Post Match [Round 6, 2022] - Roosters vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

[Sup42]

A lot of interesting discussions in here, you know the Warriors are playing better around here, even their harshest critics care enough to post.

One thing, you take two points in front of the post. The only exception is when you are running out of time.

Only amateurs turn down a free two points, the Roosters and Storm kick those 9x out of 10.

If you run it there, it is like surrendering to this idea that you can't prevent opposition trys....and that you need to try to get four to six points with every chance, because your just not good enough to play to an 8-6 top four level chess match.

 

[Noitall]

The way Covid evolves I am no longer against signing unvaccinated twits like NAS.

It seems with the virus we are headed towards a strain that has full vaccine escape anyway.

Ergo why worry about it. Also NZ is heading rappidly to a model in line with the rest of the world where vaccine status will no longer be part of social discourse, it will be a private decision, where media have no interest, as all personal health care factors should be.

Sign him if you can get him and ignore the guys bollocks.

Really think height goes a long, Lindsay Collins was testament to that. Someone else without a deal who fits that mould is Jordan McLean, though he’s never had the same impact since leaving the storm. NAS is very friendly with Pene also, could help bring him over.

 

[VictorRadleysScrotum]

Who are the club going to target to replace Lodge next season if he doesn’t resign. No doubt our current rotation works when he plays but seems to lose something when he dosent.

Maybe an internal positional switch with Tohu Harris moving to prop, especially given we seem to be overflowing with backrowers.

 

[Wrighty]

And another question / complaint. Why was the clock allowed to tick down a full two minutes while Walker took forever to kick the final penalty.
I thought when less than ten minutes the clock stopped winding down. We have been hit in the other direction by that rule.

 

[Wrighty]

And another thing. In the last ten minutes when we could only make 2 metres on every carry when trying to go 75 metres to score a try, yes their line speed was fast.
Too fast.
They were fricking flagrantly off side.

 

[Dixpat]

And another question / complaint. Why was the clock allowed to tick down a full two minutes while Walker took forever to kick the final penalty.
I thought when less than ten minutes the clock stopped winding down. We have been hit in the other direction by that rule.

There is a 90 second rule for taking a kick and then the clock stops

 

[#robbiemears]

The 8-point margin seems to me to be an accurate reflection of both the match itself and the status of both teams in the competition. The Roosters are likely a top four team (albeit not necessarily playing like one ... yet!); we'll perhaps challenge for eighth place, at best. So all things considered, and with a handful of our best players out, it was a commendable performance.

I like the way Brownie handled the press conference. He's right: there is no global conspiracy against the Warriors from the NRL hierarchy all the way down to the various whistleblowers in charge. That stuff is like the Trumpers claiming that the 2020 election was stolen in some form of mass coordination. The truth is, the Warriors have some calls go against them, and some for them. Just like most teams do. Payten was probably correct in his assumption that the rub often goes against the weaker sides as part of an unconscious bias. But anything else is just fishing for excuses.

The more pertinent point is what Brownie said about the boys stopping playing footy and reverting back to predictable one-out hit-ups. You could see it happening: we got 8-0 up and the brakes went on. The expansive play that had been working so well was iced in favor of safety first. It almost seemed like they were trying to run out the clock. The problem was, there were 60 minutes or so left still.

The Roosters were super fast in defence, pushing up in waves, and for some reason, we were playing way too deep with the ball and kept turning it back inside. So by the time the ball runner had a head of steam up, they were getting pummelled at the line. When the speed against you is THAT fast, it's imperative you think laterally ... literally ... and get some width on the passes to get outside it. Or, go over the top with short kicks to the wings to catch out the outside backs. That was Shaun Johnson's responsibility, and he didn't deliver.

Brownie knows this. He's mentioned it numerous times over the past few seasons (he said as much pre-game: you can't beat teams like the Roosters just banging the ball up the middle). However, it's a recurring pattern of thought amongst the key on-field decision-makers. Faced with the pressure of a high-paced, well-drilled line, they revert back to safety first. And it rarely ends well.

There were some positive signs though. Chanel Harris-Tavita is growing into his role with every game. He's clearly feeling more confident and empowered and is starting to take the line on a bit too. This is needed because post-Archilles rupture Shaun Johnson is no longer a threat with his feet. The psychological scars are deep (I speak from experience as I'm currently dealing with the same thing), which means that passing and kicking is his thing now. You can see defenders pull off Shaun Johnson these days knowing he's not going to challenge them directly. That means Chanel Harris-Tavita will have to start posing more questions with the ball to compensate.

