John Nick
Contributor
Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics
- Thread starter wizard of Tauranga
- Start date
NZWarriors.com
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- #13,122
How many containers go across per day? I don’t honestly know?
John Nick
Contributor
Dont know either.But theres approx. 4000 vessel crossings per year & 40000 wagons crossings per year. As I understand.
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- Thread starter
- #13,124
The ultimate is a vehicle bridge and rail bridge between islands.
The reality is cost, what NZ can afford and where we spend our taxpayer dollars with best bang for buck.
Tragic
Contributor
Doesn't sound that bad from an overall project. By the time you add in cpi across all those years it's probably a $40M project that's blown out to $50M.Speaking of costs and hospitals:
New mental health hospital in Rotorua goes up $17m to $50m.
Started by Labour, it builds a 16 beds unit to replace an existing 14 bed unit. So 2 extra beds for $50m.
That’s where the $2b mental health budget has been frittered away to - $25m per bed.
That’s more than the total funding to Mike King over the next 4 years for 1 extra bed, when King helps 15,000 young people per year...
'Way overdue': Mental health unit budget rises by $17m, completion further delayed
The unit was initially expected to be finished in 2023.www.nzherald.co.nz
That's probably a low blowout (25%) for a government project and normal for any building project.
My issue with it is why does it cost that much to build a facility in the first place? It's the same with prisons, the cost per person to build is totally out of whack. Costs more than building a stand alone house for each person.
Very few leaders in the Western world are that smart. Look what their respective leaders have done to Australia, UK, France, Germany etc...
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Tragic
Contributor
If the government had a strategy and could tell us how they want us to make our money in 5, 10 and 25 years they could work out the cost/ benefit of each option.
If there is a payback then spending on infrastructure is a good thing if you have public servants that can actually manage a project to scope and cost.
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- #13,128
This is the issue!
$3m per bed provided. You could build a mansion per patient for that! Admittedly it’s a hospital grade specialist fitout but just look at the concept plans and the architectural elements are very strong. Not just a basic fit for purpose building.
And with economies of scale could you make it a 20 person facility for only a few million more?
Where’s
miket12 with his opinion on the design and $50m cost for 16 beds?
John Nick
Contributor
Wow! A bridge or two sounds great.Obviously never gonna happen.We will be saying in a few years time why didnt we do this properly the first time as we have said many times before cue( Auckland Harbour bridge). Just another infrastructure component which will have to be sorted by another Govt. another day.
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- #13,130
Democracy forces us to revert to mean. The average person in the western world prioritises comfort over pushing hard and doing what it takes to be successful and create wealth.
Just look at the politics of jealousy; dislike of corporate; the 1%; business people; landlords; etc.
Once we have comfort we vote for quality of life and to become a retirement village economy rather than dynamic with lots of growth and change.
We have embedded that with our policies that are pretty anti change (RMA, etc) that lock us into a low growth/ low GDP economy.
- Thread starter
- #13,131
To be fair the Cook Straight has massive technical challenges, but rich economies would be planning on that sort of project.
We just don’t chase the high economic GDP so have a downward spiral of expectations.
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- #13,134
This.
Long term planning, sharing the vision and people will buy in.
I was a big fan of Clarkes knowledge based economy in the 2000’s. Even if it was only partly successful, it was something well thought out that you could back with the resources and investment to push it.
I’m hopeful after the repair job on the economy, National shares a vision. They have said they want to lift us to Australia’s wage levels; share the vision of how to get there so we can pull together as a country to make it happen!
I have no problem with the place needing a rebuild. I also am not overly surprised about the cost over run given the inability for costing accurately on so many other projects. I just cant get my head around why its only being built to cater for two extra beds and then spend more money later to potentially extend it to 20?This is the issue!
$3m per bed provided. You could build a mansion per patient for that! Admittedly it’s a hospital grade specialist fitout but just look at the concept plans and the architectural elements are very strong. Not just a basic fit for purpose building.
And with economies of scale could you make it a 20 person facility for only a few million more?
Where’s
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Never worked on a health facility which included the needs for beds but, as a comparison, in today's money, it cost Sudima Hotel group just over $81 mil to build a 200-bed hotel (excluding purchasing the land) in 2018 in central Auckland.This is the issue!
$3m per bed provided. You could build a mansion per patient for that! Admittedly it’s a hospital grade specialist fitout but just look at the concept plans and the architectural elements are very strong. Not just a basic fit for purpose building.
And with economies of scale could you make it a 20 person facility for only a few million more?
Where’s
Extract that out and that's $400,000 per bed for the hotel as opposed to $2.5 mill per bed for a MHU.
Also have to remember that there would be a far greater need for staff facilities and possible accommodation for them as opposed to a hospital.
A better comparison would be the Manukau Super Clinic which does include accommodation for short-term staying.
There's also a huge additional cost in not getting it right in the first place.
The Manukau SuperClinic (where a lot of the outpatients and elective surgery in the Manukau DHB occur) included 10 operating rooms and 78 short stay beds when it was built in 1998 for $32 mil (in today's money). Then in 2018, $22 mil (again in today's money) was spent recladding it. It's now being expanded with a $220 mil budget to move both Middlemore's and the Otara spinal unit to what will be called the Manukau Health Park. It will have four additional operating rooms, 30 more outpatient rooms, improved radiology and breast screening, and an expanded renal dialysis service.
- Thread starter
- #13,137
Would it be better to use a rural location (or island) like they used in the old days and spread out low tech rather than making fit on an existing location?
Surely you could build a whole compound for say 50 people for say $1m each?
John Nick
Contributor
Hmm. Middle of the Cook Strait and then we would only have to build 2 smaller bridges. I will close the door
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We could even host the America’s Cup in the cook strait, and use a budget set aside for the Cup to build a viewing platform (accessible from both the south and north).
It would basically be a free bridge
John Nick
Contributor
But there wouldn't be any cash left for TNZ
