It is when other teams have worked your system out.
Which is what has happened so go to plan B
Staff Andrew Webster
- Thread starter tajhay
- Start date
- Coach Grade
- NRL Head Coach
- Date of Birth
- Jan 17, 1982
- Birth Location
- Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
- Nationality
- 🇦🇺 Australia
- Nickname
- Webby
- Warriors Debut Date
- Mar 3, 2023
- Warriors Debut Details
- March 3 2023, Round 1 vs Newcastle Knights at SKY Stadium, Wellington, New Zealand
- Warriors Years Active
- 2015
- 2016
- 2023
- 2024
- Signed From
- Penrith Panthers (Assistant Coach)
- Status
- Active
- Rugby League Project
- https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/coaches/andrew-webster/summary.html
Which is what has happened so go to plan B
Not suggesting that we won the premiership but he did help us climb the ladder with at least an opportunity to play finals and shoot for the top.
Personally, improvement was welcomed last year. So when we got cooking last year it was such a welcome change. But on reflection as we approached this year, I didn't think our roster had enough to go any better.
Walker won a premiership and made the Kangaroos as a centre (admittedly when much younger) but I can not see why he can't be our emergency centre cover on the bench?
Because he's vital to the middle now, there is no way I'd have him at centre.
I'd say run the rish with the outside backs and have Laban, because we need Barnett in the middle.
Sure he is....I'm talking about emergency cover so that it gives our bench more flexibility instead of carrying an outside back.
Beastmode
Contributor
It’s not some secret magic potion, this system everyone talks about
You can see every teams system and their go to players loud and clear week in week out…
If Walker is sharing half the game (40min) with Tohu then he can be the spine/centre cover outside the allocated 40min...
When we went on a roll and "peaked" last year we had Bunty starting (which is the same scenario this week) with Siro, Walker, Barney and Curran on the bench. Ale/Walker/Jazz/Zyon Maiu’u could be the closest we get to that right now.
Red zone attack is the key as we're still getting into good field positions
Coach gambled on playing SJ without training and lost, let's hope that changes this week with him training again.
Webby should be fine job security wise this year but he needs to be aware what the bottom line is and not coast it through, what if we win 5 games this year? Wooden spoon? Bottom 4? Don't give media and owners pressure and chance to make brain fart decisions. Me still hoping for a bounce back this season
When we went on a roll and "peaked" last year we had Bunty starting (which is the same scenario this week) with Siro, Walker, Barney and Curran on the bench. Ale/Walker/Jazz/Zyon Maiu’u could be the closest we get to that right now.
Red zone attack is the key as we're still getting into good field positions
Coach gambled on playing SJ without training and lost, let's hope that changes this week with him training again.
Webby should be fine job security wise this year but he needs to be aware what the bottom line is and not coast it through, what if we win 5 games this year? Wooden spoon? Bottom 4? Don't give media and owners pressure and chance to make brain fart decisions. Me still hoping for a bounce back this season
Where did I use the word system? Think of it more like plays in NFL.
Beastmode
Contributor
Ironically Webby has the same view as you
He said it continually last year
Didn’t believe in cleaning out rosters but to come up with a game plan that best suited the players available ….
It’s trying to find the right balance between structured vs non structural plays.. and that decision boils down to guys on the field … he could come up with the best game plan but if the players aren’t on board or have low IQ or can’t think properly under pressure all his good work goes undone
I was watching how Manly attacked last night and they'd have at least 2 tackles in a row where they throw shape, to say the left edge then back to the right on the next play, even in the middle of the park.
Whereas we seem to only throw shapes at the red zone (fair enough), but only once in slow motion lately.
Really wanna see Roger with the ball behind some shapes and see what happens
If our hit ups are so predictable in the middle of the field, they could spread it early like last year surprising the defense, almost feels like they're too fatigued or saving themselves for any plays that will hurt the defense
Whereas we seem to only throw shapes at the red zone (fair enough), but only once in slow motion lately.
Really wanna see Roger with the ball behind some shapes and see what happens
If our hit ups are so predictable in the middle of the field, they could spread it early like last year surprising the defense, almost feels like they're too fatigued or saving themselves for any plays that will hurt the defense
That's where my question of adjusting variables came from. Concrete can be jack hammered and repoured using a more pliable plan. And players can be improved or outed.
I guess I’m trying to say I really feel like we are trying to impose our will on games, rather than exploit opponents weaknesses. How many time have we seen an opposition player get hurt and the warriors direct the attack elsewhere.
I'm wondering about this.
They say about players that it's actually counter-productive to spend more and more time working on your weaknesses because you'll end up being average at everything. Rather, work on your strenghs and do whatever you can to avoid having your weaknesses exposed (move to the wing when defending a set cos you're a bit of a turnstile when tackling, don't move in so a player can beat you on your outside cos you're slow etc).
So: How much of our issues are, as you say, the team's system has been worked out versus the team not being as good at their system as they could/should be?
Another thought that's concerned me about the Warriors since Day 1: The "Sport is in the entertainment business" schtick. Are the players comfortable playing frankly boring and defensive in front of a crowd? I know they kind of got over it in 2017 with Mooks (our most boring and defensive season? by defensive I mean negative BTW, not saying our defence was particularly On), but still feel the Go-To is to try it. Which is fine when it's 50-50 likely or maybe even 40-60 depending on the game situation, but lower than that? Nope!
Yep its a killer to see our lack of killer instinct. Or ability to read the game as Jetts older brother put it
Ever Hopeful
Contributor
I thought I'd have a wee look at the bench use across the comp the last couple of rounds to see if that small snapshot supports what many are feeling.