Also, it has to be said: Curran is just a beast. He's like a young man's Michael Luck: fearless, tireless, and super committed. He looks like a leader of men, and speaks like one too.

On the flipside, Walshy is fas less impactful this season. Perhaps the opposition have figured him out, or he's just not clicking with Shaun Johnson yet and getting the ball at the right time and place. When he first hit the NRL, he was so electric. Brash, arrogant even. He demanded the ball and got it when it wanted it. Remember those cut-out passes for tries? He was a menace every time he touched the ball. This year, not so much. Perhaps the rigours of being smashed week in and week out have caught up with him. He lacks bulk and these fellas hit HARD. Whatever it is, we need his mojo, and Shaun Johnson has to position him better to create those overlaps in the way he did so effectively with Tomkins.

Next weekend will be a free hit for us. No one expects the lads to win. So hopefully freed up from any expectation, they can relax a little and play more footy.

 

[Noitall]

The 8-point margin seems to me to be an accurate reflection of both the match itself and the status of both teams in the competition. The Roosters are likely a top four team (albeit not necessarily playing like one ... yet!); we'll perhaps challenge for eighth place, at best. So all things considered, and with a handful of our best players out, it was a commendable performance.

I like the way Brownie handled the press conference. He's right: there is no global conspiracy against the Warriors from the NRL hierarchy all the way down to the various whistleblowers in charge. That stuff is like the Trumpers claiming that the 2020 election was stolen in some form of mass coordination. The truth is, the Warriors have some calls go against them, and some for them. Just like most teams do. Payten was probably correct in his assumption that the rub often goes against the weaker sides as part of an unconscious bias. But anything else is just fishing for excuses.

The more pertinent point is what Brownie said about the boys stopping playing footy and reverting back to predictable one-out hit-ups. You could see it happening: we got 8-0 up and the brakes went on. The expansive play that had been working so well was iced in favor of safety first. It almost seemed like they were trying to run out the clock. The problem was, there were 60 minutes or so left still.

The Roosters were super fast in defence, pushing up in waves, and for some reason, we were playing way too deep with the ball and kept turning it back inside. So by the time the ball runner had a head of steam up, they were getting pummelled at the line. When the speed against you is THAT fast, it's imperative you think laterally ... literally ... and get some width on the passes to get outside it. Or, go over the top with short kicks to the wings to catch out the outside backs. That was Shaun Johnson's responsibility, and he didn't deliver.

Brownie knows this. He's mentioned it numerous times over the past few seasons (he said as much pre-game: you can't beat teams like the Roosters just banging the ball up the middle). However, it's a recurring pattern of thought amongst the key on-field decision-makers. Faced with the pressure of a high-paced, well-drilled line, they revert back to safety first. And it rarely ends well.

There were some positive signs though. Chanel Harris-Tavita is growing into his role with every game. He's clearly feeling more confident and empowered and is starting to take the line on a bit too. This is needed because post-Archilles rupture Shaun Johnson is no longer a threat with his feet. The psychological scars are deep (I speak from experience as I'm currently dealing with the same thing), which means that passing and kicking is his thing now. You can see defenders pull off Shaun Johnson these days knowing he's not going to challenge them directly. That means Chanel Harris-Tavita will have to start posing more questions with the ball to compensate.

Also, it has to be said: Curran is just a beast. He's like a young man's Michael Luck: fearless, tireless, and super committed. He looks like a leader of men, and speaks like one too.

On the flipside, Walshy is fas less impactful this season. Perhaps the opposition have figured him out, or he's just not clicking with Shaun Johnson yet and getting the ball at the right time and place. When he first hit the NRL, he was so electric. Brash, arrogant even. He demanded the ball and got it when it wanted it. Remember those cut-out passes for tries? He was a menace every time he touched the ball. This year, not so much. Perhaps the rigours of being smashed week in and week out have caught with him. He lacks bulk and these lads hit HARD. Whatever it is, we need his mojo, and Shaun Johnson has to position him better to create those overlaps in the way he did so effectively with Tomkins.

