Internationals The Kearney/kiwis Coach Thread

Should Stephen Kearney be retained as head coach of the Kiwis?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 16.3%
  • No

    Votes: 41 83.7%

  • Total voters
    49
Graham Lowe seemed out of touch with the game when he was commentating in the early 90's. He has lead a pretty interesting life; who else goes from high profile coaching/commentating to driving a Taxi to being a CEO of a sports franchise.

The shortlist is pretty bad considering this is for the former world champions; and with the amount of talent coming from NZ that will soon be flooding the NRL we keep hearing about. The jobs is obviously not that appealing; sad indictment of international league really.
 
Kidwell out of that list for mine.

Like Kearney he has been exposed to the best. unlike Kearney he is a shrewd hard individual that no one would dare piss around with Sleeping pills and energy drinks on his watch.
 
Of the mentioned short list, my preference is Kidwell. No other reason than I liked his hard-man approach.

I know you just picking the best from that list, but is he really the best person to lead NZ? he's a hard-man, but can he coach? Or do we have to wait for 2-3 years of losing everything to australia before we realise, maybe he's jsut a hard-man afterall. I love the passion of David Kidwell in his playing days (still remember that shot he put up on Willie Mason), but at some point you have to put that aside and look at what else he brings to the table. Like Kearney he's only been an assitant at Melbourne. Does that approach work with the kiwis? Can he come up with something Kearney hasnt been able to with the kiwis and with eels. Too many unknowns to make him the head coach of NZ aye

But everyone is upset that we are after coaches with limited or no real top level experience. The way I see it, until we see the entire Aussie team turned over, and an epic squad of future NZ superheros, there is no point playing the standard game against Australia. I reckon we get a fruitloop coach with some crazy game plans and we stun Australia out of the games. Come at them with nothing but razzle dazzle, and no fear, or a strategy of crush them into the dust, even if we end up playing 10 on 13 through send-offs. Forget trying to outmuscle Oz throughout 80 minutes, it can't be done, but make them scared to hit the ball up, and see how we go. Or don't try to out-defend them, because they will just wear us down and an Inglis, or Smith, or Thurston will just create something undefendable to take the lead, and we won't have the ability to run them down.

if this aussie team turns over then the next one that will come up will be better than this one. Cant wait for them to go down by themselves aye. And I dont think the kiwis are that far behind either. We have the best hooker in the game (I think luke is just an influential as cam smith, although without a kicking game), The best second rower in the game (SBW, in the WC and this years azac test atlest), last years best winger in the comp, I'd reckon the best lock in the game (if you play mannering there), one of the best halves in the game in kieran foran, a pretty good forward pack, a halfback with some neat skills, we have guys like Tim Samona coming up who are absolute super stars...this team (excluding substandard players like elijah, goodwin) can beat australia.They just need to come up with the right game plan. And they need a genius of coach to do that. Mediocre coaches will come up with mediocre strategies like, playing elijah taylor, playing goodwin, not playing hoffman, not playing eastwood. Both Australia and NZ had problem at centres in WC last year, contrary to poupular choice (Michael Jennings) Tim Sheens came up with Jarryd Hayne and it worked like a charm. What did we do, we did nothing....that is what mediocity does, it leads to more mediocrity. Which is why this was our chance to come up somethign redically different, shake up NZ rugby league...put us on a path to winning back the WC the next time. But they've chosen the worst possible options that they could.

Scare australians to hit the ball up? are you serious? you want to scare Paul Gallen, James Tamou, Greg Bird, Nate Myles, Sam Thaiday, Luke Lewis, Glenn Stewart. These guys play origin football, smashing and getting smashed is what they are good at.You have to get into the arm wrestle with them for 80mins, make sure that scores are tied or we are in lead at the 70th min mark and see if you can get them nervous. The defence has to be water tight, the attack has to happen at speed, and for the first time we have players who are capable of doing that. Lesser qld teams of 80's and 90's have beaten NSW sides with superstars...even now, star studded QLD lineup gets beaten once every year by NSW sides who are lead by Mitchell Pierce (the most over rated half in the game) and co. So its not that we cant do it, we just havent had the right people supporting the team to do it..

Is it just a coincidence that we won the world cup when we had Wayne Bennet in the support staff?
 
