General Warriors and Religion

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Stone

1st Grade Fringe
May 19, 2012
1,267
Auckland
I'm agnostic but I have no problem whatsoever with people using faith in terms of personally dealing with the trip that is life & death

I also have no problem with athletes using a form of a higher power to gain confidence, motivation & humility etc (Muhammed Ali truly believed that he was an agent of Allah)

My only problem with athletes who are religious is when they pull the cliched "It's all a part of gods plan" line of thought

That line of thought doesn't sit well with me cos it kinda suggests that those athletes (or any person for that matter) believe that the outcome of whatever situation or endeavor they are pursuing is essentially predetermined

I personally think that line of thinking is unproductive overall, cos if you truly believe the outcome of any potential situation is predetermined then you also by default have to believe that there's nothing you can really do to change "gods will" eg; "I think we've got a good chance of winning this thing ... God willing" - a quote from one of my old team mates to which I said "It aint up god whether we win or lose bro ... it's up to us"

In other words, I interpret that as saying we ultimately have no real or lasting influence over anything as everything has already been decided by "gods plan" which I personally find highly disputable & somewhat archaic

Apart from that though, hey all power to them & praise be to Jah :cool::cigar::D (like I said I'm agnostic & not religious but if I was I definitely go Rastafari lol)
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
24,053
I'm agnostic but I have no problem whatsoever with people using faith in terms of personally dealing with the trip that is life & death

I also have no problem with athletes using a form of a higher power to gain confidence, motivation & humility etc (Muhammed Ali truly believed that he was essentially an agent of Allah)

My only problem with athletes who are religious is when they pull the old cliched "It's all a part of gods plan" line of thought

That line of thought doesn't sit well with me because it kinda suggests that those athletes (or any person for that matter) believe that the outcome of whatever situation or endeavor they are pursuing is essentially predetermined

I personally think that line of thinking is ultimately unproductive overall, cos if you truly believe the outcome of any potential situation is predetermined then you also by default have to believe that there's nothing you can really do to change "gods will"

In other words, I interpret that as saying we ultimately have no real influence over anything as everything has already been decided by "gods plan" which I personally find highly disputable & somewhat archaic

Apart from that though, hey all power to them & praise be to Jah :cool::cigar::D (like I said I'm agnostic & not religious but if I was I definitely go Rastafari lol)
In Summary you smoke pot and are not a christian thanks for sharing brother (jokes...this whole thread should be a joke it's insane to talk religion and politics as if sports people have any relevance apart from the greatest who you nominated....Ali had a gift greater than his peers unlike the premiershipless faithful Warriors).

Otherwise one is lead to believe GOD has them on a two decade punishment or test of faith (how likely is that ?.....and are they MORONS if they believe it ? ).

The Multiverse (Physics would suggest a string of universes could mean there are billions of Warriors teams out there over a Multi billion year time frame) some how the good lawd is tuning into watch this side between a billion NBA games and every other letter combination of the sporting alphabet....must have a big TV with a really good remote split screen function.
 

surfin

Warriors 1st Grader
May 9, 2012
6,000
Coromandel
upload_2016-9-26_5-46-51.png
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
Wot a terrible idea for a thread.

jokes...this whole thread should be a joke it's insane to talk religion and politics as if sports people have any relevance apart from the greatest who you nominated....Ali had a gift greater than his peers unlike the premiershipless faithful Warriors

Off topic discussion that was moved. Whether you like it or not the two are inseparable and incidents like those with Ali Lauitiiti and Mick Watson show theres a history of religion and the club mixing.

Anyway poll has been added to see whether this thread stays or goes.

By the way guys this isnt a thread for purely metaphysical discussion. Its about religions effect at the club or sport in general. Feel free to start a thread on religion alone elsewhere...
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
5,773
Putting my belief out there, I think religion is like an adult version of a kid's imaginary friend. However, because I don't have that faith I don't criticise anyone who does. Other than all religions are based on peace love and understanding, which are generally the last things that most churches have.

Players have the right to their beliefs, they need balance in their lives, other things may be education or hobbies.