Next weekend will be a free hit for us. No one expects the lads to win. So hopefully freed up from any expectation, they can relax a little and play more footy.

Really enjoyed that read as it seems quite accurate, we seemed to be in the grind for most of the match with great play inside our 20 attack and defensively. Nice set play to score first but as you say were prepared to sit on that, it took chasing the game to see Shaun Johnson and Walsh connect for a brilliant try to Dallin Watene-Zelezniak. Also agree regarding Shaun Johnson, you could see the fear in his face when he went down with his knee seemingly connecting with another. There was one game recently that I saw the elusiveness but when his time is taken away he still struggles as he always did with our limited forward packs over the years he was behind. I don’t understand why we don’t see more kicks to the in goal forcing set replays because we sometimes see one and they go away from it. He’s fairly consistent with it. I was interested to see your assessment because I took a lot of interest in your knowledge of Brown and your assessment of him as a coach. I was wondering if anything has changed in your assessment of where he could take us and in the case of your positives whether you think there could be a building of something?

 

[VictorRadleysScrotum]

The 8-point margin seems to me to be an accurate reflection of both the match itself and the status of both teams in the competition. The Roosters are likely a top four team (albeit not necessarily playing like one ... yet!); we'll perhaps challenge for eighth place, at best. So all things considered, and with a handful of our best players out, it was a commendable performance.

I like the way Brownie handled the press conference. He's right: there is no global conspiracy against the Warriors from the NRL hierarchy all the way down to the various whistleblowers in charge. That stuff is like the Trumpers claiming that the 2020 election was stolen in some form of mass coordination. The truth is, the Warriors have some calls go against them, and some for them. Just like most teams do. Payten was probably correct in his assumption that the rub often goes against the weaker sides as part of an unconscious bias. But anything else is just fishing for excuses.

The more pertinent point is what Brownie said about the boys stopping playing footy and reverting back to predictable one-out hit-ups. You could see it happening: we got 8-0 up and the brakes went on. The expansive play that had been working so well was iced in favor of safety first. It almost seemed like they were trying to run out the clock. The problem was, there were 60 minutes or so left still.

The Roosters were super fast in defence, pushing up in waves, and for some reason, we were playing way too deep with the ball and kept turning it back inside. So by the time the ball runner had a head of steam up, they were getting pummelled at the line. When the speed against you is THAT fast, it's imperative you think laterally ... literally ... and get some width on the passes to get outside it. Or, go over the top with short kicks to the wings to catch out the outside backs. That was Shaun Johnson's responsibility, and he didn't deliver.

Brownie knows this. He's mentioned it numerous times over the past few seasons (he said as much pre-game: you can't beat teams like the Roosters just banging the ball up the middle). However, it's a recurring pattern of thought amongst the key on-field decision-makers. Faced with the pressure of a high-paced, well-drilled line, they revert back to safety first. And it rarely ends well.

There were some positive signs though. Chanel Harris-Tavita is growing into his role with every game. He's clearly feeling more confident and empowered and is starting to take the line on a bit too. This is needed because post-Archilles rupture Shaun Johnson is no longer a threat with his feet. The psychological scars are deep (I speak from experience as I'm currently dealing with the same thing), which means that passing and kicking is his thing now. You can see defenders pull off Shaun Johnson these days knowing he's not going to challenge them directly. That means Chanel Harris-Tavita will have to start posing more questions with the ball to compensate.

Also, it has to be said: Curran is just a beast. He's like a young man's Michael Luck: fearless, tireless, and super committed. He looks like a leader of men, and speaks like one too.

On the flipside, Walshy is fas less impactful this season. Perhaps the opposition have figured him out, or he's just not clicking with Shaun Johnson yet and getting the ball at the right time and place. When he first hit the NRL, he was so electric. Brash, arrogant even. He demanded the ball and got it when it wanted it. Remember those cut-out passes for tries? He was a menace every time he touched the ball. This year, not so much. Perhaps the rigours of being smashed week in and week out have caught with him. He lacks bulk and these lads hit HARD. Whatever it is, we need his mojo, and Shaun Johnson has to position him better to create those overlaps in the way he did so effectively with Tomkins.

Next weekend will be a free hit for us. No one expects the lads to win. So hopefully freed up from any expectation, they can relax a little and play more footy.