Heard a radio report about Graham lowe suggesting Stacey Jones as the best option, I nearly choked on my breakfast...

If I had to chose between Stephen Kearney, Richie Blackmore, David Kidwell, Glenn Morrison and Stacey Jones...I'd probably pick Stacey Jones too.
I havent followed what Stacey Jones has done since retiring, but he's one of hte best players NZ has produced. He'd certainly have the respect of any NZ players. Being a halfback, he would have been highly involved in developing strategies to beat oppositions all through out his career, he's probably capable of coming up with a decent plan against australia. Whether he can do the other stuff, like man management, communicating with players, getting the best out of players etc im not sure

May not be the best option but compared to what NZRL is doing I dont see what so wrong with it
 
If I had to chose between Stephen Kearney, Richie Blackmore, David Kidwell, Glenn Morrison and Stacey Jones...I'd probably pick Stacey Jones too.
I havent followed what Stacey Jones has done since retiring, but he's one of hte best players NZ has produced. He'd certainly have the respect of any NZ players. Being a halfback, he would have been highly involved in developing strategies to beat oppositions all through out his career, he's probably capable of coming up with a decent plan against australia. Whether he can do the other stuff, like man management, communicating with players, getting the best out of players etc im not sure

May not be the best option but compared to what NZRL is doing I dont see what so wrong with it


Explain to me why the reasons you say Kidwell may not be up for it are virtually the same reasons you think Stacey would be. Especially when you take into account that Kidwell coaching experience far outweighs Staceys.
 
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I know you just picking the best from that list, but is he really the best person to lead NZ? he's a hard-man, but can he coach? Or do we have to wait for 2-3 years of losing everything to australia before we realise, maybe he's jsut a hard-man afterall. I love the passion of David Kidwell in his playing days (still remember that shot he put up on Willie Mason), but at some point you have to put that aside and look at what else he brings to the table. Like Kearney he's only been an assitant at Melbourne. Does that approach work with the kiwis? Can he come up with something Kearney hasnt been able to with the kiwis and with eels. Too many unknowns to make him the head coach of NZ aye



if this aussie team turns over then the next one that will come up will be better than this one. Cant wait for them to go down by themselves aye. And I dont think the kiwis are that far behind either. We have the best hooker in the game (I think luke is just an influential as cam smith, although without a kicking game), The best second rower in the game (SBW, in the WC and this years azac test atlest), last years best winger in the comp, I'd reckon the best lock in the game (if you play mannering there), one of the best halves in the game in kieran foran, a pretty good forward pack, a halfback with some neat skills, we have guys like Tim Samona coming up who are absolute super stars...this team (excluding substandard players like elijah, goodwin) can beat australia.They just need to come up with the right game plan. And they need a genius of coach to do that. Mediocre coaches will come up with mediocre strategies like, playing elijah taylor, playing goodwin, not playing hoffman, not playing eastwood. Both Australia and NZ had problem at centres in WC last year, contrary to poupular choice (Michael Jennings) Tim Sheens came up with Jarryd Hayne and it worked like a charm. What did we do, we did nothing....that is what mediocity does, it leads to more mediocrity. Which is why this was our chance to come up somethign redically different, shake up NZ rugby league...put us on a path to winning back the WC the next time. But they've chosen the worst possible options that they could.

Scare australians to hit the ball up? are you serious? you want to scare Paul Gallen, James Tamou, Greg Bird, Nate Myles, Sam Thaiday, Luke Lewis, Glenn Stewart. These guys play origin football, smashing and getting smashed is what they are good at.You have to get into the arm wrestle with them for 80mins, make sure that scores are tied or we are in lead at the 70th min mark and see if you can get them nervous. The defence has to be water tight, the attack has to happen at speed, and for the first time we have players who are capable of doing that. Lesser qld teams of 80's and 90's have beaten NSW sides with superstars...even now, star studded QLD lineup gets beaten once every year by NSW sides who are lead by Mitchell Pierce (the most over rated half in the game) and co. So its not that we cant do it, we just havent had the right people supporting the team to do it..

Is it just a coincidence that we won the world cup when we had Wayne Bennet in the support staff?
I think you have put too much into how we won the World Cup. We were incredibly lucky. We got the luck Australia normally get. We were beaten earlier.

