General Ryan Hoffman Captaincy Thread

[Jordan G]

Well, didn't see this coming. If Hoffman is the best man for the job this year (even if it's just this year) then all aboard the Hoff train.

I hope this was all run passed TL for approval beforehand.

 

[Jay M]

That *whoosh* you can hear is the sound of Mannering's mass exodus from Supercoach teams across the nation(s).

why?

He's still going to be a keeper for supercoach...

 

[Play The Ball]

The different background Hoffman has to the majority of the squad can fast become an issue when he starts throwing his weight around (as a captain should). It didn't work out too well for Price when he did it.

For those of us new to the forum or not in the know what was the deal with the Steve Price – team dynamics[/QUOTE]
His teammates did not support him as captain. When he was replaced as captain it came on the back of an overwhelming team review in which the players demanded change. Steve was a very different person to many of his teammates and rightly or wrongly that became an issue when he was throwing his weight around as captain. Personally I think there was probably some fault on both sides. Steve had earned his standing in the game. He was a student of the game to a degree and commanded respect from the administrators and media. He got preferential treatment that his teammates didn't. Some of it was jealousy probably and some was justified criticism. Mannering united the club - there is no more respected figure in the Warriors history than Mannering. And i include Stacey Jones, Ruben Wiki etc when I say that.

 

[Old Sid]

Well done and thank you Simon, for the challenging years you have given your all, the mark of a true leader. And now, when you could have perhaps taken the easier route and rode to possible glory as the captain at the time, you decide for the better of the club that the team will benefit from a different leader. Quite a decision to make and you certainly have my respect.
For similar reasons to those shared in posts above, I think Hoff is the right choice for now too. This decision will not have been taken lightly by Jim and Co and we can assume that apporpiate communication with contenders has taken place, including getting their buy-in.

Not a whisper leaked out... and a speedy appointment.

Another example that the Club is getting it's act together right across the board.

 

[eudebrito]

Trying to get some stuff out of the interview on the website, Mannering cracks a smile at hoffy ‘eating up all the extra stuff’ that comes with being captain, so whether that’s yelling at your teammates, or just doing the press conferences, Simon doesn’t seem to want a bar of it. So maybe it will help the team in some small way.

 

[Marshthedarsh]

Fleming turned into probably our greatest ever captain.

I get what you're saying, and I'm sure this will happen with Kane - but until McCullum took over we were ranked 7th or 8th across all formats. Granted Fleming didn't have the greatest players at his disposal, but McCullum became a better player with the responsibility. Yes McCullum's tactics involve a lot of gut instinct and frankly - luck, but I think results are the most important thing and he got them more often than any other.



If I'm honest Mannering doesn't really offer anything as captain. All we see is him out of breath, hands on knees, trying to argue with the referee and not getting anything across. Shaun is always the one screaming in the in goal at the players after conceding. What we saw with the mic on Sterlo show how much of a leader he is on the field. Definitely captain in waiting, but you have to trust the coach with his choice. Very happy with Hoffman. Mannering's best asset is his gameplay, hopefully without the pressure he lifts. This is the year we are under the most pressure to perform (wait, don't we say that every year?). And I think Hoffman is the best to handle it.

Captaincy works different for all, and can only be assessed in hindsight. Absolutely happy with Hoffman. Looking forward to what the Australian pundits think.

Just found this - https://www.facebook.com/Ryan-Hoffman-for-Warriors-Captain-2016-805187812933725/

 

[Kalcod]

anything dodgy in this with Watson taking a greater role in the club? 2 weeks before season starts seems to be a very funny time to make such a big change.

 

[Marshthedarsh]

It should never have been taken of Pricey, never! But Simon did his best and will be one of the Warriors greats

Agree. but remember Price never played for us again because of his injury. Bit of serendipity, if that's how you view Mannering's era.

 

[Hitman82]

Might have to explain that one, certainly Hoffman gets a lot more support around him (from the boss, through a more experienced / diverse squad this year) than what Simon has had recently.

I guess it's not directly applicable to on-field calls and such, but the Bore Blacks are using something similar, as is my company.

The idea of a submarine commander being an autocratic leader who must make all decisions, despite not being the technical expert for any one area.

And the decision to delegate decision authority / empower the whole crew to be a crew of 100 leaders rather than 99 followers and 1 over-burdened autocratic leader.

Basically acknowledging the team's individual strengths and empowering them to be leaders in their own right, making a better performing unit across the board.

I didn't explain it well but I hope you get what I mean

 

[Play The Ball]

I get what you're saying, and I'm sure this will happen with Kane - but until McCullum took over we were ranked 7th or 8th across all formats. Granted Fleming didn't have the greatest players at his disposal, but McCullum became a better player with the responsibility. Yes McCullum's tactics involve a lot of gut instinct and frankly - luck, but I think results are the most important thing and he got them more often than any other.



