General So Lillyman has re-signed..

PB_old

Guest
...did anyone over the Tasman hear me gasp in amazement when Mannering popped the ball through the line like yesteryear to nearly put someone in for a try?

I certainly did. He hit it up and looked like he was held in the tackle, but then exploded and threw off a tackler before popping the pass.

Colour me amazed.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Ruben Wiki was a centre who made his name as a centre. Brad Fittler played most of his early football at centre and made his name as a centre. Steve Price was a second rower who made his name as a second rower.

Lillyman's selection as backrower for Origin was a moment of absolute amazement. He was borderline average at the Cowboys there yet they picked him because they had heard he was a big raw boned unit who loved rodeos and shit.
 

PB_old

Guest
Ruben Wiki was a centre who made his name as a centre. Brad Fittler played most of his early football at centre and made his name as a centre. Steve Price was a second rower who made his name as a second rower.

Lillyman's selection as backrower for Origin was a moment of absolute amazement. He was borderline average at the Cowboys there yet they picked him because they had heard he was a big raw boned unit who loved rodeos and shit.

Yep.

You could make a massive list.
 

Spence_old

Guest
Also, remember it's not just about the 4 playing each game. This year we have gone through 8 props - Price, Rapira, Packer, Matulino, Lillyman, Latimore, Royal, Poching.

Next year (assuming we didn't resign Lillyman) we would have had - Rapira, Packer, Matulino, Latimore, Poching, Gavet, Ioane* and Neccrom Areai'iti* to make a solid 8 prop mini-squad.

So you think Latimore, Poching, Gavet, Ioane* and Neccrom Areai'iti* are all better than Lillyman? Remember this isn't about potential, as he is only on a one year contract.

*Just assuming they would be the next two in line, but feel free to substitute them for any other Vulcan/U20.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
I'm pretty sure i've said this about Royal but i'll also say it about Lil. I'd rather a young raw bone kid from Auckland ripping and tearing at opposition props and making mistakes while looking to put a hit on or dropping a ball while winding into a run that they were about to try and run over the oppotion pack twice.
The percentage props do nothing for me. Paticularly ones like Royal and Lil, though with Lil he at least can play an expansive game at second row which he has and which has seen him play for Queensland.
 

Spence_old

Guest
He's averaging more metres than all our other props (apart from Raps of course), so why not drop Packer or Latimore for someone like that? Packer and Latimore are both in a similar mold to Lillyman, a Price type prop if you will. Metremen, if you will.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Packer for Lil? Are you kidding? Latimore has far more potential at prop than Lil, even at his young age and with plenty of development left in him Latimore is the better option at prop.
What did Lil offer when he came into the side against the Sharks?
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
I'm pretty sure i've said this about Royal but i'll also say it about Lil. I'd rather a young raw bone kid from Auckland ripping and tearing at opposition props and making mistakes while looking to put a hit on or dropping a ball while winding into a run that they were about to try and run over the oppotion pack twice.
The percentage props do nothing for me. Paticularly ones like Royal and Lil, though with Lil he at least can play an expansive game at second row which he has and which has seen him play for Queensland.

Just to put things in perspective about Jacob's expansive game, these are his attacking stats

Offloads per game: 0.16
Line breaks per game: 0.11
Try Assists Per Game: 0.02
Line break assists per game: 0.02
Tries per game: 0.04

I've looked here at things good attacking expansive back rowers do. Bust the line, offload, ball play a little at times I suppose... Jacob really does none of those well. Infact, I daresay I'd be loathed to think of any player who has played Origin as a backrower who would have worse numbers. I dare say, I doubt there'd be many players who've played 30 first grade games in the backrow who would have worse numbers.

Not too much expanse there. Honestly he should have bought a lottery ticket every time his name was pulled out of the chook raffle to play for Queensland. Back-row poor... but in the front row in the middle where his lack of speed and footwork are not taken apart he has been especially good at rolling the ruck.

As far as the guys in the local comp, I fully agree... if they're there. I dare say they aren't. In the U20s Mark Ioane is a very good prop. Neecrom Areeaiti stood up on the weekend, but has been hit and miss in between. Charlie Gubb doesn't quite roll the ruck well enough and can get sloppy as an A defender. In the Vulcans, of course there's Gavet and Poching.