We have never been able to arm wrestle them for anything close to 80 minutes. Generally a 40 minute arm wrestle is a good effort from us. There is no point trying to out-Australia Australia. No one can do it. We have to have our own gameplan, and play our own game. We have only managed to win big finals games through dramatic errors or incredible luck. And the teams that have won the big matches have not been teams made up of the superstars you list. It has generally been teams with many second choice and surprise picks. We have an uncanny ability to lose our best before big matches.

Of course Bennett was the party responsible for our success. Only Kearney believes otherwise, but I don't thin Wayne Bennett would even be a good enough coach to beat Australia regularly.

And yes, I am serious. As stated, I am willing to see players sent off to show how hard we can hit. These guys you listed will only compete for so long. If we play like crazy men with no regard or respect for the opposition then we win big or we lose big, but at least we change the game.

If I had to chose between Stephen Kearney, Richie Blackmore, David Kidwell, Glenn Morrison and Stacey Jones...I'd probably pick Stacey Jones too.
I havent followed what Stacey Jones has done since retiring, but he's one of hte best players NZ has produced. He'd certainly have the respect of any NZ players. Being a halfback, he would have been highly involved in developing strategies to beat oppositions all through out his career, he's probably capable of coming up with a decent plan against australia. Whether he can do the other stuff, like man management, communicating with players, getting the best out of players etc im not sure

May not be the best option but compared to what NZRL is doing I dont see what so wrong with it
I'm not entirely sure that Stacey would have the respect of everyone. Wasn't he implicated in the match fixing that went on in one of the Auckland comps a couple of years back? I'm not sure if that sort of strategy would work at International level.
 
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Explain to me why the reasons you say Kidwell may not be up for it are virtually the same reasons you think Stacey would be. Especially when you take into account that Kidwell coaching experience far outweighs Staceys.

I didnt say Stacey jones was up for it. As I've been whinging about in the previous posts, I think they really should have chased a successful current or ex NRL coach. What I dont quiet agree with was the people thinking graham lowe suggesting Stacey Jones was ridiculous however we are willing to accept the shortlist put out by NZRL, In my opinion they are just as ridiculous as each other and if I was forced to I would go with Stacey Jones over the others.

Neither kidwell or stacey have coached at first class level so for me they are both on par in that regard. I dont think couple of years as an assistant coach readies you for the challenges of this level (as proven time and again by Stephen Kearney). So if its between an "enforcer" and a smart playmaker, I'd go with the smart playmaker. For ex. given the choice between Darren Lockyer or Tallis (who was assitant with souths for a couple of seasons) who would you go with for the next qld coach? Most people have locked Lockyer in to take on that role in future. Andrew Johns Or say a Mark O'Mealy or Luke O'Donnell (if they have a season or two of lower level coaching) to take over the NSW reigns....most people would go with Johns. Are Lockyer or Johns guaranteed success, obviously not....but I'd be more inclined to give them the opportunity.
 
I didnt say Stacey jones was up for it. As I've been whinging about in the previous posts, I think they really should have chased a successful current or ex NRL coach. What I dont quiet agree with was the people thinking graham lowe suggesting Stacey Jones was ridiculous however we are willing to accept the shortlist put out by NZRL, In my opinion they are just as ridiculous as each other and if I was forced to I would go with Stacey Jones over the others.

Neither kidwell or stacey have coached at first class level so for me they are both on par in that regard. I dont think couple of years as an assistant coach readies you for the challenges of this level (as proven time and again by Stephen Kearney). So if its between an "enforcer" and a smart playmaker, I'd go with the smart playmaker. For ex. given the choice between Darren Lockyer or Tallis (who was assitant with souths for a couple of seasons) who would you go with for the next qld coach? Most people have locked Lockyer in to take on that role in future. Andrew Johns Or say a Mark O'Mealy or Luke O'Donnell (if they have a season or two of lower level coaching) to take over the NSW reigns....most people would go with Johns. Are Lockyer or Johns guaranteed success, obviously not....but I'd be more inclined to give them the opportunity.

