Internationals World Cup Final - Kiwis vs. Kangaroos

Raurimu Massive

Raurimu Massive

Why we lose so often against Aussie can be summed up by the teams' approaches to the game. We believe that in order to win, we'll need to play with passion and fire. Aussie believe that in order to win, they need to play superior Rugby League. If the result was decided before kick off, we'd be sweet because we give it shit for the haka. But it's not, and we lost.

One day NZ league will learn that you need more than fire in your belly to win a game of footy. I hope I'm still alive to see that happen.
 
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Maraea

Maraea

Imho, familiarity helps. Sheens been coaching for a long time, Thurston, smith, cronk played together as schoolboys. SoO is part of national selection and helpful preparation. They have well estasblished domestic comps. The latest and greatest national nz comp only started a couple of years ago, after the bartercard comp was defunct. I mean shit, we've had to spend years poaching from union because we just havent had the nmbers or structures in league. We are not in the same league as england or aus for domestic comps, we've tried to bat above our weight for years (I hope thats how that saying goes). We suffer for the sport being held back in nz for so long. Of course if league had the support union did the start with all of nz natural talent, the shoe would most definitely be on the other foot. we had our chances but I bet we'll have more certainty with a better schoolboys and domestic competitions and our own SoO. I know blokes have heard it all before, sorry to bore you wih it again. go the kiwis, a flightless bird has no fight to soar
 
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Freddie Futler

Freddie Futler

It's not about yelling or screaming at your players, it's about calming them down and adapting to game situations, you can practise game scenarios all you like during the week but when things don't go to plan during the game and the other side scores you don't hang your head in dissapointment you gather your men around and forget about what happened, stress the ill discipline, stress line speed and execution, you regather your troops and think about the next course of action, always thinking ahead and boosting those around you....always planning the next phase..not just stand there and say nothing?!...wtf is that type of captaincy?
Wait up! he probably changed the game plan as they walked out the tunnel.
As much as I like Manners as a player he is no Captain and as long as he remains Capt at the Warriors we will continue to achieve the same results. IMO he is about three years away from having enough experience to be Captain.
 
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Mr Frank White

Mr Frank White

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No one said it was his fault. It is simply one aspect of why and how the team lost. Johnson's aimless options were another cause, SBW's bad offloading late in the game was another, the forwards going backwards another, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck breaking his leg yet another. Australia playing near to perfection the biggest cause of the loss of course, but all of these other things, the coaching, and many other aspects are responsible.
Those other examples are pretty much facts, Manners captaincy is an entirely subjective issue that doesn't enjoy majority support either way.
 
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Sebastian

Sebastian

Cleary with a worse roster made Elliot his bitch and not just this season, he' s been his bitch for ages
Taylor in someway reminds of the ozzie backrowers, Gallen and Parker at 23 were miles off the players they would go on to become.
I didn't say better, both Locke and Tomkins were shit compared to both ozzie fullbacks that played and you could make a case for the other 2 fullbacks in their team, where are the big game plays from Tomkins?

Cleary is a good solid coach who has become beyond over rated. I stuck up for him while he was here. But i can tell you a lot of our fans hated him. Sometimes with good reason. Simple game plans = One dimensional. Loyalty selections = Bad form rewarded. He had his good points but is no messiah. We were very lucky to make that grand final. Funnily enough ME has reached 2nd in a regular season while Cleary has only ever reached 4th. It's the finals series that ME faulters. But looking back at his teams. He did a good job just to get them there.

Taylor is eerily similar to Cleary. Simple, Solid, No Frills. He suits Cleary and Cleary will suit him. But i'm glad we get to try something different. We need the opposite of Taylor. Skilled, Sizeable, Rough.

Tomkins was a class above Locke. Try assists against Australia. Length of the field breaks. Quality play in the line. Locke was solid at best. At best. Can't wait till Sam gets here. Just hope our forwards back him up the middle. Tomkins has a genuine short kicking game. Something which Locke will desperately need to work on if he's serious about Stand Off.
 
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fanrrior

fanrrior

you mean if he had been used as a winger, instead of having to become a forward to get involved. The halves should have been raining kicks down onto his wing.

