Staff Todd Payten

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Both parties owe a debt to each other probably.....Paytens new standing in the game and widespread admiration and reputation as a coach in demand is down to the efforts of this Warriors playing group.

He however got these efforts i think, from holding his players accountable (something Kearney never seemed to do) questioning their resolve early on in the piece, holding sacred cows like Blair and Green to the same standards as everyone else and acting when they didnt meet these standards, as well as other under performing players like Papali'i.

I'll be interested in seeing if he can get the same sort of buy in from the Cowboys group.....if he does then yeah....he could be a coach for the ages.

Definitely coach of the year in my books.

The stats dont accurately capture what he's accomplished.

Well exceeded my expectations.
 
Definitely coach of the year in my books.

The stats dont accurately capture what he's accomplished.

Well exceeded my expectations.
A number of Aussie reporters agree with you.

 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
A number of Aussie reporters agree with you.

yea but the game is about results and in that department Ivan Cleary kicks arse. He should win it easily, if he doesnt its a real snub to an outstanding team and coach.

I know everyone loves an underdog story, but TP has taken a team on 2 wins 4 loses and -50 to currently 7 wins 12 loses and -127 and 12th on the ladder, with one game to go.

i dont know how i am so disconnected with so many people on this, maybe its lockdown talking but what i am seeing is hope, what i am not seeing is results. He may turn into the greatest coach of all time, by some miracle beating both Bennet and Bellamy. But nothing i have seen this year makes me think that he has significantly changed the team he was already involved with in an real positive manner. If he had stayed another year, I may have been made to eat these words, and i would have happily. But well never get to find out now, and the worse of it all is that I rate him ahead of NB.
 
yea but the game is about results and in that department Ivan Cleary kicks arse. He should win it easily, if he doesnt its a real snub to an outstanding team and coach.
The game is about results, coaching is about getting the most out of what you have got to work with.

- Payton had the biggest range of players to work with (Warriors have used the most players this season)
- Payton has had the biggest skill deficit to work with due to playing the most reserve graders this season.
- Payton had loan players that had to be bought into the structure at short notice and still managed to perform.
- Payton had more off field issues to deal with (players going home, last coach sacked, his own off field issues, longest isolation, etc) yet still had the team ready to play to a high level each week
- Payton did not have a preseason to get the players set up within his structure. No other coach had to hit the ground running like he did.
- Through all that Payton took a team that was looking at the spoon and made them competitive. Most players are out performing expectations.

I honestly don’t know how much is skills based coaching and how much is setting up a culture and letting the players go for it, but as a coach this year he has been a phenomenal success.

I know everyone loves an underdog story, but TP has taken a team on 2 wins 4 loses and -50 to currently 7 wins 12 loses and -127 and 12th on the ladder, with one game to go.
I appreciate those stats are not flash, but if you exclude Patyons 1st game - the Storm 46 point thrashing as a disrupted settling in period, then the stats become 5 wins 7 loses and -21 during Payton’s rein which in the context that he had a spoon contending player squad, is competitive. Take out the Sharks 36 point drubbing when the home bound players group had already checked out and when it was still Blake Greens team (which is not representative of our current squad) and it looks even better with a positive points differential.
 
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gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
Eh... in a game with such high variance I would take results with a grain of salt.

In terms of judging the process, instead of the results... did you see the chase on the team when the raiders got the intercept to score in a dead rubber game??!? Is it too late to keep Payten?
I did and do you remember the score for that game? Chasing a ball that you threw away is all good, but winning it is better.
I dont know how you judge a process to be better than another process without factoring into it results.
I'm not saying SK was the answer, we all know he wasnt. But he did have some good ideas and made significant changes to this team. TP while a late entry to the team, may have made a difference, but with so many factors at play this year, we really have no idea if he did or didnt. Therefore we look at results and if they lose this week they will slip back to 13th with a more than - 127 deficit in the for and against column. This is in no way superior to what SK was achieving.
Like i said earlier, I see hope that the team have crested a ridge and are finally on the way back to greatness, but the results atm do not agree with this. If they lose by a single point or 100 its still 2 points in the bank for another team.
 
Eh... in a game with such high variance I would take results with a grain of salt.

In terms of judging the process, instead of the results... did you see the chase on the team when the raiders got the intercept to score in a dead rubber game??!? Is it too late to keep Payten?
About 5-6 players chasing back, pretty epic attitude.
Hiku
Harris
Chanel Harris-Tavita
Are the ones I can remember
 
Quite a turn around from when he turned the head coaching role down. A lot of people had the pitch forks sharpened and were pointing out how the club is sinking.

