General Warriors Salary Cap Discussion

[mt.wellington]

does anyone know how much cap space we have left?

Id imagine only the NRL, Jim Doyle, and a member or two or the Board would know the figure.

No one on here thats for sure. Only guesses based on nothing much. The article posted above suggests we made a 'big money offer'. We most likely would have used money thats already currently being paid to players that may be coming off contract this year.

The only I know for sure is that every club must spend 90% of its cap every year. I doubt we have half a million just sitting idle though...

 

[Selector]

does anyone know how much cap space we have left?

Depending on who the club releases at the end of the season id say close to $1mllion. I base that on the following figures

The minimum NRL first grade salary is 80k.

All speculation on my part but I would say Peyroux and Wright are on 80k so that's $160k.

Nathan Friend Glen Fisiiahi Suaia Matagi and Matt Allgood 200-250k each.

Plus Chad Townsend $300k.

Plus the 300k loyalty/long serving cap allowance that the Warriors can use in regards to Vatuvei and/or Mannering.

Also the salary cap is to increase next year from $6.3m to $6.55 next year so that's another $255k that can be taken into account.

Also if Jim Doyle and the club can arrange third party agreements. Which with Doyle at the helm I think the club will look to take advantage of or explore opportunities more.

 

[mt.wellington]

Depending on who the club releases at the end of the season id say close to $1mllion. I base that on the following figures

The minimum NRL first grade salary is 80k.

All speculation on my part but I would say Peyroux and Wright are on 80k so that's $160k.

Nathan Friend Glen Fisiiahi Suaia Matagi and Matt Allgood 200-250k each.

Plus Chad Townsend $300k.

Plus the 300k loyalty/long serving cap allowance that the Warriors can use in regards to Vatuvei and/or Mannering.

Also the salary cap is to increase next year from $6.3m to $6.55 next year so that's another $255k that can be taken into account.

Some of those figures are way off. Minimum wage only applies to players in the top 25.

Jonathan Wright was said to be on peanuts and would be on a 2nd or 3rd tier contract. 2nd tier varies but I know players who are getting between S30-60K. I know of a third tier contract player who was getting $10K and had to hold down a full time job. My guess is Wright is on 2nd tier and getting around $20-30K while getting topped up with his match payments.

If Dean Bell paid anymore than $100K for Nathan Friend then he's a complete muppet. No other team wanted him last year for 1st Grade so he wouldnt have had any other option but to re-sign with us. His shameless tweet to Eric Watson also points towards that. Should be on minimum wage. As was Suaia Matagi.

Dont think Chad Townsend is getting $300K either. He came here for an opportunity to play 1st Grade. The fact he rents with his partner and Charlie Gubb as a roomie is another good indicator that he's not getting much.

IMO half of our cap goes to the top 5 which leaves 20 other players scrapping for the other half...

 

[matiunz]

Some of those figures are way off. Minimum wage only applies to players in the top 25.

Jonathan Wright was said to be on peanuts and would be on a 2nd or 3rd tier contract. 2nd tier varies but I know players who are getting between S30-60K. I know of a third tier contract player who was getting $10K and had to hold down a full time job. My guess is Wright is on 2nd tier and getting around $20-30K while getting topped up with his match payments.

If Dean Bell paid anymore than $100K for Nathan Friend then he's a complete muppet. No other team wanted him last year for 1st Grade so he wouldnt have had any other option but to re-sign with us. His shameless tweet to Eric Watson also points towards that. Should be on minimum wage. As was Suaia Matagi.

Dont think Chad Townsend is getting $300K either. He came here for an opportunity to play 1st Grade. The fact he rents with his partner and Charlie Gubb as a roomie is another good indicator that he's getting much.

IMO half of our cap goes to the top 5 which leaves 20 other players scrapping for the other half...

I know we will NEVER know exact figures but I'm curious what the club values each player at

 

[Pete]

30 g is funny for a 2nd grade player. I think thats less than a minimum wage. Hope they live at home or else they might be on struggle street

 

[teetsbei]

Nathan Friend Glen Fisiiahi Suaia Matagi and Matt Allgood 200-250k each.

.

