Sup42
The Sack coach cappy thread reads like a tennis match of a Warrior fan kind.
There are those who hit the ball in anger about the coach.....and those that return serve in anger about the players. Both parties are guilty of clinging to long held hoary old arguments.
This thread title is somewhat tongue in cheek inspired by NZWARRIORS forum vernacular and culture......it's either sack this and sack that....or thread titles read like a C.I. channel forensic show.....' residue every where' ........residual value this....and residual value that.
Lets be clear here.
There are two great tensions in Warrior land. There are the group of pitch fork wavers that want to lynch the coach, and there are the moderates who are sick of the same blame culture of coaches and defend the coaching position without necessarily being McFadden worshipers (they get labelled as such by bug eyed coach sackers who are too fired up to see nuances of language....apologist language....and careful considerate korero about seeking answers beyond the default mechanism of sack the Coach).
This is my thread so My challenge to you coach blamers is this:
The most popular anti coach argument is that the Warriors have had a string of crap coaches and they need a super coach.
'No super coach has agreed to come here
To my way of thinking, what is the use of banging on about getting a super coach if this is in reality a pipe dream. Mind you signing Isaac Luke and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck in one season is a pipe dream realised...as is the addition of Jim Doyle.....so Super coach dreamers are fully entitled to keep on dreaming.
I believe that a Super Coach would look at twenty years of NZ style failure in the NRL...through Aussie trained glasses....and replace the players.
A super coach is not going to have time to teach the NZ Product ABC in the first grade side. Their experience is from systems where only one letter or two of the Alphabet needs teaching, not the whole alphabet.
Remember your Super coach has never come to a system where they haven't been able to sell an Australian life style as part of the package....ergo they have never faced the challenge of a franchise that won't readily attract the majority of talent across the depth of the NRL because of the life style upheaval.
What's wrong with our players ?
Rugby league, or any competitive activity.....at it's very highest level.....requires mental and physical attributes.
The raw material has to be there in the first instance, to put it crudely....you can get away with the odd dumb Prop (smart Props are essential, Dumb Props can be made allowances for in your squad as long as they are in the minority).
Dumb backs in the modern game...when I say dumb I really mean un teachable.....have even less value in the modern game than Dumb forwards.
It's a Darwinian thing.
The game has evolved.
The Dumb big power running dinosaurs time is reaching it's end.
Our players are not dumb by in large...we just have more dummies than other teams.
To get the mental side right....players have to be bred in systems where they are mentally challenged in their formative experience (the ABC). This does not happen in NZ.
In NZ they breed good ball runners and big hitters...off loaders....and that is all. Modern Rugby league is highly technical....the average NZ skill set would only qualify you to sit on the bench of a thinking team....and be used as an impact player.
All other categories of rugby league are either incidental (by chance, per some unique footy experience of an individuals life experience of footy...say Dad was a great coach...or the local coach happened to be a special).
No coach can take on the entire Warrior problem:
Ivan Cleary was a good coach. However he failed.
If the coach Sacking mentality was followed in Ivan's day, he would not have got past year three....to reach the lofty heights of an inconsistent 2011...with a fluke Semi......that saw a final against a highly Mentally advanced team in the form of Manly in the GF.
Daniel Anderson on the other hand, was the only coach who allowed the NZ way of playing and converted it to a winning style.
I don't think people who call for Sacking our coaches appreciate how uniquely Anderson's (skills as a teacher of basics}....fitted with the Warriors deficits.
A Super coach is by no means guaranteed to have the break it down school teacher way of educating a Warrior.....remember those top coaches are used to working with more complete products,
Where we are at now under McFadden:
As Blake Ayshford admitted....it is very difficult to adjust to playing with the Warriors lead play maker and super star go to man.
Blake knows what he is talking about.
Keiran Foran knows what Blake is taking about.
Keiran is the consumate NZ brainy player. He struggled to play his game next to our go too guy,....and Blakes other comparison Marshall.
If it is hard for Blake now.....even with his previous experience....imagine how hard it was for the following failed combinations:
Shaun Johnson Malone
Shaun Johnson TL
Shaun Johnson Townsend
Shaun Johnson Robson.
Blake said you cannot predict what Shaun Johnson will do....all that does is lead to dropped balls....(sound relevant regarding our clunky years of backline play and turn overs ? )
" All you can do is go with the flow "
Well people......doesn't that sound like a metaphor for the last twenty years of Warriors not looking like other NRL teams ?
Does that not sound like all the cliches of Reggae footy and unpredictable wonder that is the Warriors ?
Does that not tell you....that unless you make wholesale player changes.....that the coaches word is going to fall on deaf ears...when senior players around our main talents....have no idea what they are going to do next ?
Is the coach to blame for that ?
Ten coaches have failed to find the answer to making our style work.
The obvious cheat would be to say bugger our style, lets import their style and use only a sprinkle of our unconventional locals.