If I'm honest Mannering doesn't really offer anything as captain. All we see is him out of breath, hands on knees, trying to argue with the referee and not getting anything across. Shaun is always the one screaming in the in goal at the players after conceding. What we saw with the mic on Sterlo show how much of a leader he is on the field. Definitely captain in waiting, but you have to trust the coach with his choice. Very happy with Hoffman. Mannering's best asset is his gameplay, hopefully without the pressure he lifts. This is the year we are under the most pressure to perform (wait, don't we say that every year?). And I think Hoffman is the best to handle it.

Captaincy works different for all, and can only be assessed in hindsight. Absolutely happy with Hoffman. Looking forward to what the Australian pundits think.

Just found this - https://www.facebook.com/Ryan-Hoffman-for-Warriors-Captain-2016-805187812933725/

Fleming's team was ranked extremely highly and with less world class players than Baz has had. Fleming finished in 2007 and they went backwards until Baz took over. Fleming led NZ to our only international trophy among other achievements.
Before that piece with Sterlo - people criticised Shaun's game control - after that everyone realised he did a lot more than he was given credit for. Pity we never micced up Simon to hear how he operated.
Being captain is so much more than yelling at the players or a referee on the field. I was glad to hear the club at pains to point out they not only wanted Mannering to stay on as captain but asked him to reconsider his decision.
Mannering has been this club's best ever captain in my opinion.

 

[snake77]

A bit of unexpected news. He's been a polarising captain ever since he first took on the job and throughout his tenure with people calling for a replacement every season since he took on the job. There has been a lot of media articles and forum debate about his style and if he is the right man for the job. He's been our captain through the end of the Cleary era through the lull we are currently in. We have recruited well this year and our front office seems to be in order so expectations are high for us to turn things around. It would have been good to see him as captains as things improved.

But it is probably a good time for a change. He's coming off a good season and if he feels it was a burden to his form or he didn't want the added responsibility fair enough. He has served us long enough to make that call. Hopefully we see a guy with the weight/expectation of the captaincy off him and he can finish his career in great form.

This does raise a few questions.

Is it just the week to week captaincy that he feels is a burden and does he still want to lead the Kiwis?

Hoffman even if he is unhappy. If he leaves early or sees out his contract will only be a short term situation. So do we thrust the next options in as vice captains?

A lot of people will be happy with Hoffman as he is the type to lay down the law behind the posts. Hopefully Luke and Robson as experienced players contribute to that as well.

For the players hopefully everyone is fully behind Hoffman and the club can move forward. The players probably need to lift as I'd guess if the last few years had gone well the captaincy wouldn't have been such a burden for Mannering as everything that goes along with the job is a lot easier when you are winning.

 

[ToiletDuck]

I don't see how another year is going to make SJ "ready". I just don't buy into that kinda line. Whoever is the best candidate should get it. I hope the Warriors feel Hoffman is the best candidate rather than thinking too much about it all.
Fleming turned into probably our greatest ever captain. Mannering (in my opinion at least) was thrust into the role early as well and became the club's best captain. You're ready when you are the best option. If Hoffman is the best candidate then fair play - I will disagree with them but will at least accept their reasoning. But if he has been given the job because SJ isn't quite 'ready' then it could seriously backfire.
The different background Hoffman has to the majority of the squad can fast become an issue when he starts throwing his weight around (as a captain should). It didn't work out too well for Price when he did it.

If Shaun Johnson was earmarked as a future captain as a 20 year old then why not chuck him in then? At what point do you say a time frame is irrelevant in terms of development for a role? I would say an extra year or two for a half that is still learning his trade at Shaun Johnson's age is vital to his development as a player, without landing him with all the extra shit that comes with being a captain. Some players relish the extra responsiblity, some players prefer to be in a leadership role without taking on all those little extras expected of a club leader.

Shaun Johnson may well be ready to lead a side if he is required, but it doesn't necessarily make him the best man for the job at this point in time. If you have a more senior player who also feels ready to lead the side, who wants the job and feels he can really make a difference - then why stand in his way because there is another, younger heir apparent? Shaun Johnson may turn around in a couple of years, hopefully as a more well rounded player with some finals success under his belt and say 'you know what, I've played under a couple of different captains now (as opposed to just one), I've learnt some do's and dont's, I feel more comfortable with my role in this side both on and off the field, I'm not coming off a long injury lay off and now I feel I am ready to properly captain this club.' That's obviously an ideal scenario, but I'm not of the opinion that a year or two isn't worth anything in preparing someone for a job like captain.

Also, if the players don't like his style, because presumably it's a tad more unforgiving/harsh than what they're used to, then lord help us. Changing captains will simply be re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic, if this culture (or lack thereof) persists.

 

[bruce]

The word from Cleary after he moved to Penrith was something to the effect that Mannering WAS the team, so I have no doubt it was his decision to hand the job in. He did seem to be weighed down last year and there must have been some tempting offers to go to Sydney, any club would have him.

I am pleased we still have him and maybe now Hoffman has the job it must motivate him to use all his ability to get the team where it needs to be. To be honest I think it is a win win. As for comparisons with Steve Price he was an unpopular captain, although his professional performance was without peer. I hope Hoffman is different to him.

 

[snake77]

Hoffman will miss about 6 games easy.
Whose captain then ???

