General What is the point of the Vulcans?

[Viking]

I'm off on a tangent here but I heard the other day that Vinnie and Louie Anderson's dad is coming down to Invercargill to spend some time with the Southland Rams to help develop them into a more competitive side and perhaps attract some more competition from other regions. ATM they reeaally only get a couple of games a year against Otago. I don't know how good this guy is, but its got to be good for league development as a whole in the country if the provinces get more competitive.

He coached East Coast Bays in the Sharman about 4 years ago. The team was good so he must've been a good coach but he was full on, very 'vocal' from the sidelines. Not saying that's a bad thing but if the players make any mistakes they'll know all about it.

 

[Leaguenut76]

There seems to be some miss information etc. regarding the Vulcans and there relationship with the warriors.
Although they are administered by the Rugby League Development Foundation, the Vulcans is a joint venture between Auckland Rugby League and the New Zealand Warriors. The success of the Vulcans last year was in large due to the squad depth that the Warriors had. As BigStu said, the Warriors let alot of players go at the end of last year that has affected how the vulcans have performed in 2012. Some of the players that played in 2011 but have since moved on is: Brett Seymour, Joel Moon, Isaac John, James Gavet, Shaun Metcalf, Saulala Houma, Matt Robinson, Upu Poching, Anthony Gelling, Shaun Berrigan, Jeremy Latimore & Krisnan Inu.
Unfortunately with a smaller NRL squad along with a mounting injury list the Vulcans this year have had to field a team made up of mainly local players.

 

[mode81]

funny how the vulcans weren't a joke to people last season. how many people here have actually been to there games. last season they pretty much lost 13 players from there lineup including there coach of course they are gunna struggle. the team is used as a stepping stone to the nrl for the warriors but the thing is there is no one to promote to the top side this year due to there run of form only player worthy of selection is pita godinet. bring back richie blackmoore and they will improve

Yeah I was thinking along those lines, maybe if Blackmore was in charge they would be more professional because I've been down to Mt Smart #2 to watch The Vulcans under Ricky Henry and it almost seems like Mt Albert or Glenora would beat them, Vulcans look slack this season, it's a reflection of the overall feeling of the club, just something wrong behind the scenes.

 

[Sexymonkey]

Yeah I was thinking along those lines, maybe if Blackmore was in charge they would be more professional because I've been down to Mt Smart #2 to watch The Vulcans under Ricky Henry and it almost seems like Mt Albert or Glenora would beat them, Vulcans look slack this season, it's a reflection of the overall feeling of the club, just something wrong behind the scenes.

13 key players left last year and current team consisting mainly of local players.. I think you would get the same result under any coach... you can only do so much with what you have.

 

[Phantomlock]

There seems to be some miss information etc. regarding the Vulcans and there relationship with the warriors.
Although they are administered by the Rugby League Development Foundation, the Vulcans is a joint venture between Auckland Rugby League and the New Zealand Warriors. The success of the Vulcans last year was in large due to the squad depth that the Warriors had. As BigStu said, the Warriors let alot of players go at the end of last year that has affected how the vulcans have performed in 2012. Some of the players that played in 2011 but have since moved on is: Brett Seymour, Joel Moon, Isaac John, James Gavet, Shaun Metcalf, Saulala Houma, Matt Robinson, Upu Poching, Anthony Gelling, Shaun Berrigan, Jeremy Latimore & Krisnan Inu.
Unfortunately with a smaller NRL squad along with a mounting injury list the Vulcans this year have had to field a team made up of mainly local players.

Best post in this thread and BS has good input into this as well. Blackmore had a superb roster to work with as you've pointed out. I feel for Henry for not getting something similar but with roster changes and changes to Warriors management there was always a fear that things might go pear shaped for them this year and it has. Even now Vulcans players are beginning to head offshore so there's a danger that our FG side and so called second tier team will be even worse next year. I sincerely hope this doesn't happen but I've overestimated my early season confidence of their performance this year.