Great post mate, thanks for that. I was fucking steaming last night but this has cooled me down haha

 

[Louim8]

Walsh is often out of position on defence, is not safe under the high ball, has stopped sniffing rounds the props, he makes some miracle plays now and then and is a great goal kicker. He a made a mistake that led to the roosters dominating us in the first ten minutes of the 2nd half which is where we lost the game. If you are rating him on his impact on the game wrighty is possibly a bit harsh but not that far off in my opinion.

A bit harsh...if you use a 1 - 10 rating 0 being the worst game a player could play and 10 a perfect game then a rating of 1 is far too harsh.

Also walsh was not out of position at any point in that game, if you have been paying attention to it he has improved out of sight in that area just these last few games. He even made a few try saving tackles, including the 1 that went upstairs and cane back a double movement.

He doesn't hang around the ruck because thats the way the coachs want him to play and its indicative of their gameplan. They set up Shaun Johnson and Chanel Harris-Tavita on either side and walsh is to chime in where he feels. The way nrl defense has set up now is the space is on the edges, the teams try and play through the middle before sending plays to the edges.

Under the high ball he does loom shaky at times but again hes getting much better at it. Alot of the high kicks the roosters put in were great kicks with great chases.

He also was unlucky not to score a try, made one from nothing and looked dangerous everytime he touched the ball.

Personally i would rate him a 6 or 7 out of 10. Great on attack, goal kicking is fantastic, defense was solid, made a bad unforced error and dropped a catchable high ball while under a bit of pressure. Solid game imo.

 

[PNG Kiwi]

A bit late in posting.

Only got to see the second half and the frustration of those first 10 minutes where everything went wrong.

Boys showed a lot of ticker and certainly no blow out. I think we make the top 8 but will have to continue improving and combinations start working. I gave the game a B

 

[Wrighty]

Your theory does not take into account all relevant factors. Like in rel life, say an air accident can be analysed down to blame. What about terrorism? The footage of the terrorists going through the boarding process on 9/11, they tried tin that poor guy, but he did his job right as per his job description.

There are two types of mistakes on the field, forced and unforced, Walsh's kick was an unforced error, it is not part of a pattern of such mistakes, nor do I expect it is the start of a pattern. Shit happens, move on.

Forced erors wer caused by the Roosters linespeed, because of injuries the Warriors were short of go forward and so they were smothered. The worst mistake I saw was Dallin Watene-Zelezniak putting that kick down, relatively standard for a player like him, but pressure caused a mistake.

Same as for Bunty and Pene, they didn't have much front foot ball and they were smothered, they did not play badly, the Roosters played well.

I think it was a good performance for a team missing some of their best forwards. Or are you saying Ben Murdoch-Masila, Harris, Lodge and Jazz wouldn't have helped?

Unforced errors more lose you games than forced errors in my view.

The other analogy I wanted to give was from my teenage years.
4 of us used to play tennis every weekend. I was probably the best player so was teamed with the 4th best player. The 2nd and 3rd best players would always win as my partner had a very weak backhand.
The opposition were better than us.
So to try to pull off an upset we had to try to play smarter than them.
1) I would go for winners when I had the chance as the longer the rallies were the more likely they could start to pin and target my friend's backhand.
2) We developed a theory where we would blitz and go all out on the first point of each game, be it there serve or ours. we figured that the first point set the momentum for the service game and allowed you a psychological edge. After the first point was over we play more consistent tennis as you couldn't expend maximum energy on every play.
The opposition caught wind of our tactic and said they didn't care. Their strategy was more pragmatic "every point is important and we will try equally hard on all the points".

Those guys kept winning but we nearly toppled them a few times.

The moral of the story is that there a two schools of thought.

1) School A - every point and every moment is important and it is not a meaningful exercise to try to highlight a turning point or key errors in the game and naming that error the complete undoing of the entire match.
2) School B - games of tennis, league, or cricket, are games of momentum and once you get on a roll everything clicks or can click against you. Key unforced errors or not winning the start of a service game in tennis can make you play catch up for the rest of the match and change the score board pressure.

Some people resonate with School A. Yourself and Louie appear to be in this category that every moment is equally important.
Some people like myself resonate with School B.
Never the twain shall meet. And both schools can not be proven to be either be right or wrong as you can think of use cases where each is valid.

