General wellington grand final

[kiwi's 13-6]

nzrl needs to get its tongue out of the nrl's a** and actually build something locally for local people

a season long 8 team semi professional competition called the New Zealand Cup teams play each other twice with top 4 semi's and a final.

NZ residents rep side selected from the NZ Cup competition to tour every 2nd year to one of the following league playing regions, north america (usa, canada and jamaica) or the pacific (fiji, png, tonga etc) or europe (france, uk, italy etc) trip of a lifetime anyone? Then every other year a different countries resident side tours here.

at the end of the NZ CUP season bring back the tusk cup/national knockout club comp where the top local clubs from each area get to play each other to decide whos the best local club in the land.


can i have a job nzrl i can start on monday, thanks.

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

nzrl needs to get its tongue out of the nrl's a** and actually build something locally for local people

a season long 8 team semi professional competition called the New Zealand Cup teams play each other twice with top 4 semi's and a final.

NZ residents rep side selected from the NZ Cup competition to tour every 2nd year to one of the following league playing regions, north america (usa, canada and jamaica) or the pacific (fiji, png, tonga etc) or europe (france, uk, italy etc) trip of a lifetime anyone? Then every other year a different countries resident side tours here.

at the end of the NZ CUP season bring back the tusk cup/national knockout club comp where the top local clubs from each area get to play each other to decide whos the best local club in the land.


can i have a job nzrl i can start on monday, thanks.

You just came up with three ideas....that sound good.
But actually just spend a whole lot of money....read WASTE alot of money.

Maybe you should go talk to John Ackland...ARL have a shit load of money.
He is dumb enough to spend it on overseas trips.

Again I like the club idea....but players interest after competition is low and cost is high.
Knockout comp is a waste of time....Pt Chev ./ Mt Albert would KILL EVERY OTHER CLUB SIDE IN NZ.
Think a Auckland 3rd string side just thrashed a Waikato / BOP rep side on the weekend.

 

[kiwi's 13-6]

geez slaughter your positive thoughts and ideas about the local nz rugby league are um er totally lacking except for your support of pt chev and mt albert smashing everyone easy to say but talk is cheap, i could say that randwick would smash point chevs metrosexual jaffa hipsters to pieces and mt albert would be nothing without current wellington resident simon lomaloma playing for them, i see a randwick victory just like in the 1st ever tusk cup/ end of season national knockout club competition in 1983!!!! bring it on easy to hook up one off game between randwick vs pt chev/mt albert to test the waters as talk is cheap!

also a national semi pro comp is not a waste of money it would be an investment in local peoples sport and fitness careers, as players. coaches, administrators etc, that could work in conjunction with the warriors, with the under 20's NYC comp proposed to end in 2017 we could have one pro side from each of the nzrl seven regions plus warriors under 20's making it an 8 team comp.

NRL makes 20 million a year out of NZ in TV rights alone, as well as millions more in NRL merchandise sales in NZ. All that money is currently kept in Australia at present beside the 8 million yearly grant the warriors and receive from the NRL. That's a massive amount of money flowing out of the pockets/wallets of NZ league fans through sky tv subscriptions and merchandise sales in into The NRL's bank account in Australia. NRL should by rights supply a yearly grant to the NZRL of a couple of million they do in Nsw and Qld to help them run Nsw and Qld cups as well as kids footy why not here with NZ cup and juniour development? Under arm bowling from the ozzies or a case NZ didnt ask so they dont get?

international tours are not a waste of money infact they could break even or make a profit for the NZRL an international league game between Canada and the USA held this year in canada drew 7,500 people, if nations like fiji, canada, usa, png residents side toured NZ every other year NZRL could make a profit from gate reciepts and tv coverage... think!

 

[Defence]

Couldn't comment on the current domestic situation in NZ tbh, but I remember all these unbeatable auckland sides coming down to chch in the 90s only to go home with their pants pulled down.
Bulls were pretty dominant in the early 2000s too

 

[kiwi's 13-6]

yeah canterbury rep sides have beaten auckland rep sides on regular basis in the 80's,90's and 2000's always thought that was because of all the region canterburys always played a team game... wellington rep sides not so much but that have upset auckland couple of times in late 80's and 90's.

wellington club sides in national knockout club competition have had huge success over auckland sides randwick won the 1st won ever in 1983 i think it was, wanuiomata won it a couple of time in the 1990's and again in 2005 i think it was when the NZRL bought the comp back briefly for a year wainuiomata smashed papakura sea eagles that was held at wise park in wainui i went to that game there was about a crowd there of 3,000

 

[OMG]

You just came up with three ideas....that sound good.
But actually just spend a whole lot of money....read WASTE alot of money.

