The thing I found most annoying about Brown was his press conferences, especially the line, " Oh but we trained well, we just couldn't transfer it to the game." ... Training and playing are 2 completely different things haha.
As the NRL season winds up, and it's much bigger brother the NFL kicks off, it's interesting contrasting this. The league is salary capped, but also has the draft which is outstandingly unfair to the top teams. It makes for a better competition, and the good sides still manage anyway. It just gives a ray of light. The reward for being shit in the NRL is it's harder to recruit and you have to pay more to get anyone if you can get people to come. It'll likely only get worse.
Brother Faisal
Exactly my point. If we had the draft system we could’ve had a shot at say a sualii for a 3 year rookie deal and that could turn a clubs chances around. I from what have seen is that the gap will widen as those more popular clubs will always find away to keep their talent and clubs like the warriors will pay overs for overpaid veterans.
Defence
One thing I find interesting in nfl preseasons is that they have joint practices where they can run their line attack and defense and practice their plays against other teams- I’d love to see Webster organize something like that with Penrith- reckon cleary could be down with it too- while it would be of great benefit to us, we’re really no threat to them and both clubs could take something away from it (esp us getting to train with and against the benchmark team).
I think there’s at least as much if not more benefit in that than your average nrl preseason trial.
TheMorningEmu
Those are breeding grounds for scraps, there is even an article tracking the fights in this preseason alone, but regardless that would be amazing to see and with the connections going both ways between Cleary/Webster and the Panthers/Warriors it would totally be do-able.
While talking about stealing from the NFL, I would love to see a Hard-Knocks style show that changes team every preseason.
I never watched the Tigers doc so it could have been a disaster for all I know, but I did watch the All-In "documentary" we had a few years back and you can see the potential there, especially if it was made by a third party like Fox Sports rather than being edited by the teams own staff where they can cut out all the stuff they don't want you to see.
Enjoyed reading this thread. As tortured Warriors supporters, we've got used to seasons that have more losses than wins.
I wasn't expecting much this season from the playing roster based on comparable talent levels with other teams, but I did hope for better management from the back office and better leadership from our experienced players. In 2022 poor cap management and poor leadership cost the team 8-10 points in my opinion. Not enough to get into the 8, but enough to buy more development time with 4-5 players that were improving but who are now part of the 15 players being "exited" by a management group insulating themselves from a similar fate. As we cannot buy our way out of the development process necessary to grow players this will put even more pressure on the coaches in 2023.
Not too many of us would assess the warriors roster talent any higher than 12-14 out of 16 teams. At best we had 3 players (Addin Fonua-Blake, Tohu Harris, and Curran) that would be in the top 10 players for their position, and probably none in the top 5. In many ways the Warriors were travelling above their relative talent level for a decent part of the season - so to witness their dramatic slide was a reminder that errors on and off the park will have a compounding impact.
Poor cap management is killing the Warriors - 800k (Dallin Watene-Zelezniak) on a winger not in the top 10 in his position, and 700k (Lodge) on a prop that is not even in the team is $1.5 million poorly spent. If we got a winger at 300k that would perform at Dallin Watene-Zelezniak level - that would give us an extra 1.2 million to spend on talent. I put together a player summary for 2022. Bring on 2023...Warriors year ya reckon?
I wasn't expecting much this season from the playing roster based on comparable talent levels with other teams, but I did hope for better management from the back office and better leadership from our experienced players. In 2022 poor cap management and poor leadership cost the team 8-10 points in my opinion. Not enough to get into the 8, but enough to buy more development time with 4-5 players that were improving but who are now part of the 15 players being "exited" by a management group insulating themselves from a similar fate. As we cannot buy our way out of the development process necessary to grow players this will put even more pressure on the coaches in 2023.
Not too many of us would assess the warriors roster talent any higher than 12-14 out of 16 teams. At best we had 3 players (Addin Fonua-Blake, Tohu Harris, and Curran) that would be in the top 10 players for their position, and probably none in the top 5. In many ways the Warriors were travelling above their relative talent level for a decent part of the season - so to witness their dramatic slide was a reminder that errors on and off the park will have a compounding impact.