As a winger, he was virtually unused.
I meant that if I were judging him solely on what is expected of a winger then I would say that he played like shit. Even though he was virtually unused as a winger he still managed to get himself bundled into touch and drop a few balls. As a winger first and foremost, he played rather poorly. However when taking his Forward-like hit-ups into account I'd say he did an okay job overall... especially when compared to some of his teammates.
 
gREVUS

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
I meant that if I were judging him solely on what is expected of a winger then I would say that he played like shit. Even though he was virtually unused as a winger he still managed to get himself bundled into touch and drop a few balls. As a winger first and foremost, he played rather poorly. However when taking his Forward-like hit-ups into account I'd say he did an okay job overall... especially when compared to some of his teammates.


your right he went for the miracle play up the sideline, and he shouldn't have, should he, cause shit everything else was working so well. Did you at all notice when - on the rare occasions when the kiwis actually bothered - Slater had to catch a high ball he always had 2-3 of his players shielding him. Did you notice none when any kiwi went to catch a high ball? Aiming up at Manu is easy, after all he was the one out there trying anything to stop the rot, so he stood out. Your comment leaves little to imagine that you don't like Manu and want him gone, but even you say "compared to some of his teammates" so why not talk about them instead then, why attack one of the few players that was actually trying to win the game. I'm sorry Fanrior your entitled to your opinion and I normally respectfully disagree but this time I think you've let your blinkers blind you to what actually happened in that game.
 
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mt.wellington

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Well, that sucked! As much as I hated the result I was in awe of the Aussie teams complete domination. In all the games of League I have ever watched I dont think I have ever witnessed such an outstanding defensive effort from any team. The Kangaroos were impenetrable. They always seemed to have numbers in the tackle and did a fantastic job of slowing down play. We on the other hand were lousy in all aspects of our tackling. Felt we let them get up far to quick a lot of the time.

As good as the Aussies defence was, our useless game plan didnt help. One off the ruck til the fourth tackle then pass, backdoor, pass to the winger and see if he can pull some magic out of his ass! We were getting no where up the middle so instead we could only try go around them.

Biggest difference was the halves. Ours lacked the kicking game while Cronk and JT couldnt put a foot wrong. Some great tries came from some pinpoint kicks. Loved the way the Aussies didnt so much try to run through us but instead went over and behind us. Poor Locke was probably the busiest man on the field.

Anyway, congratulations to the new World champs. Well played and deserved.

Time for a new coach???
 
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¿N. ig-mah¿

¿N. ig-mah¿

Those other examples are pretty much facts, Manners captaincy is an entirely subjective issue that doesn't enjoy majority support either way.
Answer me this. When your team gets into a funk where the other team is just rolling over you, and you are in your ingoal after yet another try, what would cause a change to happen, if not the captain using the right words to inspire you? When your captain is standing with his back to you and his head down, waiting for the kick, how could you ever come to a realisation that would turn the flow? You are destined to continue the same game ad finitum without inspiration (or humiliation) from your captain.

A trainer can only do so much to get your head in the game. You need on-field inspiration, not the same old words repeated from the coaches box.
 
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Inruin

Inruin

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Answer me this. When your team gets into a funk where the other team is just rolling over you, and you are in your ingoal after yet another try, what would cause a change to happen, if not the captain using the right words to inspire you? When your captain is standing with his back to you and his head down, waiting for the kick, how could you ever come to a realisation that would turn the flow? You are destined to continue the same game ad finitum without inspiration (or humiliation) from your captain.

A trainer can only do so much to get your head in the game. You need on-field inspiration, not the same old words repeated from the coaches box.
the half time 'chat' from the kiwi coaches worked well too....
 
Weno

Weno

Well done Kangaroos, I started crying at 16 - 2 knowing the Kangaroo defence was inpenetrable.
We got beaten by Grass Roots defence.

If you go watch your local premier teams you will see the same defensive pattern at that level.
Two - three forwards rushing up and one coming across to put off the off load.
Sucked watching something so basic nullify our big boys.

Kangaroo chasing and support play was sublime.

Every time we think we have bridged the gap, the Kangaroos find another way to open it up again.

Corey Parker, Sam Thaiday, Greg Bird, Andrew Fafita were my pick in the forwards for the Kangaroos.
Thurston , Cronk, and Billy Slater, say no more, to classy for us.
Jared Hayne woke up after getting rocked from Mannering and bit our candy as$es .

Manu was the best in the go forward department, got rocked on his first carries, came back strong to cap off a great game.
Thought Manu was our best , I did not pick Manu in my original team , so I am glad to eat humble pie.

Foran tried hard to create with no success, so tried to inspire defensively.