Maybe you should go talk to John Ackland...ARL have a shit load of money.
He is dumb enough to spend it on overseas trips.

Again I like the club idea....but players interest after competition is low and cost is high.
Knockout comp is a waste of time....Pt Chev ./ Mt Albert would KILL EVERY OTHER CLUB SIDE IN NZ.
Think a Auckland 3rd string side just thrashed a Waikato / BOP rep side on the weekend.

The thing is Rugby League needs to be developed nation wide, there is no easy solution, did the Auckland schools really need a new comp funded?
Now they are talking about academies to prepare players for Australia WTF, yes lets just send all the best kids to Aussie with a dream, fuck Rugby League in NZ..
Good competition is created by having certain levels of competitiveness, if we give it all away to Aus what sort of domestic football will we see, IMO it will turn to rubbish..
To truly rival Australia development is a must, the Athletes are there they just need to be enticed into the game which is one thing the u20s have done..
If the u20s hadn't been so successful would we have been able to convert Kon and Ngani and they are just a sliver of the tip of the iceberg in what is actually out there..
With all the talk of the U20s being scrapped something has to be done IMO or we will go through the late 90s and 2000s again quick smart.
Money is the major hurdle but we have entered a new fiscal era where the Warriors are turning profits and the profile of League is on the up again, good administration will play a big part in how our game develops over the next generation.
Despite what you think there are good players outside of Auckland that are being starved of good competition that enables them to be better players and regular club Footy doesn't cut it, I think you might get a shock with the state of CHCH club Footy, I am, it's a lot healthier than when I left 5yrs ago, the top teams wouldn't be as easy to roll as you suggest..

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

geez slaughter your positive thoughts and ideas about the local nz rugby league are um er totally lacking except for your support of pt chev and mt albert smashing everyone easy to say but talk is cheap, i could say that randwick would smash point chevs metrosexual jaffa hipsters to pieces and mt albert would be nothing without current wellington resident simon lomaloma playing for them, i see a randwick victory just like in the 1st ever tusk cup/ end of season national knockout club competition in 1983!!!! bring it on easy to hook up one off game between randwick vs pt chev/mt albert to test the waters as talk is cheap!

also a national semi pro comp is not a waste of money it would be an investment in local peoples sport and fitness careers, as players. coaches, administrators etc, that could work in conjunction with the warriors, with the under 20's NYC comp proposed to end in 2017 we could have one pro side from each of the nzrl seven regions plus warriors under 20's making it an 8 team comp.

NRL makes 20 million a year out of NZ in TV rights alone, as well as millions more in NRL merchandise sales in NZ. All that money is currently kept in Australia at present beside the 8 million yearly grant the warriors and receive from the NRL. That's a massive amount of money flowing out of the pockets/wallets of NZ league fans through sky tv subscriptions and merchandise sales in into The NRL's bank account in Australia. NRL should by rights supply a yearly grant to the NZRL of a couple of million they do in Nsw and Qld to help them run Nsw and Qld cups as well as kids footy why not here with NZ cup and juniour development? Under arm bowling from the ozzies or a case NZ didnt ask so they dont get?

international tours are not a waste of money infact they could break even or make a profit for the NZRL an international league game between Canada and the USA held this year in canada drew 7,500 people, if nations like fiji, canada, usa, png residents side toured NZ every other year NZRL could make a profit from gate reciepts and tv coverage... think!

I hate Pt Chev and Mt Albert but its a reality.
We will find out when Auckland play Wellington and every other region in the national competition.

I definately recognise talent especially in Cantebury and Wellington but the quality of the elite auckland sides dwarves the Welly/chch sides.
I understand who Saimon Lomaloma is - he is quality. Didt mt albert need him? No not at all.
But this is mount albert - they could lose a Grand Final by a drop goal and think the answer is signing the best local players in the country.

Yes agree NRL should invest more money into NZ.
You could spend a whole lot of money on National Competition - semi-pro comp.

NZRL dont have the capacity or ability to spend the money wisely on such iniatives.
Just as Auckland RL dont - despite the millions they have.

You cant just throw money at things that simply arent sustainable.
The game doesnt need money thrown at something just to collapse again.

Growth has to be real and somewhat organic.
Raise the quality of the competitions - through better coaching, better refereeing, better promotion/recognition.

Focus on schoolboys, junior reps, junior kiwis.

No im sorry - International tours do not make money. They cost money.
NZRL cant currently make money to host a Samoan side filled with NRL & NYC stars.
Nevermind no name local football sides from the islands.

