Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Worried2Death]

Just in. Jenny Shipley says David Seymour is inviting civil war. Seymour doubts her judgment.

 

[dean]

Just in. Jenny Shipley says David Seymour is inviting civil war. Seymour doubts her judgment.

So do Mainzeal shareholders.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Wasn't rabbi Yesu an impoverished Palestinian subsistence worker?

No. Joseph was a builder/carpenter and Jesus from 12-30 apparently was one too before starting preaching. Carpenters may have been working poor/or middle class depending, but they certainly werent subsistence farmers/hunters..

 

[Worried2Death]

No. Joseph was a builder/carpenter and Jesus from 12-30 apparently was one too before starting preaching. Carpenters may have been working poor/or middle class depending, but they certainly werent subsistence farmers/hunters..

Yeah maybe, no mention of him being a tradie himself though, more likely a rabbinical student. Anyway I doubt this is important right now.

 

[juju]

Just in. Jenny Shipley says David Seymour is inviting civil war. Seymour doubts her judgment.

Bolger commented similar
Key came out saying it's bad policy. English is the only living tory ex PM to not pass comment.

The truth is he simply can't furnish any political, academic or legal support in support of the bill.

Seymour is so petulant in response, he should be careful given his penchant for messaging school kids.

Tomorrow should be interesting.

 

[Inruin]

Bolger commented similar
Key came out saying it's bad policy. English is the only living tory ex PM to not pass comment.

The truth is he simply can't furnish any political, academic or legal support in support of the bill.

Seymour is so petulant in response, he should be careful given his penchant for messaging school kids.

Tomorrow should be interesting.

I can understand the negative reaction to this bill but I would have thought given the support against it that Maori would potentially welcome the debate. it would further strengthen their position and put to bed any more debate for decades?

 

[miket12]

My brother loves genealogical stuff and made up a family tree using one of the genealogical sites on the Interweb. I'm always getting notifications from it and pretty much ignore them. But there was one that came in that caught my attention. I have a cousin in Hamilton "G", so has a very uncommon first name.... she apparently found out that there are less than 50 people with that name in NZ.

Anyway, I got an email saying that there was a match with a person from Hamilton (but with a difference surname) with the same first name who happened to be a 24th cousin of mine. Given the first name and that this person was from the same city as my cousin, I had a look online to see who it was. She wasn't my first cousin but I was related to her in that my 23rd grand father, from the Danish royal family, was the brother of her 24th grandfather who was also of the Danish royal family and whose grand daughter married into the British royal family and one of her descendants was Henry the VII.

Turns out that my 21st grandfather, going back to the 1,200's-1,300's, was the King of Denmark.... not that he was a good king.... everyone kept rebelling against him and he bankrupted the country in order to live a lavish lifestyle during a famine.

Then I looked a little bit further into this 24th cousin and found out there was a much closer link.... she is related to me through marriage. My first cousin "G" has a brother "A" who is married to the sister of this woman who shares the same name. So, my cousin "A" has not only a sister with this really unique name but also a sister-in-law.

 

[juju]

I can understand the negative reaction to this bill but I would have thought given the support against it that Maori would potentially welcome the debate. it would further strengthen their position and put to bed any more debate for decades?

The issue is Maori have been excluded by Seymour in the formulation of the bill & he's chose to ignore all legal and academic advice around it.

You can't in good faith propose to change the treaty partnership without having the other partner at the table the whole time.

 

[snake77]

Mate, my mother just had a dna test done and the sliver of Jewish we were supposed to have is absent. Evidently a father was replaced by a milkman or something a few generations ago

There was some good videos on YT with various celebrities or outspoken people getting them.

An African American guy who has complained about his family being slaves and wanting reparations ended up having a relative who was a slave owner. Others that have complained about racism. Only being the victim mind you despite some of their comments being racist. The sight of their face changing when they got told was gold. Some speaking on authority due to their ancestry only to find out it is wrong.

This is a good reminder that racism can be a bit more complex. A person we have spoken about in this thread or the one on the old site I know of an incident on them abusing someone. The person was helping fix something for her and she was wanting the white c... out of her house. An intimidating situation for the person due to them being young and there being a lot of people around. She just took him by his appearance. He is part maori.

Growing up a few of my friends would get abused from different maori guys and I'd point out to them "you know he's maori right?". Sometimes that would led to an apology, sometimes they go straight to sucking up and asking them about their family.

My wifes mother was interested in it (ancestery). More who you are related to. My mother would have been the person I'd ask when I'd get Facebook requests from family I'd never met. If you have ever had to get clearance it requires a lot of background checks or questions on where you have lived, family. I think one question was when your parents arrived in NZ. My mother could have answered the exact date. Now I'm stuck with my father whose response would be the year and it was raining.

 

[snake77]

The issue is Maori have been excluded by Seymour in the formulation of the bill & he's chose to ignore all legal and academic advice around it.

You can't in good faith propose to change the treaty partnership without having the other partner at the table the whole time.

I've mentioned in the past some of the policies the parties have proposed haven't been sold well to the public. Labours' capital gains tax is a good example as they couldn't explain how it would work.

I don't watch the news a lot due to having young kids. The TV has been on cartoons or other things the last few years instead of the news. From what I have seen. Seymour hasn't sold this too well. he's mentioned having conversations about the treaty.