A credit to the players and Payten for turning things around and earning respect. Like he said he likely wouldn't of got the Cowboys job if their season continued the way it was going.

Hopefully we see the steel he has added into the team continue.
 
I did and do you remember the score for that game? Chasing a ball that you threw away is all good, but winning it is better.
I dont know how you judge a process to be better than another process without factoring into it results.
I'm not saying SK was the answer, we all know he wasnt. But he did have some good ideas and made significant changes to this team. TP while a late entry to the team, may have made a difference, but with so many factors at play this year, we really have no idea if he did or didnt. Therefore we look at results and if they lose this week they will slip back to 13th with a more than - 127 deficit in the for and against column. This is in no way superior to what SK was achieving.
Like i said earlier, I see hope that the team have crested a ridge and are finally on the way back to greatness, but the results atm do not agree with this. If they lose by a single point or 100 its still 2 points in the bank for another team.

Because results alone don't mean the process is good or justify the process. If you put the $100 into a pokie machine and win the jackpot, and decide that this is a process for making money, you're going to be wrong, despite the short term result. And I think results in the nrl are much more short term than we think. (compared to something like basketball - lots of points, and multiple playoff games = reducing how much luck factors into the champion team)
Chance, or luck, I think, plays a much bigger factor in this game than people would like to admit. Good coaches, imo, are good because they make the right decisions with that they have. Todd Payten demonstrated this.
It's also why I like watching the work of Bennett, Bellamy, and Cleary. They work well with what they got and they put structures into their game plans and you can see the players executing them. They read the game, and the work at exploiting high percentage situations and adapt to the game (rules changes, etc.)I think Sticky is "ok" at this too.
(and it's personally why i think Trent Robinson is a little overrated - if your process is "buy the best players and nearly get the spoon when you can't have them" then you're overrated imo and winning back to back was like rolling triple 6s with die - statistically inevitable if you give someone enough chances)
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
Because results alone don't mean the process is good or justify the process. If you put the $100 into a pokie machine and win the jackpot, and decide that this is a process for making money, you're going to be wrong, despite the short term result. And I think results in the nrl are much more short term than we think. (compared to something like basketball - lots of points, and multiple playoff games = reducing how much luck factors into the champion team)
Chance, or luck, I think, plays a much bigger factor in this game than people would like to admit. Good coaches, imo, are good because they make the right decisions with that they have. Todd Payten demonstrated this.
It's also why I like watching the work of Bennett, Bellamy, and Cleary. They work well with what they got and they put structures into their game plans and you can see the players executing them. They read the game, and the work at exploiting high percentage situations and adapt to the game (rules changes, etc.)I think Sticky is "ok" at this too.
(and it's personally why i think Trent Robinson is a little overrated - if your process is "buy the best players and nearly get the spoon when you can't have them" then you're overrated imo and winning back to back was like rolling triple 6s with die - statistically inevitable if you give someone enough chances)
i guess the problem with your view of the process and the example you have given is that the storm have sat at the top of the table - forever it feels like. Luck might get them there, once or twice, but after that you have to acknowledge that process does have a place. And interestingly enough i was listening to commentary the other day and Ivan credits the process as well.

So i say all hail the magical process.

But seriously SK may not have been the solution, for this year, but without the work he has done over the past things this year may have been very different.

However the results are what they are. TP and the team did an ok job. But they still didnt make the 8. And in my world results matter. I would love to have seen what TP would have achieved next year, but it is not to be. hopefully they will kick on with this award winning new coach.... oh yea, wooden spoons.... but maybe his great support staff ... oh yea more wooden spoons...

oh well long live the process...
 
Well, the Cowboys were my Third Team even before this year and what Mr Payten's done for the Warriors.

Wish the man all the best - just remember to tell the boys to drop their bundle when playing the Warriors, hey, Todd? - for the future.
 
Todd did amazingly well in the circumstances however I am not totally sold on him as a coach able to take the team to the next level.

will be very interested to see how he goes with the cowgirls

I feel the same. When you hear him talk about how he got us improving it was all let them relax and play free etc. If we had him signed next year I would not be convinced we will continue the same form. People need to be careful about expectations. I for one will be shocked if we show the same attitude etc to start next year
 

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