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

The thing is Rugby League needs to be developed nation wide, there is no easy solution, did the Auckland schools really need a new comp funded?
Now they are talking about academies to prepare players for Australia WTF, yes lets just send all the best kids to Aussie with a dream, fuck Rugby League in NZ..
Good competition is created by having certain levels of competitiveness, if we give it all away to Aus what sort of domestic football will we see, IMO it will turn to rubbish..
To truly rival Australia development is a must, the Athletes are there they just need to be enticed into the game which is one thing the u20s have done..
If the u20s hadn't been so successful would we have been able to convert Kon and Ngani and they are just a sliver of the tip of the iceberg in what is actually out there..
With all the talk of the U20s being scrapped something has to be done IMO or we will go through the late 90s and 2000s again quick smart.
Money is the major hurdle but we have entered a new fiscal era where the Warriors are turning profits and the profile of League is on the up again, good administration will play a big part in how our game develops over the next generation.

Despite what you think there are good players outside of Auckland that are being starved of good competition that enables them to be better players and regular club Footy doesn't cut it, I think you might get a shock with the state of CHCH club Footy, I am, it's a lot healthier than when I left 5yrs ago, the top teams wouldn't be as easy to roll as you suggest..

I agree but Tusk cup is certainly not the format. Players wouldnt be interested.
One of the reasons those type of comps died (other than funding).

Again I recognise there is talent across the country.

Just highlighting the divide - im from South Auckland. Clubs like Mt Albert & Pt Chev have teams that have seasoned NSW cup players.
They are almost semi-professional.

I loved the Lion red Cup and a return would be great.
But if there isnt any interest from sponsors. Would it be sustainable.

Look at the NPC that is struggling and only kept alive from the Millions the All Black makes.

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

yeah canterbury rep sides have beaten auckland rep sides on regular basis in the 80's,90's and 2000's always thought that was because of all the region canterburys always played a team game... wellington rep sides not so much but that have upset auckland couple of times in late 80's and 90's.

wellington club sides in national knockout club competition have had huge success over auckland sides randwick won the 1st won ever in 1983 i think it was, wanuiomata won it a couple of time in the 1990's and again in 2005 i think it was when the NZRL bought the comp back briefly for a year wainuiomata smashed papakura sea eagles that was held at wise park in wainui i went to that game there was about a crowd there of 3,000

Wainui smashed Papakura.....but Papakura I remember didnt even care about it.
Their players got beat in the fox and didnt even wanna play anymore football

I suppose a bit importance woulbe for local league outside of Warriors is get some media presence / nous.
Thats how you can generate interest - players, fans and more importantly sponsors.

 

[slaughterhouse.sa]

Couldn't comment on the current domestic situation in NZ tbh, but I remember all these unbeatable auckland sides coming down to chch in the 90s only to go home with their pants pulled down.
Bulls were pretty dominant in the early 2000s too

Very much so - during Batercard years.
Best of canterbury verse a number of quality auckland sides.

 

[mt.wellington]

Couldn't comment on the current domestic situation in NZ tbh, but I remember all these unbeatable auckland sides coming down to chch in the 90s only to go home with their pants pulled down.
Bulls were pretty dominant in the early 2000s too

That was over 20 years ago. The game has changed so much since. Auckland would wallop every team in sight right now. While Auckland has developed and gotten more competitive, the rest of the country has slowly started to decline in not only quality but in player numbers as well. I believe the main centres like Christchurch and Wellington have seen numbers increase of late but nothing like the numbers it enjoyed when the Bulls were the best provincial team around. Clubs like the once mighty Runanga on the West Coast can barely keep the doors open. Now there was a club who punched well above their weight.

To even the playing field the Auckland team is split into two teams. Even then, they both played each other in the final. Its not just the sheer number of players that Auckland teams get to choose from (one figure Ive heard is that there are more kids playing in South Auckland then the rest of the country put together) but the fact that the level of competition in the Fox is super tight. As mentioned earlier by slaughterhouse.sa its full of players who have played NSW Cup or been through the Warriors NYC system. Even a few who have come back from being in other NRL team systems or Queensland Cup. The experience players get from even the U20 isnt to be underestimated. The Warriors U20 team beat WaiCoa Bay and Pt Chev during the preseason over the last couple of seasons.

With all due respect Auckland will waste all comers this season easy. I got a lazy $100 on it if anyone is keen...

