Politics 🤡 Donald Trump

[sup42]

I wonder why the Ukrainians want a ceasefire now? Absolutey mystery that I have no opinion on.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-forces-advance-further-kursk-war-bloggers-say-2025-03-10/

Actually they wanted one before Russia invaded their country.

 

[sup42]

Wonder how many companies Trump and his circle of friends shorted on the stock market before Trump intentionally tried to tank it?

 

[sup42]

Disagree.

I think humans have natural morals that religion simply latched into and formalised.

Treat others as you want to be treated; hard work gets rewards; what goes around comes around; the power of positivity.

The problem is when we have different versions of morals.

Give me an example of different versions of morals? I suspect we have no common discourse and have different understandings of language.

 

[MaybeTop8]

We have a radical lack of Christian values problem.

Really??? Really???

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Give me an example of different versions of morals? I suspect we have no common discourse and have different understandings of language.

Some conflicting examples:

1 - protect your children at all costs - then there’s the Kahui twins and stepdad statistics

2 - were all equal - come cultures males are above females

3 - dont murder - phycopaths

4 - dont love a close relative - unless your from Gore

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Really??? Really???

The biggest determinant of success in life has statistically been shown to stay married, not have children if not married and not have a child as a teenager.

Good religious ideals that we have moved away from and society is poorer for it (I’m not religious)

 

[MaybeTop8]

The biggest determinant of success in life has statistically been shown to not divorce and not have a child as a teenager.

Good fundamental religious ideals that we have moved away from and society is poorer for it (I’m not religious)

Fundamental religious ideals are different to christian morals are different to the degrees of extremism in Christianity are different to a societal respectful morality etc.

I'm more interested in the Christian morals behind disinformation

 

[sup42]

Some conflicting examples:

1 - protect your children at all costs - then there’s the Kahui twins and stepdad statistics

2 - were all equal - come cultures males are above females

3 - dont murder - phycopaths

4 - dont love a close relative - unless your from Gore

Sorry but you were asked to provide examples of the conflicting morals you mentioned.
None of those examples have anything to do with morals that are in conflict with one another.

I was genuinely interested to hear what you had to say about how human beings different practices of morality leads to conflict.

What you supplied was examples of Immoral behavior. Which is why in my original reply I stated I doubt we have a shared understanding of the English language which will allow a flourishing conversation intellectually.

Thanks anyway, no harm no foul.

 

[Noitall]

In the couple of times I have attended church, it’s the musical side that I enjoyed more than any sermons or message filled stories. One occasion was in Samoa because my ex wife’s family was religious, particularly her father. Beautiful singing and harmonising that really is pleasant. Gospel music has been huge in the African American community and a voice in the civil rights movement and again beautiful to listen to. I’m not against church or anything that works for the individual but a world where it’s enforced I couldn’t agree with. Also think there needs to be a real caution in the church attended and research because some are nothing more than cults. I’ve always had a hard time with tithing too, especially where it’s required. To me your time is the most precious thing you can donate

 

[Worried2Death]

Then it cant be natural then can it

Are you saying cultures shape moralities and we're born with no innate moral instincts if there's no God?

 

[sup42]

In the couple of times I have attended church, it’s the musical side that I enjoyed more than any sermons or message filled stories. One occasion was in Samoa because my ex wife’s family was religious, particularly her father. Beautiful singing and harmonising that really is pleasant. Gospel music has been huge in the African American community and a voice in the civil rights movement and again beautiful to listen to. I’m not against church or anything that works for the individual but a world where it’s enforced I couldn’t agree with. Also think there needs to be a real caution in the church attended and research because some are nothing more than cults. I’ve always had a hard time with tithing too, especially where it’s required. To me your time is the most precious thing you can donate

One of my sons is being groomed by an aggressive church at the moment. I tried to raise all my children to be free thinkers.

The main attraction for him in this Church is the girl who introduced him to it, she is stunning in any mans language, looks like a film star.

All I can do is support him and his decisions whatever they may be, even though deep down inside I resent that he is being ministered to daily to convert to this well known very aggressive religion.

As for the singing, I can relate to that. I have belonged to competition choirs, there is something spiritual in singing as a group which I believe is ancestral, it pre-dates organized religion and is deep withing our dna as a species.

