General YOUR 2023 WARRIORS TEAM

[john nick]

Yes. Sky Sport are showing it. Says 7:45 with 8pm kickoff.

Cheers jonesy101

 

[Jaffa J]

In his first year his value was immense. 20 try/ try assists in 16 games. Attacking threat and not really exposed in defence so much. We prioritised blooding him and gifting him experience to the point we lost Roger Tuivasa-Sheck. We treated him very well.

Last year his attacking contribution was limited. 14 try/ try assists in 22 games. Plus he was exposed in defence. He seemed off. Then he signed for the broncos and hadn’t repay our faith.

All good - he had family to look out for. It’s pro sport. But the goodwill towards him disappeared. In hindsight he was to green for first grade and we paid for it to develop him then he left before we got the benefit.

It was expected he would have some drop-off from his first season second year syndrome is real and he's a young kid

He had many faults but there others on the team who deserve just as much blame as for the off-field situation obviously I wished he stayed but it is what it is but just because he's gone I won't downplay what impact he did have good/bad we did our best to keep him

 

[jonesy101]

He was still second for try assists behind Shaun Johnson.

Not surprising given we had a revolving door of players at standoff.

 

[Mr Brownstone]

Not surprising given we had a revolving door of players at standoff.

Ok well 31st overall. Look you guys can put all the blame you want onto him, but it will be interesting to see who gets it in 2023 if we are running bottom 4. Hope we don’t however suspect we will.

 

[Toookey]

This forum loves a scapegoat. So Walsh 29 try causes (4 better than Gutho for what it’s worth), along with Dallin Watene-Zelezniak 22 try causes, Shaun Johnson 19 and Montoya 18. Based on the 200 points hit from Walsh that some of you believe, that extends to 600 points impact from our 4 worst try cause offenders - must mean that the rest of our team were Panthers quality on defence… what a load of shit.

I don't think you can say "RW is the sole reason we let 200 points in", but jeeze he really did contribute to a lot of our issues.
I understand that he's the last line of defence, and if an opposition player is one on one with him that usually means someone else has made an error to lead up to that, but Reece's defence was SO poor that almost anytime a player was 1 on 1 with him it was a guaranteed 4 or 6 points. That's not the case with any other team in the comp, even Daine Laurie for the Tigers wasn't as bad...
Again, RW is young and was guilty of trying too hard at times and creating errors, but a lot of mistakes he made either directly resulted in points for the other team or heaped more unnecessary pressure on a team who wasn't able to handle that much.

I think if you HAD to heap shit on a single player who's efforts resulted in the highest cost of points across the competition, you probably can't go past RW. I'm not sure how many it was, but I'm guessing it was more than any one player in the comp last year.

 

[The Truth]

The reason we let in so many points is because we got steamrolled every set in the middle in ever single game. It was as if it was a game plan to allow them to get up quickly and us to have no line speed whatsoever on defence.
Nah, let them come to us bro

 

[wizards rage]

Ok well 31st overall. Look you guys can put all the blame you want onto him, but it will be interesting to see who gets it in 2023 if we are running bottom 4. Hope we don’t however suspect we will.

In a conversation about the worse defensive team in the comp, you have to look at the contributors and work out how to improve these.

Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad adds a lot within a squad where defence was an huge issue. His physicality can help where Reece was still physically developing.

The experience we have added to the team can only help when we were giving away to many green errors.

 

[Mr Brownstone]

I don't think you can say "RW is the sole reason we let 200 points in", but jeeze he really did contribute to a lot of our issues.
I understand that he's the last line of defence, and if an opposition player is one on one with him that usually means someone else has made an error to lead up to that, but Reece's defence was SO poor that almost anytime a player was 1 on 1 with him it was a guaranteed 4 or 6 points. That's not the case with any other team in the comp, even Daine Laurie for the Tigers wasn't as bad...
Again, RW is young and was guilty of trying too hard at times and creating errors, but a lot of mistakes he made either directly resulted in points for the other team or heaped more unnecessary pressure on a team who wasn't able to handle that much.

I think if you HAD to heap shit on a single player who's efforts resulted in the highest cost of points across the competition, you probably can't go past RW. I'm not sure how many it was, but I'm guessing it was more than any one player in the comp last year.