Great players aren't a guarantee of a great coach, ask Mark Graham. the other problem with your theory, first of all the super coach you want has to actually want the job in the first place and seeing how it doesn't appear any of them wanted it, it makes it a little difficult to give them the job. As far as I know going on quotes from Lockyer himself he doesn't want to be a coach, so again that could make it a little difficult to give him the job, Andrew Johns has been part of the NSW coaching squad, that doesn't appear to have gone along that flash the last 8 years, plus a few poorly thought out comments about Greg Inglis didn't help much either. Lack of experience again didn't seem to hurt Trent Robinson or Daniel Anderson who until he coached the Warriors had only been in charge of school kids, then you have a guy like Brian Smith that has more experience than just about anyone coaching anywhere in the world, yet he has had no success. Simple truth some people can coach some can't, if you wait for a guy like Kidwell to get first grade experience before you hire him, what makes you think he'll want the job if it turns out he can coach and his value goes up. As far as I can see Kearney has had his shot, the team hasn't progressed from when he took over, time for someone new. And since it won't be Bennett or Bellamy time to pick from the best we have available.
 
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We have never been able to arm wrestle them for anything close to 80 minutes. Generally a 40 minute arm wrestle is a good effort from us. There is no point trying to out-Australia Australia. No one can do it. We have to have our own gameplan, and play our own game. We have only managed to win big finals games through dramatic errors or incredible luck. And the teams that have won the big matches have not been teams made up of the superstars you list. It has generally been teams with many second choice and surprise picks. We have an uncanny ability to lose our best before big matches.

thats because we've never had the team to go with australia for 80mins...but I think thats changing. If you look at the players, most of them are one of the best players in the comp or one of the best at their clubs. I really think we can beat aus more regularly, we just have to be more desperate..we have to "hate" them more. qld teams of 80's and 90's had far less stars than the NSW sides yet until recently qld was on par with total games won...yes we will always be weaker than aus (they have bigger pool to pick players from) but I think we are close enough now that we can make up for it with pure desperation. win/lose or draw, QLD always used to be the last to score...we need to have that kind of attitude. We have to want to win it more than them, but based on what some of the players were upto and that disappointing performance in WC, its obvious their attitude is shit...

And yes, I am serious. As stated, I am willing to see players sent off to show how hard we can hit. These guys you listed will only compete for so long. If we play like crazy men with no regard or respect for the opposition then we win big or we lose big, but at least we change the game.
If those guys depart they just get more of them....Andrew fafita has been massive. James Tamou is still young. There's tons of second rowers...That strategy is not a long term one aye? Aus will just weather the storm for first 20mins...and put the boot to us in the 2nd half when we have run out of petrol. They've done that to us for so long...If you cant out-australia australia in strategy, can it be done in physical stakes?...Its not easy to pummell aus for 80mins, these guys are best in the comp too...you just have to go with them for 80mins..just hang in there, get them nervous in last 10mins...push anyone to the limit, and they will crack...you have to make sure to be close enough to capitalise on it..we will lose when they dont crack, we will win when they do...
 
Great players aren't a guarantee of a great coach, ask Mark Graham. the other problem with your theory, first of all the super coach you want has to actually want the job in the first place and seeing how it doesn't appear any of them wanted it, it makes it a little difficult to give them the job. As far as I know going on quotes from Lockyer himself he doesn't want to be a coach, so again that could make it a little difficult to give him the job, Andrew Johns has been part of the NSW coaching squad, that doesn't appear to have gone along that flash the last 8 years, plus a few poorly thought out comments about Greg Inglis didn't help much either. Lack of experience again didn't seem to hurt Trent Robinson or Daniel Anderson who until he coached the Warriors had only been in charge of school kids, then you have a guy like Brian Smith that has more experience than just about anyone coaching anywhere in the world, yet he has had no success. Simple truth some people can coach some can't, if you wait for a guy like Kidwell to get first grade experience before you hire him, what makes you think he'll want the job if it turns out he can coach and his value goes up. As far as I can see Kearney has had his shot, the team hasn't progressed from when he took over, time for someone new. And since it won't be Bennett or Bellamy time to pick from the best we have available.

But if Lockyer came out and said, I want to coach QLD, you would consider him aye...and he'd probably have quiet a bit of support although he has no coaching experience. Like I said, ofcourse there's no guarantee that he would be any good, but you would give him a crack at it.

