BOTH our starting halves spots (outside of forced injury) to 2 guys that will likely be in VERY high demand (regardless of their ability) in 2027 (which they conveniently come off contract for)

TMM has to star for the long term (3-5 years) success of the Warriors. And CHT has to get as much game time as reasonably possible.
Or sign someone…… easier said than done.

 

[Inruin]

I actually genuinely feel like the Warriors haven’t had a real rebuild year. There’s a difference between have a shit year (which we’ve had many) and actually choosing a direction, committing to it, regardless of the results in one particular year.
Example; Tell players like CNK; “look, you’re not in our long term future plans for fullback, That’s going to be Taine. But we need to help us transition to that leading into 2026” or whatever. So it doesn’t turn into a shit show.
They’re always just trying to “scrape” into the eight I feel, then consider that “success”.

Which leads me to Boyd. (I feel I’ve explained this over multiple threads but here it goes).
Taking for granted that we’re not going to win the NRL in 2025. I doubt we’ve got the squad to get us to the finals. (Happy to be wrong, as long as we’re moving towards the ultimate goal)
IMO, it is foolish to select 2 Australian halves, who both come off contract at the same time, who I’ll bet almost anything at least one will leave heading into 2027. Who both aren’t CLEARLY better than TMM.
I’d pick TMM and Metcalf (yes Metcalf can leave too, but like I said in my last post, you need to take risks in some places.)
Absolutely Boyd will get game time, as the reserve/backup half. (Personally he’s the backup halfback for Metcalf. If Metcalf goes down I’d pick CHT to replace him)

We NEED to get our halves sorted by 2027.

DCE, Hunt, Foran, C Walker, Townsend and Wighton will all likely retire…….
2 more teams will be in the NRL by 2028.

It is stupid to give BOTH our starting halves spots (outside of forced injury) to 2 guys that will likely be in VERY high demand (regardless of their ability) in 2027 (which they conveniently come off contract for)

TMM has to star for the long term (3-5 years) success of the Warriors. And CHT has to get as much game time as reasonably possible.
Or sign someone…… easier said than done.

Just in regards to the Australian halves, I agree Boyd isn't a better option than TMM or LM IMO. But if he is considered a better option then he plays. The counter to your argument is if we don't play him then he is even more likely to leave, and as you say, signing someone else is easier said than done. CHT isn't the answer either as a solution to a starting half, adequate cover though.
Out of interest, if having two starting Australian halves is stupid then would you consider having our starting, bench and back up 9's being all Australian be stupid too? If they are in the squad and the best option then they play imo.

Anyway, I think we are in agreement that TMM and LM should be our starting halves even if our reasoning differs.

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

Just in regards to the Australian halves, I agree Boyd isn't a better option than TMM or LM IMO. But if he is considered a better option then he plays. The counter to your argument is if we don't play him then he is even more likely to leave, and as you say, signing someone else is easier said than done. CHT isn't the answer either as a solution to a starting half, adequate cover though.
Out of interest, if having two starting Australian halves is stupid then would you consider having our starting, bench and back up 9's being all Australian be stupid too? If they are in the squad and the best option then they play imo.

Anyway, I think we are in agreement that TMM and LM should be our starting halves even our reasoning differs.

Him “leaving anyway” isn’t a counter to my argument bro. It actually reinforces my argument…….

Having an Australian 9 (which we have)
6 which we probably will.
And 7 which we may have.
And reserve 14/hooker.
That’s fucking madness……..

BTW, I had already accounted for an Australian hooker in my assessment.

 

[Inruin]

Him “leaving anyway” isn’t a counter to my argument bro. It actually reinforces my argument…….

Having an Australian 9 (which we have)
6 which we probably will.
And 7 which we may have.
And reserve 14/hooker.
That’s fucking madness……..

BTW, I had already accounted for an Australian hooker in my assessment.

What I meant was, if your concern about playing them is that they might leave, then surely not playing them makes them leaving even more likely. Playing them and having success has a similar chance of them staying. Besides, it's a professional competition and any player can up and leave for any reason. My point stands, if they are the best option in the current squad, they play, regardless of if they are Australian, kiwi or other. IMO Boyd isn't the best option so we are in agreement about him not being the starting half.