I’ll give you an alternative - Dallin Watene-Zelezniak. Tackle efficiency only slightly better, try causes still bad despite only patrolling one side of the field. Errors slightly better but from a less difficult position and wasn’t trying to force passes in attack to try to create points. Also didn’t contribute on the try assists like Walsh did. So just as a start, I would argue Dallin Watene-Zelezniak’s net negative impact was at least as bad. However that’s just stats, I would put the blame on the whole team, they were all fairly terrible - without a couple of dubious ref decisions against the Tigers, we were spoon quality last season.

 

[Mullayo]

This forum loves a scapegoat. So Walsh 29 try causes (4 better than Gutho for what it’s worth), along with Dallin Watene-Zelezniak 22 try causes, Shaun Johnson 19 and Montoya 18. Based on the 200 points hit from Walsh that some of you believe, that extends to 600 points impact from our 4 worst try cause offenders - must mean that the rest of our team were Panthers quality on defence… what a load of shit.

Sort of seems approximately right. I'm actually making an in-depth team defence metric as we speak.

Walsh missed a (Worriers) team leading 56 tackles overall at 35.2% miss rate. The worst defensive FB in the league. He also had 38 errors, good for 2nd equal in the entire NRL with another overrated Bronco Cobbo. That's 1.7 errors per game, folks!

Dallin Watene-Zelezniak missed 21 times but barely breaks a sweat, making a paltry 4.3 tackles a game, for a 21.2% whiff rate. He also has 24 errors in only 18 games, ranked equal 25th worst overall in the entire NRL.

Kosi is next worst with a 24.5% whiff rate and 16 errors in only 12 games for the same ErPG rate as Dallin Watene-Zelezniak with 1.3.

Montoya (26.9 MT%) with only 3.8 completed tackles per game and 10 errors (ErPG of .6) is another one I'm off.
Vailea is just as bad with a 27.3 whiff rate and a .8 ErPG

Best of the bad bunch, Pompey (18.2 MT%) is crap too with 15 errors. Boys, I'm looking at Rocco Berry with rose-coloured glasses. Come back all is forgiven! Rocco actually averages 15.4 tackles per game and a 9.6 MT%. Seriously, the guy plays like a 2nd rower with an okay .6 ErPG.

The sad facts are our back 5 were the worst in the NRL by a country mile. We should have kept Hiku for sure.

 

[Wrighty]

This forum loves a scapegoat. So Walsh 29 try causes (4 better than Gutho for what it’s worth), along with Dallin Watene-Zelezniak 22 try causes, Shaun Johnson 19 and Montoya 18. Based on the 200 points hit from Walsh that some of you believe, that extends to 600 points impact from our 4 worst try cause offenders - must mean that the rest of our team were Panthers quality on defence… what a load of shit.

Here is a back of the envelope analysis

Reece Walsh 29 try causes
The TRY was his fault 29 times according to the NRL stats people
29 * (4 points plus 70% conversion rate) = 29* 5.4 = 156.6 points
I would also suggest his stupid pea hearted try causes deflated the team and caused a second subsequent try INDIRECTLY 50% of the time - ADD another 156.6*50%=78.3 points
Reece Walsh costed us 78.3+156.6 = 234 of -700 points against the warriors

HE WAS THE WORST OFFENDER

The fact that Dallin Watene-Zelezniak caused 22 tries makes him second worst offender and same blame lies at his feet also. Dallin Watene-Zelezniak causing 22 tries or Guth leaking a million tries does not invalidate the fact that Reece was a turnstile on defence and without whom our points against would be -470


We need to leak less points




DID REECE WALSH COST US 200 POINTS OF THE -700 LAST YEAR? Hell Yes
Were others to blame for the other -500. Hell Yes
We shouldn't dare suggest that just replacing Reece with Charnze will solve our problems by itself

 

[Wrighty]

The sad facts are our back 5 were the worst in the NRL by a country mile. We should have kept Hiku for sure.

Defensive coach telling the wings to jam in 20 metres all the time was a key cause behind all of that as well.

 

[tajhay]

so we are not only counting his try causes, but another 50% loading for potential subsequent converted tries(due to inflation of morale lol), yet we fail to include his try assists (or potential inflation of morale from the tries scored lol).