The two numbers below are a) total interchange minutes used & b) minutes of the least used bench player
Rnd 8
Warriors 96/0
Titans 145/14
Dragons 174/32
Roosters 126/26
Storm 142/27
Rabbits 104/18
Manly 93/12
Eels 116/20
Tigers 114/22
Broncos 158/18
Panthers 90/0
Cowboys 160/17
Dolphins 156/30
Knights 105/6
Raiders 128/22
Sharks 102/13
Rnd 9
Rabbits 137/18
Panthers 112/8
Manly 107/18
Raiders 125/20
Broncos 189/38 (Mid-game injury to Reynolds)
Roosters 138/19
Bulldogs 114/0
Tigers 94/16
Titans 179/20 (early game injury to Boyd)
Storm 157/36 (Paps injury)
Cowboys 121/20
Dolphins 153/33
Knights 112/17
Warriors 93/0 (Capewell injured 25th minute)
Sharks 99/10
Dragons 128/12
A very small snapshot, but some interesting trends.
That ancient bastard Bennett has the most liberal use of the bench with all of his players getting near half a game each at least
The Pennies/Wahs/Dogs copy and paste systems are similar
The Warriors use the bench the least, and are the only team who is consistently not using their whole bench, even with injury.
Going back a round, the stats v the Dragons were staggering. In a game where we got destroyed through the middle we used just 60 minutes worth of interchange minutes. Having said that we had a bench that had Roache and Pompey on it.
Our bench was our strength last year. Our depth has been tested by injury in 2024, and this has undoubtedly had an impact. Since the start of the season this team has looked tired. We are defending too much off errors that seem to start accruing in the middle of the first half. Piggy backs etc. Fatigue/concentration/discipline/tactics?
The two numbers below are a) total interchange minutes used & b) minutes of the least used bench player
Rnd 8
Warriors 96/0
Titans 145/14
Dragons 174/32
Roosters 126/26
Storm 142/27
Rabbits 104/18
Manly 93/12
Eels 116/20
Tigers 114/22
Broncos 158/18
Panthers 90/0
Cowboys 160/17
Dolphins 156/30
Knights 105/6
Raiders 128/22
Sharks 102/13
Rnd 9
Rabbits 137/18
Panthers 112/8
Manly 107/18
Raiders 125/20
Broncos 189/38 (Mid-game injury to Reynolds)
Roosters 138/19
Bulldogs 114/0
Tigers 94/16
Titans 179/20 (early game injury to Boyd)
Storm 157/36 (Paps injury)
Cowboys 121/20
Dolphins 153/33
Knights 112/17
Warriors 93/0 (Capewell injured 25th minute)
Sharks 99/10
Dragons 128/12
A very small snapshot, but some interesting trends.
That ancient bastard Bennett has the most liberal use of the bench with all of his players getting near half a game each at least
The Pennies/Wahs/Dogs copy and paste systems are similar
The Warriors use the bench the least, and are the only team who is consistently not using their whole bench, even with injury.
Going back a round, the stats v the Dragons were staggering. In a game where we got destroyed through the middle we used just 60 minutes worth of interchange minutes. Having said that we had a bench that had Roache and Pompey on it.
Our bench was our strength last year. Our depth has been tested by injury in 2024, and this has undoubtedly had an impact. Since the start of the season this team has looked tired. We are defending too much off errors that seem to start accruing in the middle of the first half. Piggy backs etc. Fatigue/concentration/discipline/tactics?
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Strange cos according to Fonzie - Webby; our starting 13 gives us the best chance of winning
Craig Bellamy dominated the NRL and is the greatest modern era coach because he ignored the calls to change his system despite everyone in the competition throwing curve balls at his system, none more so than the Warriors.
Craig Bellamy's system is the most read and understood predictable template in NRL history, everyone, right down to us dumb fans know exactly what the Storm is going to do. Yet they keep on winning nearly every game in a season, they continue being a bench mark, even when they are thrashed in the big dance, what they have because of their system and predictability is incredible, we all know the script, yet they more than any win most games against anyone.
Craig Bellamy stuck by his system despite the NRL changing the rules of the game to undermine his system year on year. Anti wrestling rules like six agains and chicken wing bans did not deter Craig from keeping his grinding boring ass fun killing style of Kung Fu.
If we learned anything from the most structured and systematized club in the NRL it is that you should suck up your losses and continue to deliver consistent football for the long term investment in winning percentages.
The problem with the Warriors is not the system, the problem is that they do not have the pedigree to suck it up and soldier on when their system is failing.
My issue with the Warriors is that at the first sign of trouble they start to fail at delivering the system, my argument is that rather than abandoned that right edge attack when it fails, is that they need to try harder and push at it longer and accurately to to find the short fall.
Quite simply, when we are stopped on our right edge attack we should see it as a win anyway. Because a game plan that put you there is a winning game plan, that you did not score is not the problem, it is just what happens in a percentage and outcomes based exercise, but the more we run that move in a game it means the more time we have won all the metrics to get us there in the first place.
This is why i can see Webster is still an excellent coach, we are inches and yards away from being a success. The template, the plan, the structures are great, this team needs to lean into the metrics and continue.
The opposite of a lot of what I read here about abandoning the plan and and reinventing the wheel.
Swimming up stream around here, but I love the fact that Webster is pissing off lots of fans by sticking to his own ideas. I believe that is the long term solve of our inconsistency.
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The Penrith coaching trio has the exact same usage lol
Honestly our peak last year was when Metcalf was fit and Afoa starting, with 4 bench forwards, when the bench went down to 3 forwards we went really meh for over a month and the only great game we played was the Knights knock out game
Webby needs to design the gameplan to our players like he said, which is not a 3-forward bench