Poor cap management is killing the Warriors - 800k (Dallin Watene-Zelezniak) on a winger not in the top 10 in his position, and 700k (Lodge) on a prop that is not even in the team is $1.5 million poorly spent. If we got a winger at 300k that would perform at Dallin Watene-Zelezniak level - that would give us an extra 1.2 million to spend on talent. I put together a player summary for 2022. Bring on 2023...Warriors year ya reckon?
| Name | 2022 Season | Value for money | Position Ranking | Comment | |
| Play | Intangibles (team focus, tenacity, toughness, 1 percenters) | Y = Yes N = No F = Fair | A = Top 5 B = Places 6-10 C = Places 11-20 D = Places 21-30 E = Places 31 + | ||
| Adam Pompey | C + | B | F | D | Improved attack, needs to better lock in with centre / 2nd rower on D. |
| Ash Taylor | C | C | N | E | Good luck with retirement |
| Chanel Harris Tavita | B | B + | Y | D | Big heart, needs polish |
| Daejarn Asi | B | B + | Y | D | Potential – should model his game on Nico Hynes as has similar body shape, and should run more. |
| Dallin Watene Zelezniak | B - | B | N | C | Full commitment but is overpaid given output. |
| Edward Kosi | C + | B | Y | D | Improved attack, needs more aggression on D and to play with confidence. |
| Euan Atkin | A - | A | Y | C | Undersized second rower with great leg speed and power. Good defensive efficiency and will be missed. |
| Jesse Arthurs | B - | B - | Y | D | Some quality touches but struggled against quality centres |
| Junior Ratuva | C + | B | Y | E | Good speed, needs more experience to tie in with his centre and 2nd rower on D. |
| Marcelo Montoya | B + | A - | Y | C | Improved player with a hard edge able to dominate in contact – needs to work on combination with FB, Centre, 2nd Rower |
| Reece Walsh | B - | C + | F | B | Like a new jack Russell Puppy, high energy and capable, but too many errors for his extreme level of talent |
| Rocco Berry | C + | C + | F | D | Plays steady but needs to become a bigger threat |
| Shaun Johnson | C + | B | N | C | Needed to run to the line more as his team is too easy to defend. Surprised that he was making 20+ tackles – so still has heart. |
| Viliami Vailea | B | B | Y | D | Potential plus - needs experience to put others into space |
| Aaron Pene | C + | B - | F | E | Given his speed, he is too easy to defend. Needs to find weak shoulders and quick play the balls. |
| Addin Fonua Blake | B + | B | F | B | Played consistent but not the barn storming player Manly enjoyed. If we could get 5% more out of him… |
| Bayley Sironen | B | B + | F | D | Hard working second rower. |
| Ben Murdoch Masila | B - | B | N | D | Too inconsistent, but can still dominate contact when he finds a mismatch. |
| Bunty Afoa | B | B | F | D | Solid player, but needs to find an offload that advances the play. |
| Eliesa Katoa | C + | B - | N | E | Disappointing year from a talented player |
| Freddy Lussick | B - | B - | F | D | Early in career and needs to play more minutes |
| Jack Murchie | B | B + | F | D | Over performing given expectations. |
| Jazz Tevaga | B | B + | F | D | Undersized big hearted player used poorly by the Warriors – should be high volume tackling 13, that is a tackle 4/5 runner – and not the tackle 1/2 runner the warriors used him as |
| Taniela Otukolo | C + | C + | F | E | Needs game time to find polish. |
| Tohu Harris | A - | A | F | B | First picked player for me – quality and skill demonstrated as he came back from injury. |
| Wayde Egan | B + | A - | F | C | Solid year - he would flourish having better players around him. |
| Josh Curran | A - | A | Y | B | Quality player, with high work rate and desire |
Biffbebiffing
Dallin Watene-Zelezniak is not getting paid 800k from just the Warriors, the Bulldogs are paying at least half of that.
