Internationals Rugby League World Cup

Watching Hayne pair up with Inglis in the centers is a worry
That has made them favorites by some space in my estimation it has strengthened their team out of site.
Be alright if we had of bedded Williams into Center or Mannering , one really good defensive player to match up on them , having said that Williams has missed a few tackles getting fended off for going high in the tournament.

Inglis will un doubtebly go to fullback so that breaks up their pairing , Slater isn't as good as Inglis so they don't lose much there.

NO point in talking about playing Aussie when a very good English team have their own expectations of being in that position.

Whare and Sheck will have their work cut out with Tomkins Cudjoe and Ryan hall especially our Sam and Hall racking up phenomenal stats between them this world cup , Cudjoe averages a line break each time he plays.

The Kiwis need to take advantage of Englands horrible error rate by playing tidy footy , our own completions are pretty poor.
 
Sup you are no doubt one of the most clued up people on this forum, but surely even you must admit that our chances of winning (with this team) have never been so good.

Slater isn't as good as Inglis so they don't lose much there. [/quote

Absolutely.

English team have their own expectations of being in that position.

Hard luck England. The trouble with the Kiwi's is what plan to play - and short of an epic injury toll the Kiwis will surely win this weekend

he Kiwis need to take advantage of Englands horrible error rate by playing tidy footy , our own completions are pretty poor.

I think every team at this stage is suffering a bit from fatigue. Though the completion rate seemed poor last weekend, the Kiwis ran in a few tries.

I agree with Brother Faisal's earlier post and, with much relief can say imho FINALLY we have a complete team :):):) to be sure of, to be confident in and get excited about.

I don't care what Thurston and Inglis and Cronk are doing. I'm reading about SBW, watching Foran play like a machine, watching Luke carving it up, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck with the goose step, the best prop rotation on the planet, and Frank Paul just trying to slap some sense into people! This tournament is all about the Kiwis and everybody knows it. Its been a long time coming but I truly hope that the win in 2008 was the start of a winning era for the Kiwis and I intend to relax and just enjoy it, finally :)
 
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Sup you are no doubt one of the most clued up people on this forum, but surely even you must admit that our chances of winning (with this team) have never been so good.
Yeah I'm floating in my devils advocate waka out here against a raging tide of Kiwi Awesomeness.

No doubt this is THE team, as far as Kiwi League goes it's a bit of a dream team.

Taking the Devils advocate cap off and daring to dream here's what I see on the positive Ledger for the Kiwis ( all of it's been posted before so I'll try find some other angles on what other Couch coaches have said ).

1. Kiwi league teams are confidence based. Having a World cup in your CV to defend thanks to the 08 team is a psychological position the Kiwis have never had the luxury of enjoying.
Brian Noble made the Comment " They look confident.....they are oozing confidence with their play "
He's right they are on top of their games.....and as we all know this Kiwi team includes more in form club players than any in recent memory.

2. Coaching staff. Stephen Kearney might not be the best coach in the world , but I take my hat off to him for bringing in two people that work well together in Cleary and Iro , forget the Warriors politics , Kearney needed to choose people who would support him and not have to make up a lot of ground getting to know the players strengths and weakness's.

Against Scotland the Kiwis are pressured in the first Quarter as the Scots put in a brave effort, there is a poignant moment when the kiwis gain a likely unassailable lead through their Secound Try ( Bromwich crashes over under the posts........Cleary is on the radio doing the talking ( remember he is the attacking coach ).
Cleary is barking instructions then pauses , he turns to head coach Kearney and asks ( from what happens next you can only imagine he is checking whether they go with the scheduled changes with the bench players.......Kearney stops to think over the Question and then nods and instructs Cleary.....

The interaction going on there is great for us , unlike shots of some of the other coaching teams , there is clearly great communication going on between the Kiwi coaches and a respectful partnership , our commanding officers are on the same page , unlike England and Aussie the chain of command allows for some real talk ( Looking ant Sheens and McNamara sitting over and above their management staff reflects the individualism their players have showed so far ).
Game plan :
Defence


The only recommendation I would have is the defence. Since they announced they are using the Rooster premiership winning system I would have liked them to have invited one of the Roosters coaching staff into their camp.
Given they are using a Roosters system it follows that Roosters players get the nod over their team mates ( Moa over Kasiano FPN over Glen and Eastwood )

The most interesting thing Cleary has done is to play specialist centers , even his Panthers use Lewis Brown in the center to this day.