PL

 

[Leaguenut76]

Best post in this thread and BS has good input into this as well. Blackmore had a superb roster to work with as you've pointed out. I feel for Henry for not getting something similar but with roster changes and changes to Warriors management there was always a fear that things might go pear shaped for them this year and it has. Even now Vulcans players are beginning to head offshore so there's a danger that our FG side and so called second tier team will be even worse next year. I sincerely hope this doesn't happen but I've overestimated my early season confidence of their performance this year.

PL

29 players have debuted at Vulcans level so far this year trying to find some quality out of the local comp. Unfortunately good Fox players don't equal good NSW Cup players.

 

[Viking]

There seems to be some miss information etc. regarding the Vulcans and there relationship with the warriors.
Although they are administered by the Rugby League Development Foundation, the Vulcans is a joint venture between Auckland Rugby League and the New Zealand Warriors. The success of the Vulcans last year was in large due to the squad depth that the Warriors had. As BigStu said, the Warriors let alot of players go at the end of last year that has affected how the vulcans have performed in 2012. Some of the players that played in 2011 but have since moved on is: Brett Seymour, Joel Moon, Isaac John, James Gavet, Shaun Metcalf, Saulala Houma, Matt Robinson, Upu Poching, Anthony Gelling, Shaun Berrigan, Jeremy Latimore & Krisnan Inu.
Unfortunately with a smaller NRL squad along with a mounting injury list the Vulcans this year have had to field a team made up of mainly local players.

Thanks for clarifying that, was I correct in the way players are payed now? Everything I hear about the Vulcans is through the local club scene and so is essentially second and third hand knowledge now.

I got to see a bit more of them 3 or so years ago and from the outside looking in, they didn't seem to have the support from the Warriors or ARL that they needed to be successfull. It seemed liked they were being run on a shoestring too.

Have they been a joint venture between the ARL and Warriors since Norton first had them? They're still the last NSW cup side to formalise their roster befoer the season starts right? Why is that?

 

[Viking]

There seems to be some miss information etc. regarding the Vulcans and there relationship with the warriors.
Although they are administered by the Rugby League Development Foundation, the Vulcans is a joint venture between Auckland Rugby League and the New Zealand Warriors. The success of the Vulcans last year was in large due to the squad depth that the Warriors had. As BigStu said, the Warriors let alot of players go at the end of last year that has affected how the vulcans have performed in 2012. Some of the players that played in 2011 but have since moved on is: Brett Seymour, Joel Moon, Isaac John, James Gavet, Shaun Metcalf, Saulala Houma, Matt Robinson, Upu Poching, Anthony Gelling, Shaun Berrigan, Jeremy Latimore & Krisnan Inu.
Unfortunately with a smaller NRL squad along with a mounting injury list the Vulcans this year have had to field a team made up of mainly local players.

Another question for you or PL, a year or so ago there was talk of the ARL entering a team in the Bundy Cup as well, was there any truth to that? Our local players could cut it at that level.

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

Thanks for clarifying that, was I correct in the way players are payed now? Everything I hear about the Vulcans is through the local club scene and so is essentially second and third hand knowledge now.

I got to see a bit more of them 3 or so years ago and from the outside looking in, they didn't seem to have the support from the Warriors or ARL that they needed to be successfull. It seemed liked they were being run on a shoestring too.

Have they been a joint venture between the ARL and Warriors since Norton first had them? They're still the last NSW cup side to formalise their roster befoer the season starts right? Why is that?

Mate the Auckland Rugby League dont have the professionalism or the capabilities to run anything to do with the vulcans.
If they want to be succesfull the Warriors should take further control and push arl aside (the real reason why they have been getting better)
Importantly if they can get the professional warriors marketing and comms behind them ..then the vulcans could grow quite a bit.
Im sure the fact they play infront of nobody, no coverage in the media wont help players FULLY-committ and push themselves
eg. Did anybody know that the Fox final is this saturday? all they have on their website is a poster made before season started.