The ratio of Warriors that the Kiwis use would just about do it.
There are those who hit the ball in anger about the coach.....and those that return serve in anger about the players. Both parties are guilty of clinging to long held hoary old arguments.
This thread title is somewhat tongue in cheek inspired by NZWARRIORS forum vernacular and culture......it's either sack this and sack that....or thread titles read like a C.I. channel forensic show.....' residue every where' ........residual value this....and residual value that.
Lets be clear here.
There are two great tensions in Warrior land. There are the group of pitch fork wavers that want to lynch the coach, and there are the moderates who are sick of the same blame culture of coaches and defend the coaching position without necessarily being McFadden worshipers (they get labelled as such by bug eyed coach sackers who are too fired up to see nuances of language....apologist language....and careful considerate korero about seeking answers beyond the default mechanism of sack the Coach).
This is my thread so My challenge to you coach blamers is this:
The most popular anti coach argument is that the Warriors have had a string of crap coaches and they need a super coach.
'No super coach has agreed to come here
To my way of thinking, what is the use of banging on about getting a super coach if this is in reality a pipe dream. Mind you signing Isaac Luke and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck in one season is a pipe dream realised...as is the addition of Jim Doyle.....so Super coach dreamers are fully entitled to keep on dreaming.
I believe that a Super Coach would look at twenty years of NZ style failure in the NRL...through Aussie trained glasses....and replace the players.
A super coach is not going to have time to teach the NZ Product ABC in the first grade side. Their experience is from systems where only one letter or two of the Alphabet needs teaching, not the whole alphabet.
Remember your Super coach has never come to a system where they haven't been able to sell an Australian life style as part of the package....ergo they have never faced the challenge of a franchise that won't readily attract the majority of talent across the depth of the NRL because of the life style upheaval.
What's wrong with our players ?
Rugby league, or any competitive activity.....at it's very highest level.....requires mental and physical attributes.
The raw material has to be there in the first instance, to put it crudely....you can get away with the odd dumb Prop (smart Props are essential, Dumb Props can be made allowances for in your squad as long as they are in the minority).
Dumb backs in the modern game...when I say dumb I really mean un teachable.....have even less value in the modern game than Dumb forwards.
It's a Darwinian thing.
The game has evolved.
The Dumb big power running dinosaurs time is reaching it's end.
Our players are not dumb by in large...we just have more dummies than other teams.
To get the mental side right....players have to be bred in systems where they are mentally challenged in their formative experience (the ABC). This does not happen in NZ.
In NZ they breed good ball runners and big hitters...off loaders....and that is all. Modern Rugby league is highly technical....the average NZ skill set would only qualify you to sit on the bench of a thinking team....and be used as an impact player.
All other categories of rugby league are either incidental (by chance, per some unique footy experience of an individuals life experience of footy...say Dad was a great coach...or the local coach happened to be a special).
No coach can take on the entire Warrior problem:
Ivan Cleary was a good coach. However he failed.
If the coach Sacking mentality was followed in Ivan's day, he would not have got past year three....to reach the lofty heights of an inconsistent 2011...with a fluke Semi......that saw a final against a highly Mentally advanced team in the form of Manly in the GF.
Daniel Anderson on the other hand, was the only coach who allowed the NZ way of playing and converted it to a winning style.
I don't think people who call for Sacking our coaches appreciate how uniquely Anderson's (skills as a teacher of basics}....fitted with the Warriors deficits.
A Super coach is by no means guaranteed to have the break it down school teacher way of educating a Warrior.....remember those top coaches are used to working with more complete products,
Where we are at now under McFadden:
As Blake Ayshford admitted....it is very difficult to adjust to playing with the Warriors lead play maker and super star go to man.
Blake knows what he is talking about.
Keiran Foran knows what Blake is taking about.
Keiran is the consumate NZ brainy player. He struggled to play his game next to our go too guy,....and Blakes other comparison Marshall.
If it is hard for Blake now.....even with his previous experience....imagine how hard it was for the following failed combinations:
Shaun Johnson Malone
Shaun Johnson TL
Shaun Johnson Townsend
Shaun Johnson Robson.
Blake said you cannot predict what Shaun Johnson will do....all that does is lead to dropped balls....(sound relevant regarding our clunky years of backline play and turn overs ? )
" All you can do is go with the flow "
Well people......doesn't that sound like a metaphor for the last twenty years of Warriors not looking like other NRL teams ?
Does that not sound like all the cliches of Reggae footy and unpredictable wonder that is the Warriors ?
Does that not tell you....that unless you make wholesale player changes.....that the coaches word is going to fall on deaf ears...when senior players around our main talents....have no idea what they are going to do next ?
Is the coach to blame for that ?
Ten coaches have failed to find the answer to making our style work.
The obvious cheat would be to say bugger our style, lets import their style and use only a sprinkle of our unconventional locals.
The ratio of Warriors that the Kiwis use would just about do it.
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