Where it makes sense on attack is that we see in Cleary's Style, Sonny Bill Williams plays wide on the right side to create space for Whare ( Panther ) and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck. Cleary used this time and again at the Warriors with Mannering and Brown.

Now he has Williams to test his Secound row running wide pet play.....as Cleary said when he was interviewed after being announced as assistant coach " New Zealand have exciting players , It's a dream Job working with that Roster "
in the first half of games when Cleary has his top Kiwi line up and he runs that play NZ look unbeatable.
Threats to that would seem to be interchange and injury problems that have interrupted Cleary's attack plan with his best assets.

The Biggest threat to NZ is clearly Tomkins. But fortunately for us England aren't using him as frequently as they should , and unlike our best attack freak Williams they have had eighty minutes in every game they have played to get that right and have failed.

If it were me i would play Williams for eighty minutes and as with the PNG Game use him shamelessly , other people can do Williams work in the middle.....are we short on go forward ? are we short on big people ?

Tomkins will run their three quarter line at Whare and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck.

This is where Cleary's attacking preference has forced him to take a gamble in defence. Both our right side outside backs are lefties playing on the right.....it hasn't harmed their attacking impact but it has given Tomkins an inexperienced NZ right edge to work over.

If we are to Win Shaun Johnson must aim up in D and give those two young outsiders a chance to focus on the runners in front of them and not worry about a Johnson miss / jersey grab ineffective tackle on the inside.

At 7.48 minutes of the Scotland Game Manu punches into the D as is a Clearly pet play ( CLeary has used Manu in his Cleary Mold....Aerial and Kick return battering ram ) Isaac Luke the player of the tournament then goes where any player in the NRL would dream of running......in the wake of the Manu hit up.......the support left of Locke Williams Goodwin and a sprinting Foran , in contrast to a wave on the right side support take your pick....the Entire Kiwi team are sprinting up ( move which would destroy any team on the planet ) is how we will win the world cup.

That play unleashed twice in each half would bag you four tries I guarantee it.......then add the two tries that a Williams overlap on the right creates.....over two halves that is unbeatable.

They remind me of the 2002 Warriors when they pushed up in support of the Monster Forward pack.

Frank Pritchard has been our best attacking forward in the last five years , England and Australia have the unenviable task of marking up on two Steven Menzies.

Good Luck with that

End Rant.

My next post will revert to the devils advocate stuff otherwise it's all cheer leading Jonah Lomu All blacks Versus South Africa World cup final stuff. :p
 
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I would have to agreee with champion on his analysis of Hoffman at wing. I think if Manu is in doubt i would put hoffman in his place.
id have nightengale. he has been played in the 2 jersey when he plays 5 for the club. with manu out he would be on his normal side of the field. pop hoffman on the bench to cover centre,fb and wing
 
id have nightengale. he has been played in the 2 jersey when he plays 5 for the club. with manu out he would be on his normal side of the field. pop hoffman on the bench to cover centre,fb and wing
Only time i have seen Nightiezs play left side is for the Kiwis, always right hand side and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck has only played right and FB at the Woosters,that left foot step is amazing. Hoffman the logical replacement IMO, I would be too worried having Inu there, I'm glad Cleary is there lol..
 
Yeah I'm floating in my devils advocate waka out here against a raging tide of Kiwi Awesomeness.

No doubt this is THE team, as far as Kiwi League goes it's a bit of a dream team.

Taking the Devils advocate cap off and daring to dream here's what I see on the positive Ledger for the Kiwis ( all of it's been posted before so I'll try find some other angles on what other Couch coaches have said ).

1. Kiwi league teams are confidence based. Having a World cup in your CV to defend thanks to the 08 team is a psychological position the Kiwis have never had the luxury of enjoying.
Brian Noble made the Comment " They look confident.....they are oozing confidence with their play "
He's right they are on top of their games.....and as we all know this Kiwi team includes more in form club players than any in recent memory.

2. Coaching staff. Stephen Kearney might not be the best coach in the world , but I take my hat off to him for bringing in two people that work well together in Cleary and Iro , forget the Warriors politics , Kearney needed to choose people who would support him and not have to make up a lot of ground getting to know the players strengths and weakness's.

Against Scotland the Kiwis are pressured in the first Quarter as the Scots put in a brave effort, there is a poignant moment when the kiwis gain a likely unassailable lead through their Secound Try ( Bromwich crashes over under the posts........Cleary is on the radio doing the talking ( remember he is the attacking coach ).
Cleary is barking instructions then pauses , he turns to head coach Kearney and asks ( from what happens next you can only imagine he is checking whether they go with the scheduled changes with the bench players.......Kearney stops to think over the Question and then nods and instructs Cleary.....