Like I mentioned in the earlier post, I am not saying that we should be making Stacey jones the head coach of NZ. He obviously hasnt put his hat in the ring, so that obviously wont eventuate. My response was to comments stating how ridiculous it was for graham lowe to be suggesting that stacey jones should be given the opportunity. For me, its not that riduculous. If a Bennett/Bellamy/hasler or maybe even someone like steve folks etc wanted the job I wouldnt even consider Stacey BUT because of the the other options we are looking atm, if he did put his hand up I'd consider him
 
thats because we've never had the team to go with australia for 80mins...but I think thats changing. If you look at the players, most of them are one of the best players in the comp or one of the best at their clubs. I really think we can beat aus more regularly, we just have to be more desperate..we have to "hate" them more. qld teams of 80's and 90's had far less stars than the NSW sides yet until recently qld was on par with total games won...yes we will always be weaker than aus (they have bigger pool to pick players from) but I think we are close enough now that we can make up for it with pure desperation. win/lose or draw, QLD always used to be the last to score...we need to have that kind of attitude. We have to want to win it more than them, but based on what some of the players were upto and that disappointing performance in WC, its obvious their attitude is shit...


If those guys depart they just get more of them....Andrew fafita has been massive. James Tamou is still young. There's tons of second rowers...That strategy is not a long term one aye? Aus will just weather the storm for first 20mins...and put the boot to us in the 2nd half when we have run out of petrol. They've done that to us for so long...If you cant out-australia australia in strategy, can it be done in physical stakes?...Its not easy to pummell aus for 80mins, these guys are best in the comp too...you just have to go with them for 80mins..just hang in there, get them nervous in last 10mins...push anyone to the limit, and they will crack...you have to make sure to be close enough to capitalise on it..we will lose when they dont crack, we will win when they do...
You keep repeating that we just have to stay with them for 80 minutes. We have never been able to, so what is the key to suddenly turning it around? I can't see Stacey Jones having the answer. And, in fact, I can't see Bennett or Bellamy, or anyone else well known having the answer.

If the answer was obvious, we would have found it more often than we have in the MANY times we have gone out there to "stay with them in the arm wrestle". We need freak plays, like the ridiculous pass that saw Fein score, the Slater fumble for Benji, and the penalty try for Lance. You don't get this in 80 minute arm wrestles, you get this with risk.
 
You keep repeating that we just have to stay with them for 80 minutes. We have never been able to, so what is the key to suddenly turning it around? I can't see Stacey Jones having the answer. And, in fact, I can't see Bennett or Bellamy, or anyone else well known having the answer.

If the answer was obvious, we would have found it more often than we have in the MANY times we have gone out there to "stay with them in the arm wrestle". We need freak plays, like the ridiculous pass that saw Fein score, the Slater fumble for Benji, and the penalty try for Lance. You don't get this in 80 minute arm wrestles, you get this with risk.

Hope you realise Nig, we won the World Cup in '08' doing everything your knocking. Putting pressure on the aussies created all those winning moments and if you don't keep that pressure up for 80mins against the aussies kiss your arse goodbye.
 

tajhay

🏉
Hope you realise Nig, we won the World Cup in '08' doing everything your knocking. Putting pressure on the aussies created all those winning moments and if you don't keep that pressure up for 80mins against the aussies kiss your arse goodbye.
I think that is exactly what Nig is saying. To basically chance your arm, to try things. The Australian team is far superior to that of the kiwis. We cant beat them if we try to be in '80 min arm wrestle'. Arm wrestle in this instance probably implying to keep things tight, to do the basics right etc, no frills display.

Another vote for Richie Blackmore. Fav player growing up. Kidwell to possibly be his assistant. Not interested in Morrison, we can do better in our own backyard. Kearney needs to pay the price for a dismal world cup final performance. And Stacey Jones...please.Perhaps in another 5 years.
 
But if Lockyer came out and said, I want to coach QLD, you would consider him aye...and he'd probably have quiet a bit of support although he has no coaching experience. Like I said, ofcourse there's no guarantee that he would be any good, but you would give him a crack at it.