I remember watching Mick Watson and thinking that he was a total knobend.
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
Not religious myself. More spiritual. That being said my religion is the Warriors and Ive been keeping the faith since 1995. The players, as with all humans, are free to believe in what they want. Theyre no more silly for believing in the Lord and going to church then I am for believing in this team and going to Mt Smart. And as nutty as I am about this club it doesnt affect my work so I dont know why it would the players. They all still play on Sunday dont they???
 
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Stone

1st Grade Fringe
May 19, 2012
1,267
Auckland
I just had an interesting thought on this topic

It seems the general consensus is that the players are free to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't adversely affect their own or the teams performance, which is fine

But we are predominantly basing this on various forms of the Christian faith which while not 100% believed in is still generally widely accepted here in NZ

But, how would we feel if the next Shaun Johnson or David Fusitua type player just so happened to also be a devout member of a particular brand of a certain faith that firmly believes in something that most NZers do not find as tolerable eg: that women are generally a lesser form human beings than men & should cover themselves from head to toe so as not to provocate male arousal etc (I won't name the said religion as that's besides the point)

This is a highly improbable but not impossible situation, let's say this player doesn't let his religion mix with his work, he doesn't impose his faith upon others, his wife or girlfriend shares the same views & the other players generally tolerate his faith cos he's a genuine gun & not a bad guy overall

But we all know what his faith entails & the archaic views he believes in ... how would we all feel then ???
 

Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 30, 2012
7,790
I just had an interesting thought on this topic

It seems the general consensus is that the players are free to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't adversely affect their own or the teams performance, which is fine

But we are predominantly basing this on various forms of the Christian faith which while not 100% believed in is still generally widely accepted here in NZ

But, how would we feel if the next Shaun Johnson or David Fusitua type player just so happened to also be a devout member of a particular brand of a certain faith that firmly believes in something that most NZers do not find as tolerable eg: that women are generally a lesser form human beings than men & should cover themselves from head to toe so as not to provocate male arousal (I won't name the said religion as that's besides the point)

This is a highly improbable but not impossible situation, let's say this player doesn't let his religion mix with his work, he doesn't impose his faith upon others, his wife or girlfriend shares the same views & the other players generally tolerate his faith cos he's a genuine gun & not a bad guy overall

But we all know what his faith entails & the archaic views he believes in ... how would we all feel then ???

I think you will find that true Christians also have similar beleifs, its just that the majority tend to ignore all the bad stuff in the Bible and stick to the nice bits (which predominantly occur in the last 20 pages or so.)
 

eudebrito

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Contributor
May 21, 2013
3,842
But, how would we feel if the next Shaun Johnson or David Fusitua type player just so happened to also be a devout member of a particular brand of a certain faith that firmly believes in something that most NZers do not find as tolerable eg: that women are generally a lesser form human beings than men & should cover themselves from head to toe so as not to provocate male arousal etc (I won't name the said religion as that's besides the point)

This is a highly improbable but not impossible situation, let's say this player doesn't let his religion mix with his work, he doesn't impose his faith upon others, his wife or girlfriend shares the same views & the other players generally tolerate his faith cos he's a genuine gun & not a bad guy overall?

SBW approval rating is at an all-time high, no one cares if they are good at footy.

Would be hilarious if he signed with the warriors and a few of his teammates started doing the palms up to the big A after a win.

Whatever works for ‘em.
 
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Stone

1st Grade Fringe
May 19, 2012
1,267
Auckland
SBW approval rating is at an all-time high, no one cares if they are good at footy.

Would be hilarious if he signed with the warriors and a few of his teammates started doing the palms up to the big A after a win.

Whatever works for ‘em.
I get that bro but SBW practices a relatively generic & benign form of the faith in question

I'm more so talking about someone who is (being careful how I word this now) a fundamentalist believer of a particular brand or sect of a religion that most Kiwis (or most westerners for that matter) would generally have a very strong disapproval towards

I have a hard time accepting that a player with a fundamentalist belief that say most if not all women are vastly inferior to men & should be treated as such (which I'm almost 100% certain is not in any way shape or form a part of SBW's particular belief system) would even be signed by the Warriors (or any NZ pro sports team) much less accepted by the general public, no matter how much of a gun he is on the pitch

Is that right or wrong ???