 

[Worried2Death]

One of my sons is being groomed by an aggressive church at the moment. I tried to raise all my children to be free thinkers.

The main attraction for him in this Church is the girl who introduced him to it, she is stunning in any mans language, looks like a film star.

All I can do is support him and his decisions whatever they may be, even though deep down inside I resent that he is being ministered to daily to convert to this well known very aggressive religion.

As for the singing, I can relate to that. I have belonged to competition choirs, there is something spiritual in singing as a group which I believe is ancestral, it pre-dates organized religion and is deep withing our dna as a species.

The things we do for love. I got groomed into a Bob Dylan cult because of a girl who looked like Joan Baez, then she dumped me and ran off with a Bob Marley fan.

 

[sup42]

The things we do for love. I got groomed into a Bob Dylan cult because of a girl who looked like Joan Baez, then she dumped me and ran off with a Bob Marley fan.

No woman no cry.

 

[Noitall]

One of my sons is being groomed by an aggressive church at the moment. I tried to raise all my children to be free thinkers.

The main attraction for him in this Church is the girl who introduced him to it, she is stunning in any mans language, looks like a film star.

All I can do is support him and his decisions whatever they may be, even though deep down inside I resent that he is being ministered to daily to convert to this well known very aggressive religion.

As for the singing, I can relate to that. I have belonged to competition choirs, there is something spiritual in singing as a group which I believe is ancestral, it pre-dates organized religion and is deep withing our dna as a species.

Hopefully if he feels like it’s the place for him, it’s for the right reasons rather than pursuing a lady. And if he and her become an item, it’s not required by her for him to participate if it’s not for him. The ex wife I referred to was of that persuasion, not devoted though. I also know of a guy who’s not religious at all and his wife’s a Jehovah’s Witness

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Are you saying cultures shape moralities and we're born with no innate moral instincts if there's no God?

It was in response to Wiz's statement. It cant be both natural and differing..

An aversion to killing is about the only innate moral that man displays. Its actually takes quite a bit of conditioning to get a man to kill another.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

But when you talk about things like dont rape woman, is that a natural moral? Is that displayed in the animal kingdom? Is it represented in other cultures or religions?

 

[Worried2Death]

It was in response to Wiz's statement. It cant be both natural and differeing..

An aversion to killing is about the only innate moral that man displays. Its actually takes quite a bit of conditioning to get a man to kill another.

Question, what about the percentage of outliers who don't need any conditioning, psychos etc who have no innate moral objection to killing. Do they make the best soldiers?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Question, what about the percentage of outliers who don't need any conditioning, psychos etc who have no innate moral objection to killing. Do they make the best soldiers?

Psycho's dont feel fear and engage in risk taking behavior. Sociopaths dont display the normal pro-social morals.

Psychos would make better soldiers. Sociopaths would make better killers.

Ask @sup42, hes been at the pointy end.

 

[sup42]

It was in response to Wiz's statement. It cant be both natural and differing..

An aversion to killing is about the only innate moral that man displays. Its actually takes quite a bit of conditioning to get a man to kill another.

There are people who are born to kill. Met a few. No conditioning required. But if you take them out of the equation your point is sound for the other ninety nine percent.

I looked after a guy who as a teen with no dodgy background whatsoever, left his sisters bed room window open so he could climb in from the outside at night and make it look like an intruder.

He was fifteen at that time, and from England, so it was a shock in little old NZ in the early 80's when the cops realized this polite toffee speaking Pommy kid staged his sisters Murder.

So why did he do it? He said in an interview that he liked his sister, he just wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone and she was at hand next door, and that he was aware no one would look at the fifteen year old sibling.

This guy was in his forties when I met him, if he were in the prison system he would have long been released, decades earlier.

But because he was grabbed by Psyche they never wanted him on the streets again.

Which is interesting when you consider how your average Joe thinks that a killer under a mental health banner is there to fake madness and get an early release.....

 

[Worried2Death]

But when you talk about things like dont rape woman, is that a natural moral? Is that displayed in the animal kingdom? Is it represented in other cultures or religions?

I'd say pair bonding is important for survival in most cultures and rape is generally amoral, hence it's often been a tool to brutalise an enemy when conditioned for war, where peacetime morality is somewhat reversed.