Mr. Muller

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
673
So do you think those who identify as Tongan should be picked in NZ underage rep sides and given the same coaching and opportunities as those who embrace NZ?

Also do you think there is a reason why those in the union system identify as NZers and are determined to play for the All Blacks? Eg Ngani Laumape Is of Tongan descent but is a proud NZ rep.

I think the whole situation has raised a lot of difficult to answer questions with plenty of grey areas

All I know is they were within the eligibility rules to play for Tonga. So you’re asking me if these young kids pledge allegiance to tonga at whatever age they shouldn’t be selected in nz rep sides? What’s to say those who embrace nz at the time don’t turn out for Australia, Queensland or nsw later on in life? Lol (Grey area as you mentioned)

And I couldn’t give a stuff bout union system bro,lol yes like you said ngani laumape tongan decent proud nzer, kinda like me lol
 
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Swanny

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 18, 2017
735
All I know is they were within the eligibility rules to play for Tonga. So you’re asking me if these young kids pledge allegiance to tonga at whatever age they shouldn’t be selected in nz rep sides? What’s to say those who embrace nz at the time don’t turn out for Australia, Queensland or nsw later on in life? Lol (Grey area as you mentioned)

And I couldn’t give a stuff bout union system bro,lol yes like you said ngani laumape tongan decent proud nzer, kinda like me lol

The union comparison I bring up because of the media reporting that on previous Kiwi tours there were players separating into groups based on their heritage, rather than being an inclusive, cohesive group as the AB's seemingly are.

As you say there are plenty of proud NZers with different heritages. Is it the environment that will influence who they choose to represent?
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
So do you think those who identify as Tongan should be picked in NZ underage rep sides and given the same coaching and opportunities as those who embrace NZ?
You think those that identify as NZers should be playing Australian underage rep sides in and given the same coaching and opportunities as those who embrace Australia? You realise how many Kiwis get developed in Aussie right.

Weak argument...
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,927
You think those that identify as NZers should be playing Australian underage rep sides in and given the same coaching and opportunities as those who embrace Australia? You realise how many Kiwis get developed in Aussie right.

Weak argument...
It is not a weak argument at all. A bucket load of money goes on junior development of the game in NZ, and that doesn't count the voluntary club work. If it were not for the NZRL there would be no Tongan rugby league.
 

davewjnz

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 10, 2013
593
Auckland
I can't see any of the former Kiwi or Aussie players from the Tongan team jumping back after this cup, I don't think the Tongan people would forgive them! Taumalolo and Fifita haven't ruled it out in recent interviews though.

New Zealand shouldn't pick anyone out of this current Tongan team, and no one in the current squad should be looking to make themselves available now that their WC campaign has come to an end.
Be interesting to see where they end up on the rankings. Would be pathetic to see members of this current squad play a role in thrashing Tonga by playing for a tier 1 team.
Thus, help pushing them back down the rankings table.

So Tonga needs to retain and build on this current squad of players, start grooming a couple of their own youth teams (under 21, under 18)
Not sure how much money Tonga have but currently they now have a couple of bargaining chips.
Offer NZ a rematch next year @ Mt Smart, offer England a rematch warm up before the 1st Eng vs Kiwi test.
 
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davewjnz

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 10, 2013
593
Auckland
To me Tonga are not yet able to play the structural game and toe it with the Tier 1 teams
Against both NZ and England they were getting left behind on the scoreboard trying to play structure.
Against England they started running the angles and once they scored they got into their rythymn & belief set in. They have the forward power to bust it up the middle when they go hybrid.
Against NZ it took an intercept from Lolohea.
Rest is history really, it almost pulled off a 2nd victory against the Poms.

I posted in here ages ago Lolohea needed to play NSW cup at 5/8 for the year because thats where I saw his future
Cappy had other ideas though, again rest is history
Now if Tui can get that under Cleary (he's still young) I'm guessing grub Reynolds will be at 5/8
Reynolds is good for a couple of suspensions a season
Tonga will have a 5/8 4 years wiser come next WC
Same with Ata at the Warriors.
Time will tell aye...
 
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Raw Power

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 30, 2016
1,098
Brisbane
I can see and genuinely understand all these different view points being put forward, which in itself is a very healthy discussion. There has been for some time concern here in Australia that they are developing talent locally that will end up playing for other nations.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that we in this forum of NZ Warriors rugby league supporters are here for one reason... we absolutely love this game of Rugby League and wish/hope that the game will somehow grow and that many others around the world can discover, embrace and enjoy it as we do!

That somehow, that what this years Rugby League World Cup has given us, may be a catalyst for better things to come.
 

Swanny

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 18, 2017
735
You think those that identify as NZers should be playing Australian underage rep sides in and given the same coaching and opportunities as those who embrace Australia? You realise how many Kiwis get developed in Aussie right.

Weak argument...

That is exactly the point. It is the conversation being had in Australia-why use money and resources to develop the next Benji. This now has relevance in the NZ game as well.

You could argue that making the game as strong as possible at an underage level will inevitably produce the strongest players, even if a few end up swapping allegiances or codes, but at the end of the day everyone likes to see a return on their investment. Especially now with education and injury management costs.
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,927
You could argue that making the game as strong as possible at an underage level will inevitably produce the strongest players, even if a few end up swapping allegiances or codes, but at the end of the day everyone likes to see a return on their investment. Especially now with education and injury management costs.
IMO the nations thing is like Peter Fitzsimons said a farce. These guys are New Zealanders or Australians. Leave the Pacifika angle out and somebody tell me that rugby league made the news in Ireland, Scotland or Lebanon FFS.