TBCH I don't really know, but it poses an interesting question ... when does a religious belief become generally unacceptable in a sports team ???

We accept & tolerate Christian based faith because even if we don't personally share the same views or even if we strongly disagree with it's practices it's still a relatively acceptable part of our modern society

But if a player practiced a religious belief that we generally don't accept even if it was acceptable to his own community & wasn't illegal by our laws would we still give that player the same leeway as we currently do for those with forms of faith we currently find less offensive ???

Sorry if I'm going too deep for this thread, I just find this line of thought very interesting, but in saying that this may not necessarily be the right thread to air my somewhat tangential views on this particular topic ... which I also get if that is indeed the case
 
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eudebrito

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Contributor
May 21, 2013
3,842
I get that bro but SBW practices a relatively generic & benign form of the faith in question

I have a hard time accepting that a player with a fundamentalist belief that say most if not all women are vastly inferior to men & should be treated as such (which I'm almost 100% certain is not in any way shape or form a part of SBW's particular belief system) would even be signed by the Warriors (or any NZ pro sports team) much less accepted by the general public, no matter how much of a gun he is on the pitch

But if a player practiced a religious belief that we generally don't accept even if it was acceptable to his own community & wasn't illegal by our laws would we still give that player the same leeway as we currently do for those with forms of faith we currently find less offensive ???

Sorry if I'm going too deep for this thread, I just find this line of thought very interesting, but in saying that this may not necessarily be the right thread to air my somewhat tangential views on this particular topic ... which I also get if that is indeed the case

I think players are pretty savvy with their public image, visiting war orphans = very good, preaching death to the infidels = not so much.

Not that sonny (or whomever) believes in the infidel part, but if they did, they’d have to be unbelievably good, like undisputed best player in the code, for a club to tolerate them openly admitting it, they would keep it to themselves.

The diehard fans would probably talk themselves into “free speech” “he was taken out of context!” “I don’t like gays/jews/americans either!” "teh media is to blame!" but the sponsors and casual followers of the club would run a mile from being associated with fundamentalists.
 

drunk_monk

1st Grade Fringe
May 15, 2014
1,695
I get that bro but SBW practices a relatively generic & benign form of the faith in question

I'm more so talking about someone who is (being careful how I word this now) a fundamentalist believer of a particular brand or sect of a religion that most Kiwis (or most westerners for that matter) would generally have a very strong disapproval towards

I have a hard time accepting that a player with a fundamentalist belief that say most if not all women are vastly inferior to men & should be treated as such (which I'm almost 100% certain is not in any way shape or form a part of SBW's particular belief system) would even be signed by the Warriors (or any NZ pro sports team) much less accepted by the general public, no matter how much of a gun he is on the pitch

Is that right or wrong ???

TBCH I don't really know, but it poses an interesting question ... when does a religious belief become generally unacceptable in a sports team ???

We accept & tolerate Christian based faith because even if we don't personally share the same views or even if we strongly disagree with it's practices it's still a relatively acceptable part of our modern society

But if a player practiced a religious belief that we generally don't accept even if it was acceptable to his own community & wasn't illegal by our laws would we still give that player the same leeway as we currently do for those with forms of faith we currently find less offensive ???

Sorry if I'm going too deep for this thread, I just find this line of thought very interesting, but in saying that this may not necessarily be the right thread to air my somewhat tangential views on this particular topic ... which I also get if that is indeed the case

I suppose it fits into the idea of separating the art from the artist. A terrible person can make great art and the art shouldn't be ignored because of the artist.

If the player comes in and plays and plays well we would support him as a player. If the media got a bone of it, he would have to play amazingly week in and week out and would have to battle the media going after him as if they got a sniff of anything it would be everywhere.

And I'd be torn on it because I'd know to take it with a grain of salt knowing it could be a media beat up. Just look at the Chiefs scandal. so many accusations, so many media reports about the bad culture there, ex-players making themselves relevant again, women's groups etc. talking as if someone had been prosecuted when the accuser didn't do the bare minimum if something went wrong and spoke to police. If she's not willing to make those comments under oath there shouldn't be a single accusation, doesnt stop the media doing damage and basically saying they are guilty.