He is a bad one on one defender, yet if people are expecting Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad to have a 200 point impact on our for and against, they may need to start relearning how the game is played.

 

[jonesy101]

I’ll give you an alternative - Dallin Watene-Zelezniak. Tackle efficiency only slightly better, try causes still bad despite only patrolling one side of the field. Errors slightly better but from a less difficult position and wasn’t trying to force passes in attack to try to create points. Also didn’t contribute on the try assists like Walsh did. So just as a start, I would argue Dallin Watene-Zelezniak’s net negative impact was at least as bad. However that’s just stats, I would put the blame on the whole team, they were all fairly terrible - without a couple of dubious ref decisions against the Tigers, we were spoon quality last season.

Didn't help that the team were living out of a suitcase with contracted players knowing they weren't there for the long haul. The Lodge saga really hurt us. Throw in a coach that also wasn't fully committed and it's no surprise that we imploded.

I'm confident that this season will have some positive changes with better results coming.

 

[Christchurch_Warrior]

Here is a back of the envelope analysis

Reece Walsh 29 try causes
The TRY was his fault 29 times according to the NRL stats people
29 * (4 points plus 70% conversion rate) = 29* 5.4 = 156.6 points
I would also suggest his stupid pea hearted try causes deflated the team and caused a second subsequent try INDIRECTLY 50% of the time - ADD another 156.6*50%=78.3 points
Reece Walsh costed us 78.3+156.6 = 234 of -700 points differential

HE WAS THE WORST OFFENDER

The fact that Dallin Watene-Zelezniak caused 22 tries makes him second worst offender and same blame lies at his feet also. Dallin Watene-Zelezniak causing 22 tries or Guth leaking a million tries does not invalidate the fact that Reece was a turnstile on defence and without whom our points differential would have been -470 instead of -700.

That said is -470 not good enough

No. Minus 470 is a pure shit hole performance. And if we scored -470 we should be holding other culprits to account such as Dallin Watene-Zelezniak for who caused the -470.

Ultimately we should be aiming to breakeven this year and if we do we might just make the 8.

We need to leak 700 less points

Switching Charnze in for Reece Witherspoon will get 230 points of the way there towards a 700 point improvement.
230 point improvement is not nearly enough and the whole team absolutely must accept accountability improve so that we can finish with a break even for and against this year.


DID REECE WALSH COST US 200 POINTS OF THE -700 LAST YEAR? Hell Yes
Were others to blame for the other -500. Hell Yes
We shouldn't dare suggest that just replacing Reece with Charnze will solve our problems as -470 is an sbsolute rubbish season.

So Clint Gutherson with 33 try causes is directly responsible for 178 points and the reason why the Eels didn't make the finals.... or perhaps RL league is a team sport and defense is not the responsibility of just one person.
Reese Walsh is shit at defense we all know that but last season he wasn't helped by anyone as the defense of nearly all the Warriors were shit. The coaches keep putting him out there in that position and none of the coaches we had had the balls to move him from full back.

 

[Wheels]

Sort of seems approximately right. I'm actually making an in-depth team defence metric as we speak.

Walsh missed a (Worriers) team leading 56 tackles overall at 35.2% miss rate. The worst defensive FB in the league. He also had 38 errors, good for 2nd equal in the entire NRL with another overrated Bronco Cobbo. That's 1.7 errors per game, folks!

Dallin Watene-Zelezniak missed 21 times but barely breaks a sweat, making a paltry 4.3 tackles a game, for a 21.2% whiff rate. He also has 24 errors in only 18 games, ranked equal 25th worst overall in the entire NRL.

Kosi is next worst with a 24.5% whiff rate and 16 errors in only 12 games for the same ErPG rate as Dallin Watene-Zelezniak with 1.3.

Montoya (26.9 MT%) with only 3.8 completed tackles per game and 10 errors (ErPG of .6) is another one I'm off.
Vailea is just as bad with a 27.3 whiff rate and a .8 ErPG

Best of the bad bunch, Pompey (18.2 MT%) is crap too with 15 errors. Boys, I'm looking at Rocco Berry with rose-coloured glasses. Come back all is forgiven! Rocco actually averages 15.4 tackles per game and a 9.6 MT%. Seriously, the guy plays like a 2nd rower with an okay .6 ErPG.