Johnson was shut down Full Stop.
Big bombs to a man who rarely drops a ball never worked, was not worth attempting with no chasers
Sub par kicking game to.
Chad Townsend must be rubbing his hands after watching Johnsons inferior kicking game in comparision to his.
No go forward, no room, no good ball for halves to create .

Kasiano stood up, our man Taylor put in a hearty effort. Mannering was solid with out being spectacular.
Goodwin was surprisingly solid and good on the ball.

SBW showed hunger, his off load to nobody would of been a try if he was a Kangaroo.
SBW tried to inspire
but I think our boys hearts had dropped by then.

We made the final and came up short, all you can do is try and wear your heart on your sleeve and that is what you did boys.

Proud of our team, Proud to be a Kiwi.

Thanks Kiwis.
 
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Apus

Apus

I think it's time to call it quits with Kearney. It should be blatantly obvious now that the 2008 win was far more Bennetts doing and not Kearneys.

Johnson and Foran need more years to mature, and I really hope they can do it because they were either missing or were making far worse plays than the Aussies. Johnson being our only long range kicking option is really hurting, because his long range kicking game is not overly good. Massive boot, but he only puts it into bombs which all came down on the 20m line.

Really hurt getting up at 3am to watch that, but I guess we always run the risk of the Aussies doing to that to us, and it shows how far we still have to go as a national side.
 
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gREVUS

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
I had a thought as this thread was loading, we the kiwi fans know what it is like to be NSW supporters. Our team has the right stuff, on paper this should be a good battle but when the whistle sounds you just know the QLD have your number - again! And it all comes back to effectively 4 - 5 players that have been developed together for years now.

Slater - the best FB in the game hands down
Cronk
Smith
Thurston
Ingless (not sure he deserves to be listed with the others yet but hes so damn close its hard to separate)

And then there was everyone else, all superstars of the game.
 
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mt.wellington

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
I had a thought as this thread was loading, we the kiwi fans know what it is like to be NSW supporters. Our team has the right stuff, on paper this should be a good battle but when the whistle sounds you just know the QLD have your number - again! And it all comes back to effectively 4 - 5 players that have been developed together for years now.

Slater - the best FB in the game hands down
Cronk
Smith
Thurston
Ingless (not sure he deserves to be listed with the others yet but hes so damn close its hard to separate)

And then there was everyone else, all superstars of the game.
If theres one consolation it'll be that none of those players bar maybe Inglis will be playing in the next RLWC.

Of course Im sure someone else will step who is just as good or better :(...
 

warriors4eva

so i take it the next world cup is downunder ??

are we co-hosting or Oz have it to themselfs....id better start saving, much cheaper to get accross the ditch !!!

anyway, thats done and dusted, i have moved on lol...bring on the mighty warriors 2014
 
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Far North Forever

Just recovered from the humiliation but here's my 2 cents. If we are to compete with Aussie we need to have all our best players fit, firing and available e.g. TL, Sheck, Smith, SKD, Pritchard that's almost 40% of a starting lineup. Shaun J, he is not upto this level, has no idea how to steer a team around the field, others not up to the required level were Taylor, Goodwin, Locke, JWH, Kasiano. Only players who could of possibly made the Aussie side would of been Manu and SBW no one else, not even close. Thankfully I got to watch the 2008 World Cup win because I'm not sure I will get to see another. What this world cup did show was we are lucky to have Sam Tompkins on our books.[DOUBLEPOST=1385968419][/DOUBLEPOST]
I think I watched the game slightly different to some. While Johnson wasn't great, I think he's outplayed Foran in every game this world Cup - surely he would be the first half on the chopping block?
Lol love your humour bro if I thought you were serious Id be thinking your Johnson ole man.
 
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Biffbebiffing

Biffbebiffing

Agreed, Johnson gets so much shit for his performances, but Foran has been average for most of his games for the kiwis. At least Johnson tried things, Foran just sat back and watched the slaughter unfold, might as well not even played.
 
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tajhay

tajhay

🏉
What irritated the hell out of me was when Johnson had trouble getting the last tackle kicks away, there didnt seem to be a shift in strategy with the boys with Foran taking more of that role/Johnson giving it to him. It seemed like we went into the game with Plan A and despite losing Roger Tuivasa-Sheck or getting smashed whatever we did, did not deviate from it or had any other options. Its not for a lack of trying, it just seemed we went under prepared into the game.

I blame the coaches for that. We didnt go there with any set moves, anything out of the box. We went into the game as deers staring directly at the headlights.
 
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