Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Inruin]

There’s a place for that but it has to be within the context of affordability, growing the economy and living within our means.

NZ arguably had the biggest social engineering with minimum wages increases, climate change regulations, banning exploration, anti farming regulations, debt based on non productive areas, etc, etc and surprise - we’ve got the longest, deepest recession in the world as we simply made ourselves uneconomic.

The unions and politicians calling for minimum wages increasing above inflation now should be made a laughing stock for their contribution to the mess we are in.

• 2014: $14.25
• 2015: $14.75
• 2016: $15.25
• 2017: $15.75
• 2018: $16.50
• 2019: $17.70
• 2020: $18.90
• 2021: $20
• 2022: $21.20
• 2023: $22.70
• 2024: $23.15
• 2025: $23.50

Minimum wage increases by year.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

• 2014: $14.25
• 2015: $14.75
• 2016: $15.25
• 2017: $15.75
• 2018: $16.50
• 2019: $17.70
• 2020: $18.90
• 2021: $20
• 2022: $21.20
• 2023: $22.70
• 2024: $23.15
• 2025: $23.50

Minimum wage increases by year.

Makes me laugh that people were trying to argue on here that this wasn’t a component of New Zealand’s inflation.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

The unions and politicians calling for minimum wages increasing above inflation now should be made a laughing stock for their contribution to the mess we are in.

Union demands destroyed Victoria

 

[Funky Ed Koosie]

Makes me laugh that people were trying to argue on here that this wasn’t a component of New Zealand’s inflation.

Yeah home gurl, imagine if our minimum wage was $7.25 and we had inflation at 7%+, but yes yes yes its the minimum wage that we should make the scape goat for inflation. You go gurl

 

[Noitall]

Makes me laugh that people were trying to argue on here that this wasn’t a component of New Zealand’s inflation.

Was a good thing there was still the emergency housing at the time that national introduced or there probably would have been many more homeless with inflation at its peak at 9.1% in 2022. Perhaps it had a bearing on inflation with most countries experiencing similar, but probably no more inflationary than the recent tax cuts given.

 

[Inruin]

Makes me laugh that people were trying to argue on here that this wasn’t a component of New Zealand’s inflation.

The big increases 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 appear to be largely ideological ones. Particularly with inflation low at those times. Non productive increases.

 

[juju]

Weren't we supposed to be back on track by now?

Not getting worse at a rate of knots?

Cue the excuses.... Yet it's the policy implemented by the government making it work.

The tax cuts now look stupendously stupid.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[dean]

Union demands destroyed Victoria

My son works in construction in Victoria only on Union sites. $70 an hour plus site allowance, travel time and super. Double time and time an a half after 8 hours. Works long hours, usually minimum 66 hours a week. First 3 months of this financial year earned $75k gross. Good money, chase it while young.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Yeah home gurl, imagine if our minimum wage was $7.25 and we had inflation at 7%+, but yes yes yes its the minimum wage that we should make the scape goat for inflation. You go gurl

So if the minimum wage has almost doubled in the past 10 years, what has been the effect on poverty, homelessness and wealth for middle class families?

The data would suggest it’s made exactly zero difference as all the wage increase has just been passed back into the cost of things.

Minimum wage increases making anyone better off is a myth. Show me the improved outcomes.

(I support minimum wage increases tied to inflation and productivity, just not the belief increases above inflation will ever achieve anything)

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

The big increases 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 appear to be largely ideological ones. Particularly with inflation low at those times. Non productive increases.

And surprise, surprise, followed directly by the longest recession in NZ history and the current longest recession in the world. Not a coincidence.

Ramping up wages tied to productivity gains get you rich.

Ramping up wages with no productivity gets you poor.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

So if the minimum wage has almost doubled in the past 10 years, what has been the effect on poverty, homelessness and wealth for middle class families?

The data would suggest it’s made exactly zero difference as all the wage increase has just been passed back into the cost of things.

Minimum wage increases making anyone better off is a myth. Show me the improved outcomes.

(I support minimum wage increases tied to inflation and productivity, just not the belief increases above inflation will ever achieve anything)

You are making points that are probably well beyond his pay grade. All you are doing is confusing him.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Was a good thing there was still the emergency housing at the time that national introduced or there probably would have been many more homeless with inflation at its peak at 9.1% in 2022. Perhaps it had a bearing on inflation with most countries experiencing similar, but probably no more inflationary than the recent tax cuts given.

It’s not just inflation, we’re in a long hard recession driving down peoples wealth and wages as a direct result of businesses struggling with high embedded costs and low profits.

You tried eating out lately? Great the staff get paid highly but bit depressing with restaurants empty, losing money, closing and laying off staff because the damn meals costs so much!