Like I mentioned in the earlier post, I am not saying that we should be making Stacey jones the head coach of NZ. He obviously hasnt put his hat in the ring, so that obviously wont eventuate. My response was to comments stating how ridiculous it was for graham lowe to be suggesting that stacey jones should be given the opportunity. For me, its not that riduculous. If a Bennett/Bellamy/hasler or maybe even someone like steve folks etc wanted the job I wouldnt even consider Stacey BUT because of the the other options we are looking atm, if he did put his hand up I'd consider him

I understand what you're saying, but it's a little like me saying I'm buying a new car but can only afford a Suzuki Swift but if the car dealer said I could have a Lamborghini for the same money which would I pick. A lovely little dream but a dream none the less.
 
I know you just picking the best from that list, but is he really the best person to lead NZ? he's a hard-man, but can he coach? Or do we have to wait for 2-3 years of losing everything to australia before we realise, maybe he's jsut a hard-man afterall. I love the passion of David Kidwell in his playing days (still remember that shot he put up on Willie Mason), but at some point you have to put that aside and look at what else he brings to the table. Like Kearney he's only been an assitant at Melbourne. Does that approach work with the kiwis? Can he come up with something Kearney hasnt been able to with the kiwis and with eels. Too many unknowns to make him the head coach of NZ aye



if this aussie team turns over then the next one that will come up will be better than this one. Cant wait for them to go down by themselves aye. And I dont think the kiwis are that far behind either. We have the best hooker in the game (I think luke is just an influential as cam smith, although without a kicking game), The best second rower in the game (SBW, in the WC and this years azac test atlest), last years best winger in the comp, I'd reckon the best lock in the game (if you play mannering there), one of the best halves in the game in kieran foran, a pretty good forward pack, a halfback with some neat skills, we have guys like Tim Samona coming up who are absolute super stars...this team (excluding substandard players like elijah, goodwin) can beat australia.They just need to come up with the right game plan. And they need a genius of coach to do that. Mediocre coaches will come up with mediocre strategies like, playing elijah taylor, playing goodwin, not playing hoffman, not playing eastwood. Both Australia and NZ had problem at centres in WC last year, contrary to poupular choice (Michael Jennings) Tim Sheens came up with Jarryd Hayne and it worked like a charm. What did we do, we did nothing....that is what mediocity does, it leads to more mediocrity. Which is why this was our chance to come up somethign redically different, shake up NZ rugby league...put us on a path to winning back the WC the next time. But they've chosen the worst possible options that they could.

Scare australians to hit the ball up? are you serious? you want to scare Paul Gallen, James Tamou, Greg Bird, Nate Myles, Sam Thaiday, Luke Lewis, Glenn Stewart. These guys play origin football, smashing and getting smashed is what they are good at.You have to get into the arm wrestle with them for 80mins, make sure that scores are tied or we are in lead at the 70th min mark and see if you can get them nervous. The defence has to be water tight, the attack has to happen at speed, and for the first time we have players who are capable of doing that. Lesser qld teams of 80's and 90's have beaten NSW sides with superstars...even now, star studded QLD lineup gets beaten once every year by NSW sides who are lead by Mitchell Pierce (the most over rated half in the game) and co. So its not that we cant do it, we just havent had the right people supporting the team to do it..

Is it just a coincidence that we won the world cup when we had Wayne Bennet in the support staff?
We only won the world cup because of Bennett the four nations two years later we got haamered by oz at eden park played them again at suncorp a week later and won in last minute apparently bennett had come into camp and given them a rev up about the week before performance .
Kearneys coaching performance speaks for itself al la Paramatta if we need a aussie coach to beat them then get one just look at union
 
He has an uncanny ability to come up with the most ridiculous "expert opinions". Perhaps we need to remove one of the words from that phrase?

Stacey Jones - maybe in 8 years when he's proved himself...IE U20s success, NSW success and solid NRL/ESL record...

Is this a way of putting pressure on Stacey in his first year of serious coaching?
 
Glenn Morrison was a great player during his time.
Was a fan of him and Brad MacKay during the nineties era
Always played great rugby league against our Warriors`and because of that could fix the weaknesses our Kiwis have.
But we don't have to much on his resume as a coach, only that he has been coaching since 2011?
Interesting candidate though.
Being a Hopoate victim days are well BEHIND him.
Wish him all the best in his coaching career, might see him in a few years time?

Would not mind going for the Souths coach.
He knows how to utilise his big boppers?
 

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