The
I think the issue with Addin Fonua-Blake is that most teams shut him down well with 3-4 players tackling him most of the time and too many of our plays this year being easy to read and not enough players following up in support. We've looked best with moving the ball a bit as teams push up their defensive line pretty quick, especially when Tohu Harris is given the ball and teams dont know if he is running it when he gives it off to a 2nd rower.
Got to say though I'm pretty excited for 2022 to see what Webster can do with this team. He'll be a lot more passionate than Brown and we have some decent signings coming in good form.
wizards rage
I think Addin Fonua-Blake was told to simplify his game and just concentrate on low risk bulldozing it up rather that hitting the line at pace. Slow and steady while getting post contact meters and playing longer minutes.
Lower impact - low injury - long minutes.
Because he’s our only real prop and we can’t afford him to be injured and need to maximise his time on the field.
Without bursting into line it limits his flair and ability to offload. We’ve chosen to turn him into a workhorse to compensate for lack of meters in the rest of the team.
tr73
Great post. Everyone around the team including us as fans talks a good game about wanting to do all the things to build success and toughness yet we always take the easy option when the pressure is on. Have we got the patience and discipline to get the little things right. For me that is sound development primarily bringing some discipline and perseverance to our pathways players. At the club the players as highlighted prior need to be pushed and learn to value doing what they don’t want to do. If the public and ownership respects the coaches and gives them time to achieve this which may include offending some players and managers and some boring seasons we could actually be a strong club in a few years. If we get caught thinking that x coach or x player will alive it for us we will keep declining. I am 100% behind Webster and his team regardless of any short term mistakes. He needs 5 to 7 years at least
snake77
After watching the 2011 Preliminary Final that was replayed on Sky last week and seeing how how forwards just charged at the line I was thinking over the weekend how Addin Fonua-Blake doesn't run too hard. It does seem like he is holding back a bit to ensure he doesn't gas due to how long he's on the field.
He may have always been like this I can't recall what he was like at Manly too much. But he had some runs earlier in the year and earlier in 2021 where he seems to run hard and its like watching someone in under 15s when there was the big guy in the opposition people struggle to contain.
My mate was a good front-rower when he was young. I used to say even though we got him fit he looked like he knew his way around the field to conserve energy. Get back on side just in time, the lines he'd run to get to certain spots etc. I'd describe Addin Fonua-Blake like that as well.
We need him playing long minutes as there is a drop-off when he is off the field.
snake77
Patience, discipline and perseverance are the keywords in your post. The unfortunate thing is we could put the 5-7 years and look back and if we put in place the things we need to do now back then we'd be in a much better place. Sure it can be argued we are all speaking with hindsight but if you look back at various points the last few years there was talk of doing various things but the club never saw them through.
Brian Smith was supposed to sort out development systems etc and restructure us like an NRL club. He left. Not sure if that was lack of support from ownership and management or he was fed up with travelling between Australia and New Zealand. A big what if would of been Gould and if he would of seen it through if there was no covid. He likely would have still been approached by the Bulldogs so it would of been the role he seemed passionate about vs the money at the Bulldogs.
The key thing now is will the club see through Gould's plans or will McFadden stay long enough to sort out the structures of the club. Webster has a hard enough time with turning around the NRL side. Hopefully the two of them are here for a while and things turn around. If it does we need to ensure it continues with whoever takes over.
One thing though even if we had sorted ourselves out years ago covid would still have decimated the club. Imagine if we had a NSW Cup and age group side for years and then the pandemic hit. A lot of them would of moved off to other clubs.
john nick
Brother Faisal
I think if we had kept lodge we would’ve all had a much different outlook on this year. The combination of lodge and Addin Fonua-Blake if healthy I believe could’ve got us 3-4 more wins if you had combined that with tohus return and improvement. I think we would’ve finished 10th or 11rh behind dragons. It’s not massive difference but I believe you need another prop to compliment Addin Fonua-Blake next year otherwise we will have similar results.
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