The interaction going on there is great for us , unlike shots of some of the other coaching teams , there is clearly great communication going on between the Kiwi coaches and a respectful partnership , our commanding officers are on the same page , unlike England and Aussie the chain of command allows for some real talk ( Looking ant Sheens and McNamara sitting over and above their management staff reflects the individualism their players have showed so far ).
Game plan :
Defence


The only recommendation I would have is the defence. Since they announced they are using the Rooster premiership winning system I would have liked them to have invited one of the Roosters coaching staff into their camp.
Given they are using a Roosters system it follows that Roosters players get the nod over their team mates ( Moa over Kasiano FPN over Glen and Eastwood )

The most interesting thing Cleary has done is to play specialist centers , even his Panthers use Lewis Brown in the center to this day.

Where it makes sense on attack is that we see in Cleary's Style, Sonny Bill Williams plays wide on the right side to create space for Whare ( Panther ) and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck. Cleary used this time and again at the Warriors with Mannering and Brown.

Now he has Williams to test his Secound row running wide pet play.....as Cleary said when he was interviewed after being announced as assistant coach " New Zealand have exciting players , It's a dream Job working with that Roster "
in the first half of games when Cleary has his top Kiwi line up and he runs that play NZ look unbeatable.
Threats to that would seem to be interchange and injury problems that have interrupted Cleary's attack plan with his best assets.

The Biggest threat to NZ is clearly Tomkins. But fortunately for us England aren't using him as frequently as they should , and unlike our best attack freak Williams they have had eighty minutes in every game they have played to get that right and have failed.

If it were me i would play Williams for eighty minutes and as with the PNG Game use him shamelessly , other people can do Williams work in the middle.....are we short on go forward ? are we short on big people ?

Tomkins will run their three quarter line at Whare and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck.

This is where Cleary's attacking preference has forced him to take a gamble in defence. Both our right side outside backs are lefties playing on the right.....it hasn't harmed their attacking impact but it has given Tomkins an inexperienced NZ right edge to work over.

If we are to Win Shaun Johnson must aim up in D and give those two young outsiders a chance to focus on the runners in front of them and not worry about a Johnson miss / jersey grab ineffective tackle on the inside.

At 7.48 minutes of the Scotland Game Manu punches into the D as is a Clearly pet play ( CLeary has used Manu in his Cleary Mold....Aerial and Kick return battering ram ) Isaac Luke the player of the tournament then goes where any player in the NRL would dream of running......in the wake of the Manu hit up.......the support left of Locke Williams Goodwin and a sprinting Foran , in contrast to a wave on the right side support take your pick....the Entire Kiwi team are sprinting up ( move which would destroy any team on the planet ) is how we will win the world cup.

That play unleashed twice in each half would bag you four tries I guarantee it.......then add the two tries that a Williams overlap on the right creates.....over two halves that is unbeatable.

They remind me of the 2002 Warriors when they pushed up in support of the Monster Forward pack.

Frank Pritchard has been our best attacking forward in the last five years , England and Australia have the unenviable task of marking up on two Steven Menzies.

Good Luck with that

End Rant.

My next post will revert to the devils advocate stuff otherwise it's all cheer leaAll blacks Versus South Africa World cup final stuff. :p


I dont think the Kiwis will be complacent in their approach to the game this weekend or any weekend and I am not suggesting they should be. I'm suggesting maybe after previous seasons of NRL and international disappointments we may have something to look forward to.
 
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On what sup is talking about, i agree, Cleary could well be the unsung hero by the end of this, Ive never heard you make more sense as you did with having IRO & CLEARY combo, that has benefitted Kearney as youve already stated, never really thought about that but thats a great insight.

As i mentioned before this is one of the greatest Kiwis teams ever, if we only had Matai and SKD i would definitely give it greatest of all time.

I feel its new territory for the Kiwis team and franchise, we went through the Benji Marshall era from 2009 to 2012 with erratic results and pretty poor performances, I suppose the 2008 world cup win was kinda like the usa team or italian team, a good look for the moment but in reality the substance for sustainability wasnt there, As a result results from then on having been embarrassing at times. But i must credit Kearney, he has over these 5 years slowly but surely established his structure and culture and with the faith he has given the veterans, and trial and error is on the cusp of a potential back to back World Cups, he has made some tough decisions and continues too, Taking the captaincy away from benji, relieving benji, getting rid of adam blair and hangers on players, the whole SBW shambles, il give it to him for doing this job, im sure its a tough job but it must be hard to go through all the constant aussie losses and that to contiune to want to be this coach is awesome.