What I can comment on is that in my view when you are a more skilled team like the Roosters then you can use School A more often and try to kill off or recover from your mistakes when you make them.
When you are a less skilled team like me and my tennis partner, or dare I say the Warriors compared to the Roosters then you need every scrap of momentum you can get to cause an upset and concepts like momentum and score board pressure and turning points become more relevant.
If we are benchmarking to be a top 4 team then certainly we put ourselves into and learn from a School A mindset where we can make unforced errors like kicking the ball out of the full to start the second half and still expect to win games.
I suggest while we are a fledgling contender who do not have a good reputation or rub of the green with referees that School B and learning from School B is more applicable and that theory says how you start the second half in the first couple of sets is critical and will define the whole match.

At the end of the day I am comfortable with you completely disagreeing and believe that 50% of fans or maybe even 60% would go with School A over School B. You are not alone with your disagreement to my theories.

Sorry for length.

 

[Aman]

I also think Shaun Johnson failed to take charge in that game and made some crucial errors/wrong calls. One of those "wheres Shaun Johnson?" Games.

Hopefully just a blip in the radar otherwise we'll be questioning whether the boy ever became a man.

 

[Sup42]

Fastest game of the year for the Warriors, what pleased me after all our slow starts, that we got into the pace of the game fairly quickly after conceding massive ground at the very beginning.

The Roosters did us a favor, they kicked our game up to the speed we will need to play the Storm.

You gotta remember, if we have only just started playing at top four speeds, we are going to make some errors, we just not used to that constant high level intensity.

Win or lose this week, the challenge will be for Brown to keep that intensity up, especially if we lose in a Heartbreakers.

Got to get tougher and hold onto to a tough fast paced game.

Line speed and kick chase with Jazz back will help a lot.

The base fitness is there. We came into this season as fit as ever.

Defensive coaches have to go all the way from here, they have improved us each week, but now they have to really flog these guys to a new standard of line speed evert week.

 

[Greenlite]

Pretty pissed at that Addin Fonua-Blake ugly call when we finally had the energy to duke it out with 14 to go, same crap last year when he got slapped by a Dragon late in the game & no call.

I get you don’t want to linger on the ref and gotta look after your own game etc etc

But if you keep getting TMO blind calls like this in 50/50 games at CRUCIAL times, you ain’t gonna get anywhere, we’re not the storm or crusaders, the management need to pressure the league through diplomatic means. Or Will Smith it

Playing in NZ should help too, home ground is hole ground, energy or ref’s pressure wise

 

[Noitall]

NZ Warriors will seek formal clarification on a number of incidents they aren't happy with from Sunday's defeat to Sydney Roosters.

Newshub understands the club will ask for a please explain from the NRL's referees boss, Graham Annesley.

But while they want answers, coach Nathan Brown is looking at their own costly mistakesfrom the 22-14 loss.

 

[gubbbs]

Of course technically they could have won regardless of the ref but that's a retarded argument. Pro sports is a tight run thing and poor ref decisions absolutely make a difference over the course of a season.

I don't think there's a conspiracy, but I absolutely think there's a pattern and it's been consistent for too long.

Also, while I don't think there's a conspiracy, it's certainly not a crazy idea. People had been saying it about the NBA for ages and obviously it sounded outrageous. Turns out it was widespread and far more severe than anything brought up here. And that's in a sport where one team is worth more than the entire NRL.

 

[Swanny]

The 8-point margin seems to me to be an accurate reflection of both the match itself and the status of both teams in the competition. The Roosters are likely a top four team (albeit not necessarily playing like one ... yet!); we'll perhaps challenge for eighth place, at best. So all things considered, and with a handful of our best players out, it was a commendable performance.

I like the way Brownie handled the press conference. He's right: there is no global conspiracy against the Warriors from the NRL hierarchy all the way down to the various whistleblowers in charge. That stuff is like the Trumpers claiming that the 2020 election was stolen in some form of mass coordination. The truth is, the Warriors have some calls go against them, and some for them. Just like most teams do. Payten was probably correct in his assumption that the rub often goes against the weaker sides as part of an unconscious bias. But anything else is just fishing for excuses.