 

[Defence]

Can't say I'd take the bet- like I say I couldn't comment on the current situation-
Slaughterhouses comments about the auckland sides killing everyone just reminded me how confident aucklanders always were thro the 90s but canterbury dominated them.
When I last played club footy there- in 99- we had three former kiwis playing in our team and they weren't even our best players.
From the outside looking in the attitude of the aucklanders to growing the game in NZ seems to have a lot in common with Australia's attitude to growing the game internationally- they don't give a fark.
Rugby turning professional really hurt league in canterbury- a lot of the best young players got poached by union- guys like Toni kopelani and Johnny leo'o- Dave kidwell ( luckily he came back ) and that's just from my school.
I don't know how they're gonna turn it around- as far as I know halswell is the only team that pays it's players ( could be wrong there- celebration? Omg?)
There was always a feeling in chch that it was very hard to make it in league because of a perceived favoritism to auckland juniors - u17s we drew the final with auckland- they scored after the siren and kicked the conversion from the sideline to steel a draw- three of our guys made JKs- auckland got ten ( yes we got a chip on our shoulder )
So there's never been a clear pathway and I guess that's what they're trying to address but while that might help the players I can't see how it's gonna improve the local standard- wish I had some answers.

 

[mt.wellington]

From the outside looking in the attitude of the aucklanders to growing the game in NZ seems to have a lot in common with Australia's attitude to growing the game internationally- they don't give a fark.

The reality is that the national game isnt Aucklands problem. Thats an NZRL issue, not the ARL. We have our issues over funding and the bulk of clubs here are running on the smell of an oily rag. From speaking with representatives from other provinces its actually them that dont give a fuck. Why would they want to spend a huge part of the small funds they get coming up to Auckland to get pummelled? Every cent they get goes to their local clubs. You can forget about the NZRL funding it as well. They will cry broke every time.

Therein lies the biggest issue for the National game. Funding. Sponsorship. MONEY! Its fine if you have a backer like BarterCard who are willing to sponsor such an expensive exercise but without it you wouldnt even bother starting a feasibility report. Lucky we have Pirtek on board or we wouldnt even have a National tourney fullstop...

 

[Defence]

The reality is that the national game isnt Aucklands problem. Thats an NZRL issue, not the ARL.

Haha yeah so exactly the same attitude australia has to the international game then.

 

[mt.wellington]

Haha yeah so exactly the same attitude australia has to the international game then.

The International game isnt Australias problem. Its the RLIF's problem. TBH if it wasnt for the NRL the game wouldnt be thriving in at least one small corner of the world. Same analogy could apply to Auckland and the rest of the country...

 

[Defence]

The International game isnt Australias problem. Its the RLIF's problem. TBH if it wasnt for the NRL the game wouldnt be thriving in at least one small corner of the world. Same analogy could apply to Auckland and the rest of the country...

Yip that's the exact attitude I'm talking about.
Sick kids aren't my problem- doesn't stop me helping out the paradise kids foundation.
For the game to grow it needs to be more selfless.
Do the top paid players in the game really need another $50,000 every time they play origin?
Did the big brass really need to fly their families over for the World Cup?
It's not about auckland throwing money at other provinces- as u pointed out they're not exactly flush themselves ( although you also say it's thriving- so what is the story there? Is there any money in auckland rugby league or not?).
Anyway, regardless of that, it's not the finances I was talking about- it's the attitudes- and that's where it all starts- the game (esp in NZ) needs to work together for the greater good if we want it to grow.
First question we need to ask, and be honest about is- do we want it to grow? Because getting back to my original statement- the perception outside of auckland is that they don't give a fark and your above posts seem to reinforce that view (sorry if I'm taking them the wrong way)
Guys like yourself and slaughterhouse are the backbone of rugby league in NZ and if they can't get guys like u on board there's no hope.

 

[OMG]

That was over 20 years ago. The game has changed so much since. Auckland would wallop every team in sight right now. While Auckland has developed and gotten more competitive, the rest of the country has slowly started to decline in not only quality but in player numbers as well. I believe the main centres like Christchurch and Wellington have seen numbers increase of late but nothing like the numbers it enjoyed when the Bulls were the best provincial team around. Clubs like the once mighty Runanga on the West Coast can barely keep the doors open. Now there was a club who punched well above their weight.

To even the playing field the Auckland team is split into two teams. Even then, they both played each other in the final. Its not just the sheer number of players that Auckland teams get to choose from (one figure Ive heard is that there are more kids playing in South Auckland then the rest of the country put together) but the fact that the level of competition in the Fox is super tight. As mentioned earlier by slaughterhouse.sa its full of players who have played NSW Cup or been through the Warriors NYC system. Even a few who have come back from being in other NRL team systems or Queensland Cup. The experience players get from even the U20 isnt to be underestimated. The Warriors U20 team beat WaiCoa Bay and Pt Chev during the preseason over the last couple of seasons.