The only reason why auckland rugby league are involved because they use to bank roll the whole operation with carlaw park money against the desires of the clubs.
problem is though ..people in rugby league are not switched on enough to get up and stand up for their rights

First thing I would of done If I was a local club administrator , after Owen Glenn announcement about all the stuff he is going to do.
I would say sweet kick ARL out of the equation and get their focus on the local club comps and more importantly stop spending our money for the benefit of the warriors.
Secondly, dont talk about money when the warriors dont even pay development fee to local clubs. (not that I agree with that, as that would just place barriers up)

Back to your comment Clearly the payment structure is not good enough .... clubs like papakura, mt albert and point chev obviously pay better.
Also they signed the wrong people pre-season.
Cant blame ricky henry for that he only started pre-season.

First choice should young keen and talented blokes.
They should go ahead and sign up the junior warriors not getting picked up by nrl clubs NOW.
Give the young blokes a full preseason.
These players will stay committed and push themselves - they want a future in the game

Had a look at the warriors website, these guys are too old for 20s, wont be picked up by NRL (well possibly) but if the Warriors can go up to them now.
Apart from Fotofili (who gets picked every week -because he is from rugby) all other players have proved themselves at Fox and/or Domestic level.
Give them a 5k contract and promise them 250 a game garunteed and 350 a win.
The warriors wld naturally have first dibbs to promotoe them if needed.
Like outside backs this year lol.
Also I would have somebody externally on the recruitment panel, for players external from the warriors.

Logo Fotofili-Prop
Atu Tupou-Prop
Malakai Houma-2nd Row
Jethro Friend-Hooker
Nathaniel Peteru - Prop
Donald Tony - Utility Forward

They guys will stay committed and will be available to play week in week out.
Not like Matagi and Manu Mau who had travel restrictions and could only play home games.
thats cool as they are great players but. Really planning a team around players who arent available every 2nd week aint ideal.

Plus there will be some 21-24 year old who have performed for Vulcans and/or local club footy.
NZ have a national rep comp they can pick players from Auckland & Counties + plus any other keen guys from around the country.

People who think they cant play at that level and compete, dont know football
They are just shifting the blame. If they arent a top side then its not good enough.
With owen glenn, aparently money is not an issues.
Auckland is the number one base of Rugby League talent in the world.

Not all ricky henrys fault . ..more so the administrators of the vulcans.

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

richie went over to france to coach a 2nd tier side with the chance at super league gig but the deal fell through while he was over there. i went to a game at the start of the season and saw him watching i the stands so he's back in nz i don't know why they don't give him his job back

mate he got a job with Leigh (I think) who play 2nd div in the esl.
They maybe a possibility of being promoted to ESL with bulls being relegated

However due to visa issues he couldnt become their coach...he had to become their ceo (or simlar) of the club to get around it. lol

 

[Miket12]

Agree with Slaughterhouse.sa, the ARL should leave the warriors to run the Vulcans so that players who aren't signed into the NRL team but are too old for the Juniors can be signed on to play for the Vulcans and not contracted to the Warriors. That way we don't have an NRL team struggling with rookies but our younger players can step up to the NSW cup while leaving us room to contract players from NZ and Oz to the Warriors instead of spending so much off the salary cap on players not yet ready for the NRL.

Don't know but it seems quite logical to me.

 

[gREVUS]

Does anyone know how this is handled by other clubs in Australia?

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

There seems to be some miss information etc. regarding the Vulcans and there relationship with the warriors.
Although they are administered by the Rugby League Development Foundation, the Vulcans is a joint venture between Auckland Rugby League and the New Zealand Warriors. The success of the Vulcans last year was in large due to the squad depth that the Warriors had. As BigStu said, the Warriors let alot of players go at the end of last year that has affected how the vulcans have performed in 2012. Some of the players that played in 2011 but have since moved on is: Brett Seymour, Joel Moon, Isaac John, James Gavet, Shaun Metcalf, Saulala Houma, Matt Robinson, Upu Poching, Anthony Gelling, Shaun Berrigan, Jeremy Latimore & Krisnan Inu.
Unfortunately with a smaller NRL squad along with a mounting injury list the Vulcans this year have had to field a team made up of mainly local players.

Agreed with the first part as it is all fact.

However they could field a team made up of local players and be extremely competitive.
Remember all the juniors are 'local players' as well as a majority of the warriors premier squad.
Plus there is some genuine top talent in auckland.