250k for fish OMG!

probably chuck another 100k on top of that to cover all his medical bills

 

[Brother Faisal]

250k for fish OMG!

probably chuck another 100k on top of that to cover all his medical bills

Wow no wonder Bell had to go!!

 

[mt.wellington]

Thread changed from Should the warriors have a larger salary cap then the Australian clubs? to the current one so all Warriors salary cap discussions, especially those that are derailing the Warriors Recruitment and Rumour thread, can continue here...

 

[Play The Ball]

There's another clip from Henare around thats quite similar, but better IMO, I can't remember the last time we saw one of our Wingers chase people down like that, gotta love the never give up atitude no matter what grade.

I'd be blown away if he was signed as a first grader. The Warriors are allowed more than 25 players on their books - it is just the top 25 earners that count towards the cap. I'd say he is essentially a player outside the top 25 but could be brought in if form warrants. That isn't belittling him but count up how many players played in first grade this season and then write those same names down in order of what they earned (guessing obviously) - there will be a few that weren't in the top 25 that still got to play first grade. As I understand it the 25th highest earner at the club must be on the first grade minimum. Hence if Hurrell and the Warriors mutually agreed to tear up his contract and he walks away a free agent (the Warriors now with the value of his contract to play with under the cap) they actually automatically move the 26th highest paid player into the cap the moment that Hurrell deal is broken. Of course if they were to go out and sign a new player on higher value than player 26, the new contract takes over a spot in the top 25.

 

[fizurg]

I'm not sure it's as complicated as that. I think there's just first tier (25 players) and second tier (5?) players.
Having a first tier contracted player leave wouldn't elevate a second tier player to a first tier contract.
In other words you don't have to have 25 first tier contracts.

 

[Play The Ball]

I'm not sure it's as complicated as that. I think there's just first tier (25 players) and second tier (5?) players.
Having a first tier contracted player leave wouldn't elevate a second tier player to a first tier contract.
In other words you don't have to have 25 first tier contracts.

Yup that's exactly what i said - just not as succinctly as you!

 

[Jay M]

Yup that's exactly what i said - just not as succinctly as you!

I'm not sure it's as complicated as that. I think there's just first tier (25 players) and second tier (5?) players.
Having a first tier contracted player leave wouldn't elevate a second tier player to a first tier contract.
In other words you don't have to have 25 first tier contracts.

The cap is for the top 25 earners at the club - I think Play The Ball is right in that if #25 leaves, #26 gets elevated.

From nrl.com

"$5.5 million - Basic payments for the Top 25 players including Sponsor Servicing Allowance ($5.3m) which is automatically given to all clubs to compensate players for club sponsorship activities including appearances and endorsements."

"Payments for players outside Top 25

$440,000 - Cap for all players outside of the top 25 who compete in the Telstra Premiership."

The problem a lot of clubs have is with the second tier cap. Because if you have 35 players on your books - that's 10 players you have to spread that $440k amongst them.

And when you have an injury toll like the warriors have had this year... how many players have played first grade? 31. Plus Laumape and Palavi who didn't play a game. And I don't know how many of the NSW Cup side get payments who didn't play either (e.g. Bhana).

So that $440k will need to be split at least 8 ways this season...

Also included in the salary cap are payments to ex players (if we're still paying them) like Mateo and Nielsen. I have heard we're definitely still paying Mateo. No idea re: Nielsen (but he was initially contracted for 2015, and I doubt the dragons picked him up at the amount the warriors signed him for).

 

[OMG]

I'd be blown away if he was signed as a first grader. The Warriors are allowed more than 25 players on their books - it is just the top 25 earners that count towards the cap. I'd say he is essentially a player outside the top 25 but could be brought in if form warrants. That isn't belittling him but count up how many players played in first grade this season and then write those same names down in order of what they earned (guessing obviously) - there will be a few that weren't in the top 25 that still got to play first grade. As I understand it the 25th highest earner at the club must be on the first grade minimum. Hence if Hurrell and the Warriors mutually agreed to tear up his contract and he walks away a free agent (the Warriors now with the value of his contract to play with under the cap) they actually automatically move the 26th highest paid player into the cap the moment that Hurrell deal is broken. Of course if they were to go out and sign a new player on higher value than player 26, the new contract takes over a spot in the top 25.