The more pertinent point is what Brownie said about the boys stopping playing footy and reverting back to predictable one-out hit-ups. You could see it happening: we got 8-0 up and the brakes went on. The expansive play that had been working so well was iced in favor of safety first. It almost seemed like they were trying to run out the clock. The problem was, there were 60 minutes or so left still.

The Roosters were super fast in defence, pushing up in waves, and for some reason, we were playing way too deep with the ball and kept turning it back inside. So by the time the ball runner had a head of steam up, they were getting pummelled at the line. When the speed against you is THAT fast, it's imperative you think laterally ... literally ... and get some width on the passes to get outside it. Or, go over the top with short kicks to the wings to catch out the outside backs. That was Shaun Johnson's responsibility, and he didn't deliver.

Brownie knows this. He's mentioned it numerous times over the past few seasons (he said as much pre-game: you can't beat teams like the Roosters just banging the ball up the middle). However, it's a recurring pattern of thought amongst the key on-field decision-makers. Faced with the pressure of a high-paced, well-drilled line, they revert back to safety first. And it rarely ends well.

There were some positive signs though. Chanel Harris-Tavita is growing into his role with every game. He's clearly feeling more confident and empowered and is starting to take the line on a bit too. This is needed because post-Archilles rupture Shaun Johnson is no longer a threat with his feet. The psychological scars are deep (I speak from experience as I'm currently dealing with the same thing), which means that passing and kicking is his thing now. You can see defenders pull off Shaun Johnson these days knowing he's not going to challenge them directly. That means Chanel Harris-Tavita will have to start posing more questions with the ball to compensate.

Also, it has to be said: Curran is just a beast. He's like a young man's Michael Luck: fearless, tireless, and super committed. He looks like a leader of men, and speaks like one too.

On the flipside, Walshy is fas less impactful this season. Perhaps the opposition have figured him out, or he's just not clicking with Shaun Johnson yet and getting the ball at the right time and place. When he first hit the NRL, he was so electric. Brash, arrogant even. He demanded the ball and got it when it wanted it. Remember those cut-out passes for tries? He was a menace every time he touched the ball. This year, not so much. Perhaps the rigours of being smashed week in and week out have caught up with him. He lacks bulk and these fellas hit HARD. Whatever it is, we need his mojo, and Shaun Johnson has to position him better to create those overlaps in the way he did so effectively with Tomkins.

Next weekend will be a free hit for us. No one expects the lads to win. So hopefully freed up from any expectation, they can relax a little and play more footy.

So have you warmed to Brown as head coach? If he can’t get the growth out of the squad that is required in the next couple of years would you be happy with him taking the Craig Hodges role, given the way he has been able to bring guys like Curran, Kosi, Otukolo etc through?

 

[ramps]

Taken me a couple days to process.
Where we actually lost the game was straight out of half time. correct me if im wrong. But I roughly recall walsh kicked it on the full then there was a six again and a penalty. That was direct proof that we can beat anyone as long as we dont beat ourselves first.

But we did look awesome in patches. Defence was the best ive seen for a long time so its promising. Were slowly clicking. Just need to keep consistency on our team selection.

Surely kosi keeps his jersey when montoya is back. Dallin Watene-Zelezniak hes a ticking time bomb for an error. Some of the touches he had basically wasted a run count. He seems soo much smaller than i remember him being. He gets monstered every time.

Pompey Probably had his best game. Still dont rate him but hes doing his job i guess.

we missed lodge or tevaga. We lacked some aggression when Addin Fonua-Blake went off.

 

[Juno]

NZ Warriors will seek formal clarification on a number of incidents they aren't happy with from Sunday's defeat to Sydney Roosters.

Newshub understands the club will ask for a please explain from the NRL's referees boss, Graham Annesley.

But while they want answers, coach Nathan Brown is looking at their own costly mistakesfrom the 22-14 loss.

I think this is the strategic way to have that discussion. Call out the refs at the end of the game and you alienate them (if they have bias) and look like whinging, trying to make excuses for your own failings etc. The media love that sort of stuff & public goodwill goes out the window when they make you out to be what you're not.
To approach the issue thru these channels means they have to look at what you're saying & seeing, each issue, and explain whether your point of view is right or wrong, and why.
It's an opportunity to learn for them & the Warriors if they are wrong and do better.
Doesn't change the result if the refs exercised poor skills or bias in this game, but it could hopefully change the playing field going forward.
Both sides...