What the international board is doing is weakening NZ rugby league to promote hybrid teams. Let them do it but it will do nothing for the international game in the long run.
 

usiz.king

U20's Player
Mar 15, 2016
21
IMO the nations thing is like Peter Fitzsimons said a farce. These guys are New Zealanders or Australians. Leave the Pacifika angle out and somebody tell me that rugby league made the news in Ireland, Scotland or Lebanon FFS.

What the international board is doing is weakening NZ rugby league to promote hybrid teams. Let them do it but it will do nothing for the international game in the long run.
Lols get over it. They picked tonga because thats what they see them self as. Just like when
IMO the nations thing is like Peter Fitzsimons said a farce. These guys are New Zealanders or Australians. Leave the Pacifika angle out and somebody tell me that rugby league made the news in Ireland, Scotland or Lebanon FFS.

What the international board is doing is weakening NZ rugby league to promote hybrid teams. Let them do it but it will do nothing for the international game in the long run.
Every1 just needs to get over it. All the players in this tonga team see them self as tongan 1st. You can moan about them being born in nz and aus as much as you want but at the end of the day they are still tongan by blood.
 
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YeahNah 4020

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 6, 2017
557
Tonga is and well deserved to be the Headline of the WC, they came, they saw, they kicked some ass!

They players who represented Tonga all deserve credit and respect.

HOWEVER, the solution is simple and covers all sides, you can choose what team you play for and proudly represent your heritage BUT once you make that decision there is no return to the Tier 1 teams.

So wear your heritage proudly but make your decision wisely.

All teams need players who believe and bleed for their countries not part timers.

Brothers and sisters this argument is starting to have a negeative undertone to it and now that both the Kiwi and Tongan teams are eliminated we can let this rest and all hope somehow England beat Australia and it is a WC to go down in the history books!!
 

Defence

Warriors 1st Grader
May 9, 2012
6,239
The nzrfl are damned if they do and damned if they don't- u really want to put your resources into young players who are aspiring to represent u but u can't just shut kids out just because they might opt to represent their heritage- that's only gonna push them further away and would be pretty racist anyway tbh.
If I was them I would be pushing to scrap the grandparent rule- that way in another generation most of them wouldnt be eligible anyway :)
Seriously tho I've never been a fan of people repping a country because one of their grandparents came from there- seems a bit of a stretch to me.

Anyway back to tonga because they deserve their moment in the sun-
What incredibly powerful athletes they are and their fans have been amazing for the cup- but this whole petition and marching through Auckland is a bit embarrassing isn't it haha.
The better team won on the day tbh and good on the poms because watching the teams line up and the crowd going off I turned to my bro and said "fark I'd hate to be playing for England today".
 

Makasene

1st Grade Fringe
May 10, 2012
1,950
Tonga were their own worst enemy, a miracle comeback for the ages nearly masked the fact that they blew that game.

Jennings passing off the ground

Tupou doing his best Manu impression with the line wide open

Ma'u turning it over tackle one in the 20 off a penalty.

The right decision was made in the end, you have to put some sort of accountability on the ball carrier. Fifita lost the ball forward. Game over
 

flying coconut

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 21, 2012
1,086
Lets look at the big picture of Tonga at this world cup

Scotland - Put some points on the easy beats of the comp in the first half
Samoa - Pretty even contest that they won thanks to Maumalo againt an awful Samoan team
NZ - Were outplayed in the first half and lucky that Kiwis took sleeping pills at half time thinking they had won
Lebanon - Were very lucky to beat the last ranked team in the World Cup
England - Apart from the last 7 minutes were fully outclassed

Forget the hype and the supporters, this team under performed considering the players they had
 

Worried2Death

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 6, 2016
3,476
Lets look at the big picture of Tonga at this world cup

Scotland - Put some points on the easy beats of the comp in the first half
Samoa - Pretty even contest that they won thanks to Maumalo againt an awful Samoan team
NZ - Were outplayed in the first half and lucky that Kiwis took sleeping pills at half time thinking they had won
Lebanon - Were very lucky to beat the last ranked team in the World Cup
England - Apart from the last 7 minutes were fully outclassed

Forget the hype and the supporters, this team under performed considering the players they had

Agreed except for the halves, I think Ata and Tui performed above expectations given their limited experience. Still not good enough to outclass the Poms, and lucky to avoid humiliation against Aussie.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,927
Agreed except for the halves, I think Ata and Tui performed above expectations given their limited experience. Still not good enough to outclass the Poms, and lucky to avoid humiliation against Aussie.
Ata is an interesting case. I doubt whether the NZ selectors asked him about playing for NZ and if not his decision to play for Tonga is ok by me.
Then there is the question why was he not approached by the NZ selectors? He has shown form for Tonga since last year and was worthy of consideration. That was a genuine international test, and so was the game against NZ. He sure played like he belonged at that level and I doubt would have let down the Kiwi jersey. Kearney has a headache selecting his halves next season for sure. When have we been able to say that?
 

matiunz

All Out!
Contributor
Jul 15, 2013
8,642
Sydney
Not really getting the Ata love, don’t think he was much more than passable and went missing when England took on and arguably bettered Tonga’s pack- which is exactly what he’ll get with the Warriors.
He’ll get there but isn’t there yet
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,927
Not really getting the Ata love, don’t think he was much more than passable and went missing when England took on and arguably bettered Tonga’s pack- which is exactly what he’ll get with the Warriors.
He’ll get there but isn’t there yet
I take your point. My point is that game was above NRL standard, it was an international. Sure Australia would have put 30 points on them both but they would do that to most NRL sides as well. So I think he is there but has a lot of improvement in him.
 

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