I think the words of JT best some up this new era of kiwis football " its time to step on there fuXXXXXing throats!!!!!"
We need to develop there mentality, Take no prisoners, dont let anyone into the game, raise the standard of Kiwi footy to the highest expectation possible.
If this is the best Kiwi team ever than i expect them to thrash England, to step on their throats and show them whos boss,
Like sup said exploit sonnys skills to the nth degree, smash their forwards, do not play to their level and never let off the throttle.

To the english they believe we dont win in england, EVER so they think we will collapse somehow because we always have. This needs to change and i believe this Kiwis team isnt using that attitude or mentality to hold them back, THEY KNOW THEY ARE BETTER! and they need to respect them but put them in their place,
This is our statement game, We need to say "We are the world champions and were not letting you take it away from us".

For me this game will reveal the real identity of this Kiwis team, to play England in a semi final in England in front of 70,000 English Fans with the refs against us, we will be tested, either way if we win or lose that will not matter, it will be how they win or lose that decides if we our on the verge of a new dominant era or if were due for a new change in direction.
 
In regards to our centres, i think a highlight of this tour has been our wingmen. I would say Whare of all the centres has done well because he has been able to get most times the winger to come off Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and then distibute allowing Roger Tuivasa-Sheck the one on one, i think the key for our centres in red zone plays is to be able to give our wingers good one on one ball and let them finish, just keep the line honest and also distribute well close to the line, I would like to see that more from Goodwin too, unfortunately i think hall and charnley will stick with their man and trust their centres to cover ours, fortunately we have SBW and FPritch to suck that man in off our centres hence why i think the centres is just the middle man on plays and the key for him is the quick pass to the wing as the defence collapses in. If SBW and Frank draw that extra man which they will then their will either be a big hole for our centres ( on a occassion Whare has dummied to Roger Tuivasa-Sheck because the whole was wide enough caused by sonny) or a quick draw and pass (e.g) Whare scoop passs under the legs to Roger Tuivasa-Sheck ( not a great example but thats the idea). Our wingers are the best finishers in the comp.

As for our defence in the centres, umm do that tomorrow lol
 
I dont think the Kiwis will be complacent in their approach to the game this weekend or any weekend and I am not suggesting they should be. I'm suggesting maybe after previous seasons of NRL and international disappointments we may have something to look forward to.
You're right of course.

It's been a great ride already worth the price of the sky subs
 
Tue 19 November

Match officials appointed for The Big Hit

Following yesterday’s meeting of the Match Officials Appointments Panel, Ben Cummins and Richard Silverwood have been appointed to referee the RLWC2013 semi-finals at Saturday's Big Hit.

The Match Officials Appointments Panel have also taken the decision to add another level of scrutiny to the video referee decisions by appointing a second video referee to each semi-final and The Rugby League World Cup Final.

Stuart Cummings of the RLWC2013 Match Officials Appointments Panel said “The second video referee will observe the decision-making process of the video referee and offer additional information where it is deemed necessary.

“The Match Officials Appointments Panel feel that this is an appropriate step at this stage of the tournament.”

The appointments for the RLWC2013 semi-finals are:

New Zealand v England
Referee: Ben Cummins
Touch Judges: James Child, Grant Atkins
Reserve Referee: Shayne Hayne
Video Referee: Ashley Klein
2nd Video Referee: Henry Perenara

Australia v Fiji
Referee: Richard Silverwood
Touch Judges: Robert Hicks, Tim Roby
Reserve Referee: Phil Bentham
Video Referee: Ben Thaler
2nd Video Referee: Henry Perenara
 
In regards to our centres, i think a highlight of this tour has been our wingmen. I would say Whare of all the centres has done well because he has been able to get most times the winger to come off Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and then distibute allowing Roger Tuivasa-Sheck the one on one, i think the key for our centres in red zone plays is to be able to give our wingers good one on one ball and let them finish, just keep the line honest and also distribute well close to the line, I would like to see that more from Goodwin too, unfortunately i think hall and charnley will stick with their man and trust their centres to cover ours, fortunately we have SBW and FPritch to suck that man in off our centres hence why i think the centres is just the middle man on plays and the key for him is the quick pass to the wing as the defence collapses in. If SBW and Frank draw that extra man which they will then their will either be a big hole for our centres ( on a occassion Whare has dummied to Roger Tuivasa-Sheck because the whole was wide enough caused by sonny) or a quick draw and pass (e.g) Whare scoop passs under the legs to Roger Tuivasa-Sheck ( not a great example but thats the idea). Our wingers are the best finishers in the comp.

