General Unfair treatment - bunker & refs

[Beastmode]

Warriors see yellow, fans see red

If you’re looking for an unbiased, analytical piece citing statistics, this is not the read for you. This is raw emotion – frustration, indignity…

www.theroar.com.au

we should somehow keep a track of all the decisions that go against us and what it’s cost the club...

two seasons in a row now a bad call has potentially cost us a top 8 finals spot

 

[Fazz]

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but EVERY team is getting horrible calls this year. We're no isolated case. Manly were literally cost two games by horrendous bunker/ref calls after the 70th minute earlier in the year.

I'm not denying that we've had some bad calls, but we've also been given some bad calls as recently as last week. Pompey's try shouldn't have been given.

 

[Bangbros 2023]

I can't believe we are making a thread like this so we can prove kearney was 37% winning coach.

 

[gREVUS]

at the end of the article it states ive done the numbers, they dont support my arguement. Well then post those numbers and this will all go away (probably not).

But i specifically want to see the number of dud calls, in games that are lost by 1 try or less where an apology is given out afterwards. And i want to see the breakdown of every team not just the warriors, cause if there is a team doing it harder than the warriors, they dont deserve this referring bias either.

 

[Old Sid]

Apparently Beau Scott was in the bunker??
I want to know why the hell is an ex Parra player allowed to be a video ref for Parra games...? I think every referee should be made to state why they love the game (assuming they do ?) and which team they supported growing up. ie a declaration of possible conflict of interest that can be taken into account in appointing more neutral officials, and reviewing games and 'clanger' decisions.

 

[gREVUS]

Apparently Beau Scott was in the bunker??
I want to know why the hell is an ex Parra player allowed to be a video ref for Parra games...? I think every referee should be made to state why they love the game (assuming they do ?) and which team they supported growing up. ie a declaration of possible conflict of interest that can be taken into account in appointing more neutral officials, and reviewing games and 'clanger' decisions.

i dont buy into this much, he played for 4 different clubs and only spent 2 years at the eels at the end of his career. Now if he still has involvement with them, and i accept its only been 2 years since his last game, then your right he shouldnt have been there.

But we have seen players become refs who are fair in the past and the example i think of is Henry Peranara. although to be fair his last game was in 2007 and he played for 5 clubs.

So maybe the issue isnt fairness maybe its incompetence.

 

[Flaco]

Apparently Beau Scott was in the bunker??
I want to know why the hell is an ex Parra player allowed to be a video ref for Parra games...? I think every referee should be made to state why they love the game (assuming they do ?) and which team they supported growing up. ie a declaration of possible conflict of interest that can be taken into account in appointing more neutral officials, and reviewing games and 'clanger' decisions.

Henry Perenara played for NZW. He's an on-field ref, sometimes of NZW games. He's SBW's cousin (someone told me). So long as there has been full disclosure of this to the NRL, and he performs, is there a problem? The RL world ain't that big and it can be incestuous at times. But here's my main question: why do people harp about "only looking for consistency"' in referee decisions? Surely, what we want is accuracy, which is not the same thing.

 

[Makasene]

Not for one second do I believe there is a conspiracy against the Warriors. We cop some crook calls but so does everyone else. Where were the conspiracy theorists last year when Fusitua was awarded a try with his hand CLEARLY in touch...

What I do believe to be present is systemic and blatant incompetence. The refs just aren't up to the job and what end up happening are all of these inconsistent and straight up wrong calls.

 

[wizards rage]

Need someone new in charge of the refs as the whole consistency, interpretation and accountability is not up to scratch.

To many games where you know one team is not meant to win and to many times that’s the Warriors.

 

[Beastmode]

Not for one second do I believe there is a conspiracy against the Warriors. We cop some crook calls but so does everyone else. Where were the conspiracy theorists last year when Fusitua was awarded a try with his hand CLEARLY in touch...

What I do believe to be present is systemic and blatant incompetence. The refs just aren't up to the job and what end up happening are all of these inconsistent and straight up wrong calls.

Do I think theres a deliberate secret plan to derail us? No

Do I think theres a subconscious prejudice against our club ? Yes

Look across all codes, from soccer to rugby - when human judgement and interpretation is involved, there is always going to be an element of bias and prejudice. Its human nature.

I'm no psychologist, but it would be a fascinating thesis to research on and prove that refereeing has human bias which can unfairly benefit or disadvantage a team. I think it can be a proven fact if someone did the research.

Maybe someone really smart, with 2 degrees from the top 2 universities in the world can comment? #wrighty

 

[jonesy101]

I say a firm no to any deliberate attempts to manipulate the result of the game when we are involved. If it was to that extent then we would have seen the Eels given some extra seconds to take the tap from that 40/20 just on halftime.

I do think there are a couple of possible factors at play though:

Based on what you see on those league shows across the ditch the Warriors perceived shortcomings have become a cliché. How often do we hear "Massive bodies, gifted athletes but poorly disciplined and little footy brains." That was even being said during the Cappy era where our forward pack had shrunk to one of the smallest in the comp. Such a broad generalisation but sadly that untruth seems to permeate across league circles and perhaps it subconsciously creeps into the minds of match officials too.

Secondly it seems that when a Sydney based team is disadvantaged it blows up into something massive. Just look at what happened when Manly were on the receiving end for a bad forward pass call. It was front page news and debated for weeks. Despite getting some extra attention this year for being based away from home the journalists are generally disinterested about the fortunes of the Warriors. Could it be because the stakes are higher for the other clubs as to why the 50/50s tend to go their way?

