General Religious Discussion Thread

[Paulo24]

Big bangs are not observable events. No one has ever seen anything created like a planet etc via a Big Bang. The Big Bang is outside of the observable or natural order. In other words the world was created via a SUPERnatural order whichever way you look at it.

Also everything that is had a cause...

 

[Gizzyfan]

My Dad was a Pilot in WW2, at the time he was a staunch Catholic. His Mates and him went to Mass one Sunday and had been exhorted by the Priest to kill the German.

After they were talking about how Germany was/is a strongly Catholic country. They then realised That at the same time a German Priest was exhorting their guys to kill the allies. All the same Church.

Dad never went to Church again, only for Weddings and Funerals. As for form filling he refused to put anything other than free thinker.

I do not think thatb should bother a believer, it just shows how man can corrupt most things.

 

[Paulo24]

My Dad was a Pilot in WW2, at the time he was a staunch Catholic. His Mates and him went to Mass one Sunday and had been exhorted by the Priest to kill the German.

After they were talking about how Germany was/is a strongly Catholic country. They then realised That at the same time a German Priest was exhorting their guys to kill the allies. All the same Church.

Dad never went to Church again, only for Weddings and Funerals. As for form filling he refused to put anything other than free thinker.

I do not think thatb should bother a believer, it just shows how man can corrupt most things.

Real stuff. Crazy choices they had to consider.

 

[Worried2Death]

Also everything that is had a cause...

That's a probability, not an ultimate reality. We just make things up to try explain the unknowable, for all we know we're like cows trying to comprehend McDonalds, and we never will, unless at some point in the future we evolve into all knowing aliens, like the little greys who come back in time to probe us. Then we'll be the probers and theyll be writing myths and holy books to explain that. But, I digress, let's get the thread back to reality. Anyone here know where that is?

 

[Paulo24]

That's a probability, not an ultimate reality. We just make things up to try explain the unknowable, for all we know we're like cows trying to comprehend McDonalds, and we never will, unless at some point in the future we evolve into all knowing aliens, like the little greys who come back in time to probe us. Then we'll be the probers and theyll be writing myths and holy books to explain that. But, I digress, let's get the thread back to reality. Anyone here know where that is?

Its scientific, nothing has ever been observed without causation. Name something that doesn't have a cause? Matter in nature doesn't just exist.

 

[Worried2Death]

Its scientific, nothing has ever been observed without causation. Name something that doesn't have a cause? Matter in nature doesn't just exist.

Matter may in reality be something that can't be measured in any way that we can perceive, in which case there's no reason to presume a single linear event that precedes it or causes itself to happen. Saying matter doesn't just exist is a nonsensical statement when we can't even define matter, let alone existence. Do you accept that possibility?

 

[Paulo24]

Matter may in reality be something that can't be measured in any way that we can perceive, in which case there's no reason to presume a single linear event that precedes it or causes itself to happen. Saying matter doesn't just exist is a nonsensical statement when we can't even define matter, let alone existence. Do you accept that possibility?

No I don't agree with what you have stated (kindly). I think you are confusing philosophy with science. Science accepts matter and deals with what is, and what is observable. Science evaluates, observes and quantifies matter and its causes or the forces that influence matter ie gravity. Thats why it observes and measures experiments etc.

SCIENCE
noun
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
any of the branches of natural or physical science.
systematized knowledge in general.
knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
a particular branch of knowledge.

MATTER
noun
the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed: the matter of which the earth is made.
physical or corporeal substance in general, whether solid, liquid, or gaseous, especially as distinguished from incorporeal substance, as spirit or mind, or from qualities, actions, and the like.
something that occupies space.
a particular kind of substance: coloring matter.

 

[Worried2Death]

No I don't agree with what you have stated (kindly). I think you are confusing philosophy with science. Science accepts matter and deals with what is, and what is observable. Science evaluates, observes and quantifies matter and its causes or the forces that influence matter ie gravity. Thats why it observes and measures experiments etc.