As for our defence in the centres, umm do that tomorrow lol

That's where having Locke at fullback could also help (as someone else mentioned Hoffman could go to left wing if Manu is out, and Hoffman is good defensively too)... Locke chimes in on attack very nicely on the right hand side, works well with Johnson, and could really help open that side up on attack.
 
That's where having Locke at fullback could also help (as someone else mentioned Hoffman could go to left wing if Manu is out, and Hoffman is good defensively too)... Locke chimes in on attack very nicely on the right hand side, works well with Johnson, and could really help open that side up on attack.
This sounds perfect to me. Bang on the money with Locke coming in. Sometimes it can actually be too much I've seen Locke come in and be one past too much but if they get it right it's gonna be real good.

Word is cleary has stated that nightingale will take manus spot if injured. So there goes the Hoffman to the wing.
 
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1. Locke
2. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck
3. Whare
4. Goodwin
5. Manu / Nightingale
6. Foran
7. Magic
8. JWH
9. Luke
10. Matulino
11. Frank the Tank
12. SBW
13. Mannering
14. Bromwich
15. Kasiano
16. Eastwood
17. Taylor

Agree with Locke at 1...but Hoffman is too good to be left outside the team altogether aye. I was initially thinking left wing for hoffman, but Cleary's confirmed nightingale will go there if Manu is out. Wonder if he's in plans for left centre

Also, about Bromich...thinking if he would be better served to start the game. Absorb the initial attack from Burgess brothers, and then let JWH come in and do his thing...
 
This sounds perfect to me. Bang on the money with Locke coming in. Sometimes it can actually be too much I've seen Locke come in and be one past too much but if they get it right it's gonna be real good.

Word is cleary has stated that nightingale will take manus spot if injured. So there goes the Hoffman to the wing.

I'm ok with Nightingale playing. He doesn't bring the same things as Manu (or Hoffman) to the wing... but he brings you attitude and grit, which is what we need sometimes. If it is Nightingale - Hoffman to the back. I'd love to see Locke get a bench spot (probably at the expense of Taylor) so we have some backs cover in there (and no disrespect to Taylor, but he's not a replacement hooker - if Luke goes down injured, I'd be putting Foran in there with SBW to five eighth).

I like the forward pack RobRoy just posted. Would rather Glenn or Locke gets Taylor's spot though.[DOUBLEPOST=1384904790][/DOUBLEPOST]
Agree with Locke at 1...but Hoffman is too good to be left outside the team altogether aye. I was initially thinking left wing for hoffman, but Cleary's confirmed nightingale will go there if Manu is out. Wonder if he's in plans for left centre

Also, about Bromich...thinking if he would be better served to start the game. Absorb the initial attack from Burgess brothers, and then let JWH come in and do his thing...

I like your thinking on Hoffman at centre, but given they haven't given him gametime there... suspect it will be Goodwin... This is where I'd love to have had Matai in the team... (but also, props to him for playing Samoa).
 
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I'm ok with Nightingale playing. He doesn't bring the same things as Manu (or Hoffman) to the wing... but he brings you attitude and grit, which is what we need sometimes. If it is Nightingale - Hoffman to the back. I'd love to see Locke get a bench spot (probably at the expense of Taylor) so we have some backs cover in there (and no disrespect to Taylor, but he's not a replacement hooker - if Luke goes down injured, I'd be putting Foran in there with SBW to five eighth).

I like the forward pack RobRoy just posted. Would rather Glenn or Locke gets Taylor's spot though.[DOUBLEPOST=1384904790][/DOUBLEPOST]

I like your thinking on Hoffman at centre, but given they haven't given him gametime there... suspect it will be Goodwin... This is where I'd love to have had Matai in the team... (but also, props to him for playing Samoa).

SBW as backup for halves
Foran as backup for Luke
Roger Tuivasa-Sheck cover for FB
Both our centres can move to wing
We have backrowers (Mannering/SBW) who can cover centres

Having locke on bench is a a spot wasted I'd reckon....He's either at FB or not play at all

I'd have an all forward bench...Eastwood in there for mine...
 
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