The sad facts are our back 5 were the worst in the NRL by a country mile. We should have kept Hiku for sure.

I am still holding on to hope that Berry will become good. I don’t know what happened last year to him but he seems to have good instincts to play centre and can read plays pass well etc and defend. Valiea has better attack but Berry in my eyes is a better long term prospect. I hope he gets enough chances this season to prove me right or wrong.

 

[Mullayo]

We had a defensive coach? What was he defensive about? A receding hairline?

Defensive coach telling the wings to jam in 20 metres all the time was a key cause behind all of that as well.

 

[Wrighty]

Didn't help that the team were living out of a suitcase with contracted players knowing they weren't there for the long haul. The Lodge saga really hurt us. Throw in a coach that also wasn't fully committed and it's no surprise that we imploded.

I'm confident that this season will have some positive changes with better results coming.

So Clint Gutherson with 33 try causes is directly responsible for 178 points and the reason why the Eels didn't make the finals.... or perhaps RL league is a team sport and defense is not the responsibility of just one person.
Reese Walsh is shit at defense we all know that but last season he wasn't helped by anyone as the defense of nearly all the Warriors were shit. The coaches keep putting him out there in that position and none of the coaches we had had the balls to move him from full back.

Reece should have played stand off and we might have made the playoffs.
Reece's defence is no worse than Sam Walkers's. Reece is an uber bad fullback while you can hide a 5 8th.

 

[Mullayo]

Couple of nuggets thrown up by the new metric I'm making.
1) Rocco Berry makes a million tackles for a centre, converts to approximately a billion for a Warriors centre.
15.4 tackles per game and a 9.6 MT%.

(Kosi 3.1, Montoya 3.8, Dallin Watene-Zelezniak 4.3, and Reece 4.7 tackles per game with MT%s between 21% and 35%)

The one we should have kept was Arthars who made 13.8 tackles at 9.4 MT%.

Also interesting is Volkman who made 49 tackles with only 4 misses in 2 games. 24.5 tackles per!

Like I suggested before, he could play hooker. He has the Cheese build at 93 kg and 19 years-old.
Maybe a bench spot covering both halves and hooker???

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[Mullayo]

so we are not only counting his try causes, but another 50% loading for potential subsequent converted tries(due to inflation of morale lol), yet we fail to include his try assists (or potential inflation of morale from the tries scored lol).

He is a bad one on one defender, yet if people are expecting Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad to have a 200 point impact on our for and against, they may need to start relearning how the game is played.

No, because we were talking about the 200 or so points he cost us. So you can add the 2nd worst in the NRL overall errors, 38 and a team leading 11 penalties against.

Charnze is addition by subtraction. He only has to be neutral in the aggregate for the -200 points to disappear. I don't think he'll add much value offensively, but safe and sound is all we need. He'll eat some metres and make the back five better. TBH, they couldn't be worse.

 

[Mr Brownstone]

Here is a back of the envelope analysis

Reece Walsh 29 try causes
The TRY was his fault 29 times according to the NRL stats people
29 * (4 points plus 70% conversion rate) = 29* 5.4 = 156.6 points
I would also suggest his stupid pea hearted try causes deflated the team and caused a second subsequent try INDIRECTLY 50% of the time - ADD another 156.6*50%=78.3 points
Reece Walsh costed us 78.3+156.6 = 234 of -700 points against the warriors

HE WAS THE WORST OFFENDER

The fact that Dallin Watene-Zelezniak caused 22 tries makes him second worst offender and same blame lies at his feet also. Dallin Watene-Zelezniak causing 22 tries or Guth leaking a million tries does not invalidate the fact that Reece was a turnstile on defence and without whom our points against would be -470


We need to leak less points




DID REECE WALSH COST US 200 POINTS OF THE -700 LAST YEAR? Hell Yes
Were others to blame for the other -500. Hell Yes
We shouldn't dare suggest that just replacing Reece with Charnze will solve our problems by itself

You are the biggest Dallin Watene-Zelezniak fan on this forum, so out of interest what do you calculate his negative points differential impact to be?