I guess we shouldn't be signing any players other than kiwis with no desire to go to Australia. But necessity demands it.

 

[Canonball]

What I meant was, if your concern about playing them is that they might leave, then surely not playing them makes them leaving even more likely. Playing them and having success has a similar chance of them staying. Besides, it's a professional competition and any player can up and leave for any reason. My point stands, if they are the best option in the current squad, they play, regardless of if they are Australian, kiwi or other. IMO Boyd isn't the best option so we are in agreement about him not being the starting half.

I generally agree with your pov here, as I think most involved in the comp (including coaches and management) are pragmatic professionals... what the T's knees hits on tho is interesting, but I think it's more to do with how the identity and image of 'our' team is constructed crossed with how contracting is currently set up under the cap system - and that's a massive subject, something for sports historians really ... doesn't change that I too think tmm and lm should start

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

What I meant was, if your concern about playing them is that they might leave, then surely not playing them makes them leaving even more likely. Playing them and having success has a similar chance of them staying. Besides, it's a professional competition and any player can up and leave for any reason. My point stands, if they are the best option in the current squad, they play, regardless of if they are Australian, kiwi or other. IMO Boyd isn't the best option so we are in agreement about him not being the starting half.

I guess we shouldn't be signing any players other than kiwis with no desire to go to Australia. But necessity demands it.

Yeah I completely understood what you were implying. But any sort of calculation of him leaving (or potentially) only reinforces my argument.

I’ll put it like this…..
Example;
Say Boyd is 97/100
And TMM is 95/100 (we both agree TMM is actually better in real life)
However the chances of them being here in 2027 (assuming the Warriors make both an offer)
Boyd 50% (it really is 50/50)
TMM 95%

There is no point INVESTING in Boyd for very little upside and high probable downside.
I’m not against having Australian players (Metcalf and Egan are in my team) As a matter of fact Australian player are CRUCIAL.
Let’s just not be stupid about it.
I think looking into the future at this stage is the most important thing.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Say Boyd is 97/100
And TMM is 95/100 (we both agree TMM is actually better in real life)

Your objective value thesis hinges on your subjective assessment of the value of these two players.

 

[Iridescent]

I did like this idea, but honestly I'd rather him gain some form in NSW cup and try take the 7 jersey off TMM.

He's capable of doing it and we need a long term organising 7 (TMM has always felt like a stop gap)

I don't really feel like he got much footy under his belt last year because of his bench versatility.

No he is not capable of doing it CHT is average at best and can plug a hole if required.

That's it.

He has had over 70 games of NRL, it's not going to happen.

 

[Tookey 2.0]

No one has mentioned CNK as a winger.
He played there previously for the Warriors prior to his departure to the Raiders …

For me, I think I'd like him to take that outside backs cover spot that Pompey has atm. Pompey was first drop when ever someone was injured last year and filled in admirably imo. CNK can be a better version of that for us in 2026.

CNK is off contract at the end of the year, where he's obvs a year older and slower. I'd resign him on 300k and have him first man up if Tuaupiki, Roger, Ali or Berry get injured

 

[Five&Last]

No he is not capable of doing it CHT is average at best and can plug a hole if required.

That's it.

He has had over 70 games of NRL, it's not going to happen.

He is capable of doing it

TMM is not exactly a high bar…

 

[Damo]

He is capable of doing it

TMM is not exactly a high bar…

Just for interests sake, stats at halfback for both players without context:

	Harris-Tevita	Martin​
Games	12	8
Tries	2	3
Try Assists	7	14
Line Breaks	1	3
LB Assists	3	12
Avg Tackles	19.5	19.5
Avg Missed Tackles	3	3.4
Avg Run Metres	54.2	92.4
Avg Kick Metres	214.3	285.6
Avg Forced Drop Outs	0.8	0.6​

 

[Neo]

Just for interests sake, stats at halfback for both players without context:

	Harris-Tevita	Martin​
Games	12	8
Tries	2	3
Try Assists	7	14
Line Breaks	1	3
LB Assists	3	12
Avg Tackles	19.5	19.5
Avg Missed Tackles	3	3.4
Avg Run Metres	54.2	92.4
Avg Kick Metres	214.3	285.6
Avg Forced Drop Outs	0.8	0.6​