SCIENCE
noun
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
any of the branches of natural or physical science.
systematized knowledge in general.
knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
a particular branch of knowledge.

MATTER
noun
the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed: the matter of which the earth is made.
physical or corporeal substance in general, whether solid, liquid, or gaseous, especially as distinguished from incorporeal substance, as spirit or mind, or from qualities, actions, and the like.
something that occupies space.
a particular kind of substance: coloring matter.

Quantum branches of physics don't assume the nature of matter according to that dictionary definition, theoretical physics isn't empirically observable fact by any measures we have, unless CERN can find them.

When I was struggling with faith and spirituality once, I read a book called Why I Am Not A Christian, Bertrand Russel. He says science asks how, philosophy asks why. Philosophy would need to invent a new language to discuss the possibilities considered in theoretical fields of physics, we won't even have a way of describing reality until we know what it is.

Unless of course you're right about Jesus, and the right words were in front of us all the time. I'd fight for your right to believe it because if someone tries to take it away they might turn on me next. That's the paradoxical drawback of absolute inclusion, taken to polemic extremes it can't be defined without exclusion.

 

[Paulo24]

Unless of course you're right about Jesus, and the right words were in front of us all the time. I'd fight for your right to believe it because if someone tries to take it away they might turn on me next. That's the paradoxical drawback of absolute inclusion, taken to polemic extremes it can't be defined without exclusion.

We agree on the above. I support everyones right to think for themselves and express their views. I also think God wants that as well, as we are created with intelligence. The primary reason I support freedom and believe God does is that He wants peoples hearts, and only freedom provides that option. He let's us evaluate, think and choose.

 

[Worried2Death]

We agree on the above. I support everyones right to think for themselves and express their views. I also think God wants that as well, as we are created with intelligence. The primary reason I support freedom and believe God does is that He wants peoples hearts, and only freedom provides that option. He let's us evaluate, think and choose.

Dunno how old you are but I grew up watching David Carradine on tv in Kung Fu. In one episode the old zen master, who was like Yoda, taught him about the altar of the soul, "where yin is yang, dark is light, east is west, life is death. To accept knowledge of life is acceptance of that which is not life, to achieve enlightenment one must accept both existence and non-existence, being and nothingness. And never listen to anyone who claims to have found the only tŕue path to eternal life, that's when you know you're in a cult grasshopper. All these cult leaders inevitably turn out to be sexual deviants and predators for some reason, despite their protestations of being framed by liberals n league with Satan and the forces of darkness. I don't know grasshopper, I dont like your chances of not getting crucified when you head back west mate."

Then he went to the states and started levitating and catching bullets with his bare hands. It was a parable about Jesus really, after he was chosen as a baby to be educated as a Dalai by the three lamas from the east in Kashmir. I learned more about God from David Carradine than I ever did at a church or temple. The ancient master reminds me of Bruce, all knowing and always right about everything.

 

[Worried2Death]

Just turned on the radio and they're having an overnight talkback discussion about the rainbow jersey controversy.

"Pride round, why do they need pride round, this bloody rainbow agenda has gone too far, what's next bloody pedo round? I don't see them having Christian round, what about free George Pell round, you'll never see that. All part of the socialist agenda to sexualize our kids and turn us into Weimar Germany, it's the globalists again, wake up sheeple. And we all know who they are, it's" *sudden cut to ad while the dump delay catches up* "there ain't nothing like a Crown, for picking it up and putting it down." ~newstalkzb

 

[Worried2Death]

Everyone's gone to bed, must be time for some John Prine, everyone loves a bit of John Prine.

 

[DallyM]

Just turned on the radio and they're having an overnight talkback discussion about the rainbow jersey controversy.