And the unions want the minimum wage ramped up again in the longest recession ever

 

[roguei]

Looking pretty bad ngl. Spending 16% more then predicted... Cutting large swathes out of goverment jobs e.g nurses, doctors, teachers and 1/9th of all wellington jobs. Will result in them all going onto social saftey nets like winz. So i suppose a large amount of that 16% is going towards that, which means once they move over to aus it'll be down. So at the very least i've gotta hope that uprooting people's lives will soon result in a better result for every other kiwi. But with NZ receiving less in tax/revenue by a large amount i cannot imagine just cutting down in spending is going to stop this downwards spiral. As our GDP may not even go up this year...

I simpily cannot imagine natinal keep to there promises of tax cuts after this.

 

[Inruin]

I said this was an election you really didn't want to win if you were National because we were in such a shit position with every key indicator going backwards and government spending out of control. Better they did though I think because the hole would have just gotten much, much deeper otherwise.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

My son works in construction in Victoria only on Union sites. $70 an hour plus site allowance, travel time and super. Double time and time an a half after 8 hours. Works long hours, usually minimum 66 hours a week. First 3 months of this financial year earned $75k gross. Good money, chase it while young.

Problem is that money gets added to the cost of the build which comes from taxpayers. No such thing as a free lunch

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Looking pretty bad ngl. Spending 16% more then predicted... Cutting large swathes out of goverment jobs e.g nurses, doctors, teachers and 1/9th of all wellington jobs. Will result in them all going onto social saftey nets like winz. So i suppose a large amount of that 16% is going towards that, which means once they move over to aus it'll be down. So at the very least i've gotta hope that uprooting people's lives will soon result in a better result for every other kiwi. But with NZ receiving less in tax/revenue by a large amount i cannot imagine just cutting down in spending is going to stop this downwards spiral. As our GDP may not even go up this year...

I simpily cannot imagine natinal keep to there promises of tax cuts after this.

In some ways the quote of Paul Keating comes back to me - “we’re having the recession we had to have”. But then again it could all have been avoided if the central banks hadn’t been so greedy, with the sheep running our Reserve Bank simply falling into step & letting debt & spending get out of control.

However I do agree with the view that we aren’t that far away from the inflection point. Interest rates are coming down while unproductive employment is declining - we’ll have repositioned to where we need to be within a few more months.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

You are making points that are probably well beyond his pay grade. All you are doing is confusing him.

If I really wanted to confuse him I would say a minimum wage increase without productivity gains actually makes you poorer and the government richer.

Say you work as a hairdresser and get a $2 per hour pay rise. The hairdressing company MUST charge $2 more per haircut. You get a haircut with your new found $2 extra and lose it paying $2 more for the haircut. No let gain or loss, your pay rise must equal increased cost. All basic economics.

Except, the $2 you get gets taxed so you only get $1.80 in your hand. And the hairdressers must charge GST on the extra $2 they must charge so you pay $2.30 extra for the haircut. You gain $1.80 and your costs have increased to $2.30 for a reduction in spending power… damn.

So if the pay rise is directly passed on to the consumer, once tax is deducted and GST is added the Govt makes a lot and the minimum wage worker ends up with LESS spending power.

Isn’t this the economy in NZ over the past few years? Record tax take, record minimum wage growth and REDUCED spending power?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Problem is that money gets added to the cost of the build which comes from taxpayers. No such thing as a free lunch

Except… Australia is hugely more productive - probably using cranes, prefabrication, mass production, etc, so they can pay high wages AND have reasonably priced homes (relatively) because each person gets a lot done.

The union demands and higher wages must be underpinned by productivity increases.

The unions should be fighting for their share of productivity gains (good) rather than unsupported wage gains based on inflation or comparable industries (unfounded).

 

[Teets]

I'd be all for a minimum wage freeze in NZ if the constant mortgage/rent increases for Kiwis froze with it.

 

[John Nick]

Except… Australia is hugely more productive - probably using cranes, prefabrication, mass production, etc, so they can pay high wages AND have reasonably priced homes (relatively) because each person gets a lot done.

The union demands and higher wages must be underpinned by productivity increases.

The unions should be fighting for their share of productivity gains (good) rather than unsupported wage gains based on inflation or comparable industries (unfounded).

Maritime Union Auckland has done exactly that. They are fortunate enough to have a boss who is reasonable trustworthy and approachable who has been involved actively with things like H & S, training,staff welfare etc.
Unlike the previous one who was a company stooge set up to break the Union and now the shit is all over the walls his own employers have dumped on him.
P.S. members have been paid accordingly and the POAL have been awarded with Industry Awards.
Win win all around