When they were paired together in the halves I thought we were very solid defensively. They were making good reads and keeping the centre out wide.
I would rather have that than an extra 5m on a kick. People seem to remember a couple of missed kicks from CHT rather than the positives he brought. I would be happy with him at 6 if you had a creative fullback

 

[Inruin]

When they were paired together in the halves I thought we were very solid defensively. They were making good reads and keeping the centre out wide.
I would rather have that than an extra 5m on a kick. People seem to remember a couple of missed kicks from CHT rather than the positives he brought. I would be happy with him at 6 if you had a creative fullback

If CHT can stick to playing his role and not trying no look passes and flicks to no one he could be a very good half. Just seems to get too cocky and then makes mistakes because of it. LM is not as defensively strong as CHT but I think he provides more in other areas. Very solid depth though IMO.

 

[Iridescent]

When they were paired together in the halves I thought we were very solid defensively. They were making good reads and keeping the centre out wide.
I would rather have that than an extra 5m on a kick. People seem to remember a couple of missed kicks from CHT rather than the positives he brought. I would be happy with him at 6 if you had a creative fullback

Did you even read the stats you quoted.

He played a 1/3 more games than TMM and had half the try assists, 1/3 line breaks, 1/3 line break assists and just over half the run metres.

In what world can you think he is anything but a depth player and that is at his absolute best, at worst he single handedly loses us games on his own

 

[Noitall]

If CHT can stick to playing his role and not trying no look passes and flicks to no one he could be a very good half. Just seems to get too cocky and then makes mistakes because of it. LM is not as defensively strong as CHT but I think he provides more in other areas. Very solid depth though IMO.

Think CHT copped a rocket from Barnett during the season when he popped a poor pass to him and Barnett put it down. Just needed to take the tackle, Barnett didn’t look impressed. Thought he was really good apart from that and thought he and TMM had a bit of chemistry as a halves pairing

 

[Damo]

If CHT can stick to playing his role and not trying no look passes and flicks to no one he could be a very good half. Just seems to get too cocky and then makes mistakes because of it. LM is not as defensively strong as CHT but I think he provides more in other areas. Very solid depth though IMO.

Yes, Metcalfs speed makes him a point of difference in attack and gives him the edge for me over Chanel at 6.
TMM and Metcalf seem the best pairing for me.

 

[Inruin]

Think CHT copped a rocket from Barnett during the season when he popped a poor pass to him and Barnett put it down. Just needed to take the tackle, Barnett didn’t look impressed. Thought he was really good apart from that and thought he and TMM had a bit of chemistry as a halves pairing

Yes, when he sticks to doing the basics well. I can think of a few moments including when we made a break and he no look passes it to no one instead of either taking the tackle or doing that unconventional thing of actually looking where he is going to pass it.

 

[Noitall]

Yes, when he sticks to doing the basics well. I can think of a few moments including when we made a break and he no look passes it to no one instead of either taking the tackle or doing that unconventional thing of actually looking where he is going to pass it.

Would have kicked his arse too the losses with chances to win coming down to his kicking. He cut a despondent figure in the dressing room. Hope he’s not viewed as a kicker going forward, but I think he’ll be better for the way he felt from it also

 

[Teets]

I should add that I am not afraid of rebuilds and development seasons, so if for example these young guys are resilient and mature, if they are able to cop hidings and keep growing, then by all means use twenty twenty five to blood the lot of them without a care for short term results.

I actually genuinely feel like the Warriors haven’t had a real rebuild year. There’s a difference between have a shit year (which we’ve had many) and actually choosing a direction, committing to it, regardless of the results in one particular year.

Feel like Mark Grahams years were the closest we ever got to a genuine American sports style rebuild.

Big part of Ando's 01-03 run was Graham giving reps to young guys who probably weren't quite ready but because of the first grade reps were set up to experience success in Ando's time.

Tough balancing act though and setting foundations for the long term can cost a coach his job in the short term which is why you don't really see it here much.

American sports culture much more accepting of it, see the 76ers "trust the process" rallying cry, but bit of a foreign concept over here.