"Pride round, why do they need pride round, this bloody rainbow agenda has gone too far, what's next bloody pedo round? I don't see them having Christian round, what about free George Pell round, you'll never see that. All part of the socialist agenda to sexualize our kids and turn us into Weimar Germany, it's the globalists again, wake up sheeple. And we all know who they are, it's" *sudden cut to ad while the dump delay catches up* "there ain't nothing like a Crown, for picking it up and putting it down." ~newstalkzb

Dude the fundamentalists always come out after dark on talkback radio lol 🤣 thank God I found quantum physics

 

[Worried2Death]

Dude the fundamentalists always come out after dark on talkback radio lol 🤣 thank God I found quantum physics

Worst thing about working nights is that's when all the nutters are awake talking to themselves bro. Praise Heyzeuss and the cult of quantum physics, and the great prophet Stephen Hawking, I was lost but now I'm found.

 

[Worried2Death]

Everyone's gone to bed, must be time for some John Prine, everyone loves a bit of John Prine.

Good song bro, very thread relevant.

Here's one for all our LGBTQ+ Warriors whanau, we love you and we've got your back.

As God said in Genesis after he created Adam in his own image, you don't have to be gay to walk a mile in another man's shoes son, so before you cast the first stone, look at yourself in the mirror and repeat after me, "don't be a cu**".

 

[wizards rage]

Wizards the Big Bang theory is that at the Big Bang time started. Time did not exist before the Big Bang and it was not possible fir anything to happen
I read a book once that had ten alternatives to the Big Bang
One was that there was a singularity at the Big Bang and that time and events go backwards before the Big Bang with the universe expanding from a singularity as it goes backwards

There was also a bouncing universe theory where the universe is always either expanding away from a singularity or contracting towards one
With repeated big bangs each time it reaches singularity

I can’t believe the Big Bang was the first start of everything that is, which just happened to get billions of variables just right to allow life. Anything slightly out and the universe fails. Eg gravity a smidgen weaker or stronger and the universe ends up spread in helpfully far or stays a giant compact ball.

A single Big Bang universe is just impossible. It’s impossible to be just perfect with one shot.

So that leave me with there has been billion of attempts before our random universe (bouncing universe/ multiverse/ etc) or some intelligent design to create such a perfectly balanced universe. I don’t have the answers but our existing theories (Big Bang or God) don’t sit comfortably as explaining how we got here.

Separately the bigger question of why? Or what started it? Or what was at the very beginning? What started the first process that created everything? This is a bigger seperate question that needs explaining before we even consider a big bang or god. This is unanswerable because ‘Every cause must have a cause’.

Perhaps it’s beyond our level of understanding. My poor brand hurts if I think to hard about it 🤣

 

[ramps]

Best educated answer possible. Might be worth a watch for those debating the Big Bang theory (Science) etc. There is a 2 hour version of this clip where 3 highly educated scientists debate with this guy. But heres the 3 miniute version.

 

[wizards rage]

Best educated answer possible. Might be worth a watch for those debating the Big Bang theory (Science) etc. There is a 2 hour version of this clip where 3 highly educated scientists debate with this guy. But heres the 3 miniute version.

Doesn’t explain why or how god came about. Every cause (including god) must have a cause.

It’s an insurmountable roadblock that applies equally to all possible beginnings.

 

[ramps]

Doesn’t explain why or how god came about. Every cause (including god) must have a cause.

It’s an insurmountable roadblock that applies equally to all possible beginnings.

So you would rather assume that in a time where there was nothing. Nothing exploded and created the universe in a perfect balance? Animals and Humans alike, evolved from what? Can you explain how atoms/matter was created? Intelligence, emotion and the like cannot be created by atoms etc. At least that's what my uneducated guess is.

 

[Worried2Death]

So you would rather assume that in a time where there was nothing. Nothing exploded and created the universe in a perfect balance? Animals and Humans alike, evolved from what? a rock?

From a combination of elements like hydrogen, carbon and oxygen. What exactly the base matter of the particles that make up those elements is, and how it behaves in dimensions beyond the 4th dimension of non-linear time/space, no one knows.yet.