Mannering and normal service resumes.

Jokes aside. Hopefully we look at things fresh. We had McClennan, Elliott and McFadden continue through with the same captain and that was probably the right call. We are going through a few changes so it is probably a good time to let Mannering concentrate on his football and we add some new faces to the leadership on the field. Luke and Johnson already will be leading us around the field. I'd like to see them step up if Hoffman is out as both would be long term option when Hoffman retires.

Luke would be a similar situation to Foran at the Eels. New to the club and not hindered by the issues of the previous years.

 

[Blain]

He'll be a good fill in for a season or 2, until Luke/Shaun Johnson are ready to take over (probably Co Captains).

 

[matiunz]

Did not see this coming at all,

Love Mannering the player but never quite warmed to him as captain, if this helps him be happier in his workplace then good on him and the brave choice to step down.

Hoffman has a bit more of a "Price" captaincy feel about him and I think we will see that more vocal captain many of us have been asking for. Also think he will be more vocal with refs-will being a NSW rep help him there?

One concern is around the rumours he wanted out, if true do we want a captain that may not be 100% into the team? But then again there may also be nothing to the rumours.

Wonder how the team feels about this I hope like hell it hasn't caused any internal dramas we need a good year!

All in all I think it's a positive, kinda carrying on the fresh start feel and hopefully leaving baggage behind

 

[mode81]

Been an advocate of Mannering relinquishing the captaincy for a while. The swiftness of it all is refreshing.

Simon's a vital cog that doesn't need the 'c' beside his name to prove his value. Lost count how many times he's won NZW player of the year.

No complaints whatsoever. Simon gives his reasons why, transparency and honesty, what more can you ask?

Pretty gutsy move by all involved but I like it and I'm excited for Hoffman. Putting all the controversy and rumors about the Hoff aside I back him to do a good job.

Hoffman definitely a transitional captain until Shaun Johnson is ready. Shaun Johnson is the true face of the new era Warriors.

 

[Play The Ball]

If Shaun Johnson was earmarked as a future captain as a 20 year old then why not chuck him in then? At what point do you say a time frame is irrelevant in terms of development for a role? I would say an extra year or two for a half that is still learning his trade at Shaun Johnson's age is vital to his development as a player, without landing him with all the extra shit that comes with being a captain. Some players relish the extra responsiblity, some players prefer to be in a leadership role without taking on all those little extras expected of a club leader.

Shaun Johnson may well be ready to lead a side if he is required, but it doesn't necessarily make him the best man for the job at this point in time. If you have a more senior player who also feels ready to lead the side, who wants the job and feels he can really make a difference - then why stand in his way because there is another, younger heir apparent? Shaun Johnson may turn around in a couple of years, hopefully as a more well rounded player with some finals success under his belt and say 'you know what, I've played under a couple of different captains now (as opposed to just one), I've learnt some do's and dont's, I feel more comfortable with my role in this side both on and off the field, I'm not coming off a long injury lay off and now I feel I am ready to properly captain this club.' That's obviously an ideal scenario, but I'm not of the opinion that a year or two isn't worth anything in preparing someone for a job like captain.

Also, if the players don't like his style, because presumably it's a tad more unforgiving/harsh than what they're used to, then lord help us. Changing captains will simply be re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic, if this culture (or lack thereof) persists.

I think we are basically saying the same thing - Johnson is the long term captain. Where we differ is when he is "ready". If he was the best candidate at age 20 then he should be captain immediately in my opinion. If he's the best candidate now, he should be the captain. I see no point waiting for him to develop before making him captain if he's already the best candidate. Until now Mannering has been a better candidate in my book so it has been a mute point. However - i think Shaun Johnson is now the best candidate who isn't named Simon. To me, that is enough to appoint him. He may be a better captain 12 months or 24 months from now but the moment he becomes the best candidate, he is ready is what I'm saying.
As for your last point..
I personally don't mind being yelled at. I would rather a coach give it to me bluntly than sugar coat things but not everyone is like that. History tells us the Warriors have not been a roster that has enjoyed that style of leadership - think Daniel Anderson, Steve Price etc. The roster is what it is - they need a captain that will bring the best out of them and if the players don't like being yelled at they need to find a leader that understands that. The other alternative was to clean out the players and bring in players that don't mind that style. Maybe that has been the case since Pricey left but i doubt it somehow.

 

[stacky18]

Real good call from Mannering. Probably best for him to spend more time with family and focus on being a good player.
He was a good captain, but not the captain that this team needs. He was a bedrock of consistency in a club that has tripped and fumbled its way through many coaching changes.
Its clear that our young blokes need a vocal captain who has high expectations.
Hoffman, like Cappy will hold blokes accountable.
I hope Hoffman's direct approach will help our communication on D, because until we learn to hold the line straight and put guys on their back we won't win enough to make the finals.

 

[Diesel]

Can't say I'm shocked that Mannering has stood down, he never looked comfortable in the role even if he had respect from players.

Hoffman was doing a lot of talking behind the sticks, so this could be a defining moment in our season IMO