The key thing is the treaty is different to the CGT I mentioned. That is a policy the government can change/implement.

The treaty should be looked at as a deal. One side can't change it. Again if that is not what he is trying to achieve he hasn't explained it well. Instead it is creating a lot of division.

 

[juju]

I've mentioned in the past some of the policies the parties have proposed haven't been sold well to the public. Labours' capital gains tax is a good example as they couldn't explain how it would work.

I don't watch the news a lot due to having young kids. The TV has been on cartoons or other things the last few years instead of the news. From what I have seen. Seymour hasn't sold this too well. he's mentioned having conversations about the treaty.

The key thing is the treaty is different to the CGT I mentioned. That is a policy the government can change/implement.

The treaty should be looked at as a deal. One side can't change it. Again if that is not what he is trying to achieve he hasn't explained it well. Instead it is creating a lot of division.

Another important distinction is, the treaty is a deal between two parties, but which one of the parties has acknowledged for decades that it has breached from the outset.
The inequality statistics are pretty stark even now. Fix those and... maybe have the talk...

 

[dean]

If you have ever had to get clearance it requires a lot of background checks or questions on where you have lived, family. I think one question was when your parents arrived in NZ. My mother could have answered the exact date. Now I'm stuck with my father whose response would be the year and it was raining.

Could you please explain what you mean by this?
What is the clearance for?
Thanks.

 

[dean]

Another important distinction is, the treaty is a deal between two parties, but which one of the parties has acknowledged for decades that it has breached from the outset.
The inequality statistics are pretty stark even now. Fix those and... maybe have the talk...

The only major iwi not to settle is Ngapuhi.
Successive govts have wanted to settle, they are not holding up settlement.

 

[snake77]

Could you please explain what you mean by this?
What is the clearance for?
Thanks.

That is classified.
When you work or do work for specific government departments they do background checks. Not just for if you can get on the premises but also what you can access. Parliament in general would likely have this.

The example I used was that when my mother was alive I could get accurate answers. Now with my father I get the year and the weather.

 

[defensivebomb]

I don’t understand the Maori text, but here is the full English text.

THE TREATY OF WAITANGI

Her Majesty Victoria Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland regarding with Her Royal Favor the Native Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and anxious to protect their just Rights and Property and to secure to them the enjoyment of Peace and Good Order has deemed it necessary in consequence of the great number of Her Majesty's Subjects who have already settled in New Zealand and the rapid extension of Emigration both from Europe and Australia which is still in progress to constitute and appoint a functionary properly authorized to treat with the Aborigines of New Zealand for the recognition of Her Majesty's sovereign authority over the whole or any part of those islands - Her Majesty therefore being desirous to establish a settled form of Civil Government with a view to avert the evil consequences which must result from the absence of the necessary Laws and Institutions alike to the native population and to Her subjects has been graciously pleased to empower and to authorize me William Hobson a Captain in Her Majesty's Royal Navy Consul and Lieutenant Governor of such parts of New Zealand as may be or hereafter shall be ceded to Her Majesty to invite the confederated and independent Chiefs of New Zealand to concur in the following Articles and Conditions.

Article the first

The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the separate and independent Chiefs who have not become members of the Confederation cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess over their respective Territories as the sole sovereigns thereof.

Article the second

Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs, yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Preemption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf.

Article the third

In consideration thereof Her Majesty the Queen of England extends to the Natives of New Zealand Her royal protection and imparts to them all the Rights and Privileges of British Subjects.

[signed] W. Hobson Lieutenant Governor

Now therefore We the Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand being assembled in Congress at Victoria in Waitangi and We the Separate and Independent Chiefs of New Zealand claiming authority over the Tribes and Territories which are specified after our respective names, having been made fully to understand the Provisions of the foregoing Treaty, accept and enter into the same in the full spirit and meaning thereof in witness of which we have attached our signatures or marks at the places and the dates respectively specified.

Done at Waitangi this Sixth day of February in the year of Our Lord one thousand eight hundred and forty.

The Chiefs of the Confederation

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Another important distinction is, the treaty is a deal between two parties, but which one of the parties has acknowledged for decades that it has breached from the outset.
The inequality statistics are pretty stark even now. Fix those and... maybe have the talk...

If Māori wish to have sovereignty why are their cultural issues the responsibility of the crown to fix?

 

[tyrael]

Still waiting for the party that's tough on crime. We've gone from ram raids to stabbings.

Teens arrested after supermarket security guard stabbed

The guard was stabbed after she confronted one of the teens about stealing.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[Worried2Death]

ACT agents try to wind up the hikoi, gets arrested

An agitator gets aggravation. Video 2 | By Brutal Q Watch | Facebook

An agitator gets aggravation. Video 2

www.facebook.com

 

[Noitall]

Still waiting for the party that's tough on crime. We've gone from ram raids to stabbings.

Teens arrested after supermarket security guard stabbed

The guard was stabbed after she confronted one of the teens about stealing.

www.rnz.co.nz

Must say I was thinking this to myself the other when reading about a meth dealer avoiding jail, needing to get home to feed pets

 

[John Nick]

Must say I was thinking this to myself the other when reading about a meth dealer avoiding jail, needing to get home to feed pets

Not much has changed