With all due respect Auckland will waste all comers this season easy. I got a lazy $100 on it if anyone is keen...

Bro amazingly Canterbury is stronger now than when we had the Bartercard
You talk about the experience from the u20s, that's what gives me the shits, it isn't because you have better players it's that the players are playing at standards others don't get to compete in on a regular basis, good competition is what makes good players because essentially you don't have better athletes just ones that have been developed better.

 

[kiwi's 13-6]

mt welli is that $100 monopoly money? one of either Canterbury or wellington will beat either Auckland and counties at least once in this comp no doubt!

International tours can and do make money if a country pays it own way to come here then the gate takings minus grounds hire/promotion fees is profit usa/fiji/wales/png/tonga in tour games verse west coast//wellington/ waikato/canterbury etc will draw resonable crowd that money can be made from not to mention test matchs games vs nz resident in those regions as well!.


in terms of nz semi pro comp got to get everything working in together, have these kids academies feeding into the sides in the comp, get the comp up to the standard of nsw and qld cups and have the warriors reserves enter it saving the warriors stacks of cash in airfares and accommodation to oz every other week!

I think its is true that in recent times not talking about the endacott era at the warriors i mean this century the warriors do have a recruitment bias against south island players due to distance and lack of care in even bothering to look the only south island players in fairly recent times they have picked are lewis brown via sydney, simon mannering via wellington and corey lowrie direct from chch and that about it. welling and waikato had quite a few players recruited by warriors like of hohaia, koopu, rapira from waikato and matulino, gubb from wellington but mainly warriors dont even look much outside of auckland for players

 

[Marlin]

Yip that's the exact attitude I'm talking about.
Sick kids aren't my problem- doesn't stop me helping out the paradise kids foundation.
For the game to grow it needs to be more selfless.
Do the top paid players in the game really need another $50,000 every time they play origin?
Did the big brass really need to fly their families over for the World Cup?
It's not about auckland throwing money at other provinces- as u pointed out they're not exactly flush themselves ( although you also say it's thriving- so what is the story there? Is there any money in auckland rugby league or not?).
Anyway, regardless of that, it's not the finances I was talking about- it's the attitudes- and that's where it all starts- the game (esp in NZ) needs to work together for the greater good if we want it to grow.
First question we need to ask, and be honest about is- do we want it to grow? Because getting back to my original statement- the perception outside of auckland is that they don't give a fark and your above posts seem to reinforce that view.
Guys like yourself and slaughterhouse are the backbone of rugby league in NZ and if they can't get guys like u on board there's no hope.

Auckland rugby league are worth over 40 million. and the top 4 clubs in Auckland are spending around 100,000 each on their prem team

 

[Defence]

Auckland rugby league are worth over 40 million. and the top 4 clubs in Auckland are spending around 100,000 each on their prem team

Rich pricks- that's awesome.
How do they raise the funds? Primarily sponsorship? Are all the players paid evenly or are there sign on fees etc?
How do their payments stack up against union players?

Halswell is the strongest club in the sth and their players only get $50 a win (petrol money really) and are only paid if they make both trainings and attend the clubrooms on Saturday night. All up they'd be lucky to spend $10,000 a year on players. Altho there is the odd player who gets personal sponsorship from rich locals or local businesses- this is not organised by the club tho.
From the clubs perspective paying players isn't really seen as top priority as they feel the money can be better spent elsewhere.
Sponsorship is limited but they organise a number of fund raising events including an event at the end of each year to raise funds for the next year. This year they had lance cairns, Brian mckechnie and grant nisbitt speaking.
A great ( and realistic ) start would be getting the rest of the canterbury clubs ( and clubs from other provinces) up to this level.
I know the halswell board are only to happy to work with the other clubs to help them get processes in place.
What is it that the likes of canterbury and Wellington could learn from auckland? Is it just shear numbers and interest and if so how do they generate the interest and promote games?
As mentioned in another thread back in the 80s league was drawing huge crowds in canterbury- I think a lot of it comes back to promotion and administration.
Are the provincial games shown on tv in NZ?
I spoke to the canterbury coach and he thinks they can beat the auckland sides ( of coarse) but acknowledges they would have to play their best. I hope they can because people want to see competitive games and a strong provincial comp is in everyone's best interests- including aucklands.

Edit- sorry for the thread hijack mods but I think this is good stuff- sharing information and ideas that can benefit the sport in NZ.