So if the media beat up a warriors player I'd be very aware it could be manipulated by a few non-bad things, that are twisted by an anti-Muslim writer. On the flip side, if he was caught doing it in public, I don't know. We elevate these players to god status, but they are just employees. If he was coming out and saying in the media stuff like "Insert group here" are just "insert generalist insult here" then it can be seen as damaging the brand and fireable.

But Tyson Fury has gotten away with some horrible comments and hasnt lost his belt so it seems like the consensus is to let that shit go.
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,943
So from your reply there was a drug addiction affecting the mind of the Warriors CEO which made him go loco on things a normal CEO would not have?

I remember at the time the Warriors media-managed it so at sounded like Ali didn't really care about the club and what it stood for and Monty and Stacey were quoted as saying (basically) the club were better off without players like Ali...
Mick Watson is now Sports Director at Rangitoto College. It is one of the most ethnically diverse schools in the country with a large Asian student base. This is what he said about Asians according to Wiki:
"In an interview with the New Zealand Listener, Watson railed against Asian immigration into Australia. He said "as an Australian living here [New Zealand] and with the full intention of staying here, [I say] beware immigration. Just look towards Australia [and what has happened there since] opening the floodgates to South-east Asia. Look at the growing population … of crime, cultures that refuse to accept your culture." Watson, according to the Listener, felt that Asian immigrants had 'ruined' Sydney, and would hate the same to happen to Auckland.[8]"
 

surfin

Warriors 1st Grader
May 9, 2012
6,000
Coromandel
Why delete a thread that is being discussed because some think it's pointless. Just been done with the I'm disgusted thread because one person said they didn't like it coming up on the header page. Surely it was coming up towards the top because people were posting on it. If it's not being viewed it dies a natural death.
 
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jonno

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 13, 2014
9,803
Western civilisation as we currently know it was bourn out of the enlightenment thinkers mid way through the last millennium.

They beat the Christians into submission and separated the dominant Christian sect from the government. They also taught people on mass how to think critically.

Jump is all about being warm and fluffy and making a donation. Your not learning how to win footy games there.

But its not hurting them either. So its OK by me.
 

Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 30, 2012
7,790
I suppose it fits into the idea of separating the art from the artist. A terrible person can make great art and the art shouldn't be ignored because of the artist.

If the player comes in and plays and plays well we would support him as a player. If the media got a bone of it, he would have to play amazingly week in and week out and would have to battle the media going after him as if they got a sniff of anything it would be everywhere.

And I'd be torn on it because I'd know to take it with a grain of salt knowing it could be a media beat up. Just look at the Chiefs scandal. so many accusations, so many media reports about the bad culture there, ex-players making themselves relevant again, women's groups etc. talking as if someone had been prosecuted when the accuser didn't do the bare minimum if something went wrong and spoke to police. If she's not willing to make those comments under oath there shouldn't be a single accusation, doesnt stop the media doing damage and basically saying they are guilty.

So if the media beat up a warriors player I'd be very aware it could be manipulated by a few non-bad things, that are twisted by an anti-Muslim writer. On the flip side, if he was caught doing it in public, I don't know. We elevate these players to god status, but they are just employees. If he was coming out and saying in the media stuff like "Insert group here" are just "insert generalist insult here" then it can be seen as damaging the brand and fireable.

But Tyson Fury has gotten away with some horrible comments and hasnt lost his belt so it seems like the consensus is to let that shit go.

Have you seen the other thread regarding Islam?
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
Why delete a thread that is being discussed because some rink it's pointless. Just been done with the I'm disgusted thread because one person said they didn't like it coming up on the header page. Surely it was coming up towards the top because people were posting on it. If it's not being viewed it dies a natural death.
I just get sick of people complaining about shit and thought it might be a general consensus. I started the thread cause it was clear it was going to take the Recruitment thread way off topic so I cant help but take comments about it being a stupid thread to heart.

Sook Over...
 

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