Of course, the presence of Jacob Lillyman as a potential prop should do nothing to prevent them from making first grade. I would dare say only Ioane, Gavet and Poching have a realistic shot of superceding him, but it is definitely doable.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Packer for Lil? Are you kidding? Latimore has far more potential at prop than Lil, even at his young age and with plenty of development left in him Latimore is the better option at prop.
What did Lil offer when he came into the side against the Sharks?

He was good against Cronulla IMO. He was deplorable in his first game back against Gold Coast where in actual fact he was playing backrow.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Just on Lillyman at Origin. He played 1 match off the bench. No offloads, no tackle busts, nothing. Just 16 tackles and 3 hit ups.

Of course, I'm not suggesting to rely purely on stats. But... I don't see the slightest bit of expanse from him from watching him throughout his career or the stats I look for in hindsight incase I'd missed something.
 

2big2strong_old

Guest
Just on Lillyman at Origin. He played 1 match off the bench. No offloads, no tackle busts, nothing. Just 16 tackles and 3 hit ups.

Of course, I'm not suggesting to rely purely on stats. But... I don't see the slightest bit of expanse from him from watching him throughout his career or the stats I look for in hindsight incase I'd missed something.

Do you mean 1 match ever? If so then you'd be incorrect, he's played 4 S.O.O games for QLD, all from the bench.

Apart from that, I agree with the general jist of your comments thus far.
 

DanKokoro_old

Guest
Do you mean 1 match ever? If so then you'd be incorrect, he's played 4 S.O.O games for QLD, all from the bench.

Apart from that, I agree with the general jist of your comments thus far.

Does anyone know what he was doing to warrant selection?
 

warriors4life_old

Guest
Lol, this story wasn't even newsworthy enough to make the Warriors website.
 

DanKokoro_old

Guest
I certainly did. He hit it up and looked like he was held in the tackle, but then exploded and threw off a tackler before popping the pass.

Colour me amazed.

I was equally amazed. Wasn't as amazed that Maloney was right there to take the pass because his support play is excellent. 9 tries so far this season, equal first among all other halves (with Benji and Carney).

On the pass.. We know Luck is never going to do that but it would be nice if it wasn't a once in a season ball by Simon.. If Simon can't rediscover some of his attacking ability in 2011 then that's just gay because both of them are always going to be selected and play 80 minutes. Meanwhile a gamebreaker like Ta'ai or Brown is gonna be left out.
 

Spence_old

Guest
Packer for Lil? Are you kidding? Latimore has far more potential at prop than Lil, even at his young age and with plenty of development left in him Latimore is the better option at prop.
What did Lil offer when he came into the side against the Sharks?

What does potential have to do with it? It's a one year contract. In regards to Lillyman over Packer, I think you misunderstood my point. You said you like some props with flair, as well as (I presume) some no frills props. Packer, Lillyman and Latimore are all (in my books) no frills, straight up the guts props, whether they are effective or not is irrelevant in this description. With these types of players the main way to gauge these players is by the shear amount of metres they make - as this is their main job in the team.

My point is if Lillyman is doing this better than Packer and Latimore, why would you play them over him? I understand you like your props with a bit of spunk, but Packer and Latimore are pretty no frills, like I said above, so that isn't a reason. Potential? That is irrelevant, as he is only on a one year contract, so we have to judge it on their ability for next year. Their defensive ability? I think Packer has that over Lillyman, but with our back row of Mannering/Luck, do we really need defensive minded props too?
 

Spence_old

Guest
I was equally amazed. Wasn't as amazed that Maloney was right there to take the pass because his support play is excellent. 9 tries so far this season, equal first among all other halves (with Benji and Carney).

On the pass.. We know Luck is never going to do that but it would be nice if it wasn't a once in a season ball by Simon.. If Simon can't rediscover some of his attacking ability in 2011 then that's just gay because both of them are always going to be selected and play 80 minutes. Meanwhile a gamebreaker like Ta'ai or Brown is gonna be left out.

Every game I say to myself that Mannering is going to have a blinder on attack, and every game he disappoints me. Hopefully that offload was a omen.
 

Spence_old

Guest
Btw, I'm not advocating that Lillyman play infront of Packer, just playing devils advocate. I just don't understand why he is so hated.
 

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