He is definitely a cheap depth signing, but IMO he has the necessary ability to break into the team.
I was following a couple of Roosters young guns for a while, he like Rona and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck were standouts.

 

[fizurg]

So if your second tier players are being paid less than the first tier minimum. (Which must happen a lot) then they get a pay rise to the first tier minimum and then lose it again of the team signs a new player mid season?
I'm sceptical.

 

[Play The Ball]

So if your second tier players are being paid less than the first tier minimum. (Which must happen a lot) then they get a pay rise to the first tier minimum and then lose it again of the team signs a new player mid season?
I'm sceptical.

No no, I think the minimum salary only applies to the top 25 players at the club. So if one was to disappear by mutual consent or having a contract torn up, the club would either need to bring another player in from outside or the next highest salary (the 26th ranked player) is promoted from the second tier on at least the minimum NRL salary. If a higher earning player comes to club after that has happened I doubt the promoted player loses their salary they just take it back to the second tier cap. There are always a few clubs where that results in a breach of either the first or second tier caps but by very small amounts. They get minimal fines if that happens as has happened almost every year.

 

[Play The Ball]

I'm still highly sceptical that you can't start the season with 24 first tier players.
So if Johnson leaves early next season, then we sign Foran the next week. The top paid second tier player gets a pay rise even though they were only in the top 25 for a week?
I was always of the impression the top tier is either 25 players or $6.5million (I just made this number up) once you hit either limit you can't buy anymore first tier players.
The second tier cap is just $440k and you can have as many as you like.

I don't know how long, if at all, you can go with 24 players but you certainly can't choose to have less than 24 top grade players for any extended period. The top cap contains the 25 highest paid players at your club - clubs don't get to choose who goes in or who stays out - they are simply the 25 biggest contracts of registered players with the club.

 

[fizurg]

Interesting. Cheers for explaining it.

 

[mt.wellington]

I don't know how long, if at all, you can go with 24 players but you certainly can't choose to have less than 24 top grade players for any extended period. The top cap contains the 25 highest paid players at your club - clubs don't get to choose who goes in or who stays out - they are simply the 25 biggest contracts of registered players with the club.

Its not the Top 25 highest paid players. Its the Top 25 the club elects. Toafofoa Sipley is in the Top 25 but he wont earn as much as some of the 2nd tier contract players.

Another aspect of the Warriors salary cap issue was debuting too many players this year. All have to paid out of the $440K the NRL set. When Chad Townsend went down we had to ask the NRL for an exemption to debut Mason Lino because we had no cap space left...

 

[Play The Ball]

Its not the Top 25 highest paid players. Its the Top 25 the club elects. Toafofoa Sipley is in the Top 25 but he wont earn as much as some of the 2nd tier contract players.

Another aspect of the Warriors salary cap issue was debuting too many players this year. All have to paid out of the $440K the NRL set. When Chad Townsend went down we had to ask the NRL for an exemption to debut Mason Lino because we had no cap space left...

I think you're right about Lino mate but not about the top 25. I just double checked (it's on the NRL website) but i just checked with the Warriors to be sure as well. The top tier cap is comprised of the 25 highest salaries at the club - no exceptions. If a player in that top 25 leaves the 26th player automatically comes in so long as their contract meets the NRL minimum salary. A club can either choose to sign a new player for the minimum and bring them in or upgrade an existing contract to the NRL minimum if no-one outside the original top 25 met that criteria.
I think the Warriors used up all of their second tier cap (on other players) before Lino was called in - hence needing the dispensation to select him.

 

[Play The Ball]

Otherwise they could essentially be paying Hurrell something like $400,000 a year but choose to leave him out of the top 25. It means they could go sign a decent player with that space under the cap and Hurrell's contract just chews up the second tier cap - not the top cap.
Sadly a bad contract will count towards the top tier cap until that deal expires.
On that Nielsen's contract with the Warriors finishes in 2015 so he won't take up any cap space next year. Mateo's deal ends at the end of 2016 so he will take up cap space next year.