However it is a cause of concern, when they cant attract/retain the best or close to the best local players.

even now they have blokes like Latu is pushing 30 and really have no future.
Even blokes like nootai, was picked from a 2nd div club and at a guess will be later 20s.

This year they signed up from Steven Waetford and James Blackwell - both feature in the fox final last year and played for Counties.
But while are two top players from fox, both are fullbacks.

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

Another question for you or PL, a year or so ago there was talk of the ARL entering a team in the Bundy Cup as well, was there any truth to that? Our local players could cut it at that level.

What would be the point of entering a team in bundy cup?
There is no chance of that or no point.

Bundy cup would only be remotely better than fox memorial.
The fox in particular as a whole has being getting better in recent years.
It would just set the fox back 5 years.

 

[Viking]

What would be the point of entering a team in bundy cup?
There is no chance of that or no point.

Bundy cup would only be remotely better than fox memorial.
The fox in particular as a whole has being getting better in recent years.
It would just set the fox back 5 years.

I agree, it'd be a big waste of money and I imagine it's much like the top tier of the Fox with better marketing, I've never seen a Bundy Cup game, I heard the idea mentioned though.

We still seem to be missing that middle tier that the Bartercard Cup used to provide. Players like Ropati and Vatuvai and even the more recently Matulino and Packer, hit the ground running when they stepped up to 1st grade, they were already battle hardened from Bartercard Cup to some degree. The quality of NYC players seems to decrease a little every year across the NRL. I don't think our NYC champions from last year could've beaten the winning Canberra team from 08 or the our NYC team from 08 for that matter.

I'd love to see a real semi-pro comp like the union NPC which also caters for the Warriors reserves and non-playing NYC kids. Pretty much a Bartercard Cup but more professional. Glenn can throw all the money he likes at the school comps but there's only a few spots at the Warriors. If we can't provide opportunities for the rest then the top players will continue to bugger off overseas and the sport here will never improve as a whole.

 

[mt.wellington]

I agree, it'd be a big waste of money and I imagine it's much like the top tier of the Fox with better marketing, I've never seen a Bundy Cup game, I heard the idea mentioned though.

We still seem to be missing that middle tier that the Bartercard Cup used to provide. Players like Ropati and Vatuvai and even the more recently Matulino and Packer, hit the ground running when they stepped up to 1st grade, they were already battle hardened from Bartercard Cup to some degree. The quality of NYC players seems to decrease a little every year across the NRL. I don't think our NYC champions from last year could've beaten the winning Canberra team from 08 or the our NYC team from 08 for that matter.

I'd love to see a real semi-pro comp like the union NPC which also caters for the Warriors reserves and non-playing NYC kids. Pretty much a Bartercard Cup but more professional. Glenn can throw all the money he likes at the school comps but there's only a few spots at the Warriors. If we can't provide opportunities for the rest then the top players will continue to bugger off overseas and the sport here will never improve as a whole.

EXCELLENT point. And one of your examples, Russell Packer, is an excellent example of the experiance a young up and comer can gain form a middle tier comp.

Packer first played Bartercard Cup at the age of 16. Signed to the Warriors at age 17 but spent the majority of the season playing for the Auckland Lions (now the Auckland Vulcans) but appeared sometimes for his Bartercard Cup team the Central Falcons. The next year, 4th May 2008, at the age of 18 he debuted for the Warriors vs Raiders round 10. He was also a member of the U20 team of that year. Its remarkable that he can play as a prop forward at such a young age. The guys only 22 and is 2 games shy of his 100th!!!

Now I'll admit, both he and Matulino are freaks but they to me they entered top grade alot harder than the current crop of newbie forwards (Lousis brother, Ikahihifo...) Most of them have only played School comp or Fox or their areas Fox Memorial equivalent. Bring back middle tier competition!!!

Thanks for the thought provoking post Viking

 

[eX | Machina]

Not sure if this has been asked before. Why are the Warriors affiliated with the NSW cup? I know they were previously had connections with the superior QLD cup! If you want "development" wouldn't it make more sense to have you're back up players and juniors playing in the next best thing?