 

[Peewee]

Do I think theres a deliberate secret plan to derail us? No

Do I think theres a subconscious prejudice against our club ? Yes

Look across all codes, from soccer to rugby - when human judgement and interpretation is involved, there is always going to be an element of bias and prejudice. Its human nature.

I'm no psychologist, but it would be a fascinating thesis to research on and prove that refereeing has human bias which can unfairly benefit or disadvantage a team. I think it can be a proven fact if someone did the research.

Maybe someone really smart, with 2 degrees from the top 2 universities in the world can comment? #wrighty

The so called TOP TEAMS always seem to get the 50/50 calls go their way.
It happens in Union too. Look at the Crusaders.

 

[Rick O'Shay]

There's always a bias, natural or cultivated.

Just ask anyone from Tokoroa

 

[Flaco]

Do I think theres a deliberate secret plan to derail us? No

Do I think theres a subconscious prejudice against our club ? Yes

Look across all codes, from soccer to rugby - when human judgement and interpretation is involved, there is always going to be an element of bias and prejudice. Its human nature.

I'm no psychologist, but it would be a fascinating thesis to research on and prove that refereeing has human bias which can unfairly benefit or disadvantage a team. I think it can be a proven fact if someone did the research.

Maybe someone really smart, with 2 degrees from the top 2 universities in the world can comment? #wrighty

As you say, the problem is a human one. It is not one that only referees have, or only journalists, or only players, or only fans. It seems that the human species is prone to a variety of subtle cognitive biases, to go with our imperfect sensory systems. Much of the relevant research has been done. The evidence is clear.
Ever noticed how the replay system shows you that, e.g., he touched it down before the deadball line, when your real-time eyes told you he was too late? Why is the psychological effect of playing home games a real one? Why do coaches never, ever complain about officials awarding his team too many penalties? Why do players and fans adopt superstitious behaviours? The biases we (think we) see referees showing in public on the big screen, are the same ones we all reveal less publically, at work, at home, when driving, when watching, when living.

 

[wizards rage]

I can watch a game independently of this site and then come on here after a game and all my complaints are mirrored totally independently.

Some feedback for Wrightys upcoming referee thesis...

 

[BiggerD]

Still that sending off against the Warriors in first half cost them the game.
And Jazz did Nothing wrong

2 tries scored
The lads on their feet in 2nd half and could not cover that last try.

Even Phil Gould was on the Warriors side

 

[Worried2Death]

There are really only two explanations for the perceived bias, it's either ref's perceptual confirmation bias as Flaco says above, or the comp is corrupt and /or rigged. We can't really debate the latter here without getting into legal trouble, so all we have is the subconscious bias theory. It definitely exists imo.

I almost gave up watching NRL in disgust after Jazz got binned, because what's the point. Almost, turns out there's nothing better to watch I have nothing better to do with my life.

 

[jonesy101]

two seasons in a row now a bad call has potentially cost us a top 8 finals spot

Missed out on a top four spot in 2018 too if you factor in that Sharks game where two of the oddest things happened:

We are dominating the second half. The Sharks resort to grubby tactics to disrupt our momentum, but get a succession of penalties against them. Gallen complains to the ref and pushes a very fine line with what he says. In the ensuing set Chris Satae gets penalised for simply playing the ball! The momentum swings and the Sharks continue getting the rub of the green, then ultimately score the match winning try from a pass that went a metre forward with the linesman in clear sight of it.

Instead of a home game and second chance we have to travel to Sydney for week one of the finals.

 

[davo]

recent article highlighting the current effectiveness and contractual agreements surrounding bunker..It`s another massive cost and currently under review..better solutions being considered!


The NRL is looking at alternative referee-assistance technology as the contract for the Bunker draws to a close.

The Bunker was brought into the game on a contractual basis, with the NRL reviewing both the effectiveness of the technology and its cost. The Bunker costs the game upwards of $2 million a year, which is offset by sponsorship deals.



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Head of football Graham Annesley said with the contract coming to an end in the next two months, the NRL needs to ensure the Bunker is still the right fit for the game.

"It's not just an automatic process of renewing those agreements we have to go through a process to look at what other technologies are available, how far technology has come since we first put it in place and whether there are better alternatives," he said.





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Annesley said the review has also looked at bringing the Bunker back to local venues or in a mobile van that would drive from venue to venue. The Bunker is currently in a centralised facility located at Australian Technology Park in Sydney.
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"There is a whole range of different ways of utilising that technology," he said. "That's the work that is underway at the moment to determine the best way forward and the most efficient use of game resources."
The game is also looking at forward-pass technology. About a week ago, Annesley said the NRL was briefed on new skeletal technology that can track whether the hands of a passer is releasing the ball back or forwards.
"I can't tell you it is close, but we are talking to technology providers constantly," he said. "If we are sold on the technology in terms of its effectiveness, it would come down to what is the cost of future research and development to amend it for our own purposes."

The effectiveness of the Bunker was criticised this week after Dragons fullback Matt Dufty seemingly denied Cronulla’s second try, grounding a Chad Townsend grubber ahead of Jack Williams.
Dufty asked referee Grant Atkins if he could use the captain’s challenge for the Bunker to review the try given, but was told it could not be used in that scenario. The error proved crucial in Cronulla’s 28-24 win.

 

[Beastmode]

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