Post Match Warriors v Titans - [Round 8, 2024]
- Thread starter mt.wellington
- Start date
I think its more the public expectation after we had a season that completely defied where everyone thought we were going to end up. The hype this year has been like no other and maybe the pressure is getting to them on top of the injuries?
Beastmode
Contributor
Perspective
Losing by 3 against a top 4 team sure
Losing by 3 against a team who have not yet won a game this season, at home, on a big occasion - not so good!
Someone needs to give the team a real wake up call and a few slaps. Call in Nathan Brown for a favour …
Perspective
Losing by 3 against a top 4 team sure
Losing by 3 against a team who have not yet won a game this season, at home, on a big occasion - not so good!
Someone needs to give the team a real wake up call and a few slaps. Call in Nathan Brown for a favour …
Or Will Smith
Keep my wah's name out of your...
Gonna argue these points, but let me respectfully stress I am not arguing them against the writer, call it devils advocate (hate that term, I do not believe in the devil and I don't advocate for Khunts).
Excuse the preamble, Just saying here, your arguments are very popular among a lot of knowledgeable people at the moment, almost viral, everyone wants to see Webster change the plan because of the year two syndrome tip sheet (for the Lay fan an NRL tip sheet is a legendary thing where coaches have this list of weaknesses on every team and all their players, the legend states that this is how they script the defeat of their opposition - which leads to posts about Webster being out coached).
The problem with changing the plan, is that I think it is only called for when you have gone out there and executed Websters plan perfectly yet still get beaten.
In games, I see the opposite happening. I see the Warriors use Websters plan...at some juncture in a game...either at the beginning where Websters plan delivers them and early lead, or later when they are behind (Irony much, it is because of their very failings in executing Websters plan that they then go turbo boost using the same plan they ignored in the first place) ergo, when down against the Storm, Manly, the Titans, they start playing Webster ball and we almost thrash our opponents for a quarter of an NRL game....however lose narrowly in the end.
A narrow loss in my books is never about the game plan. Especially when that narrow loss is against a team of such high quality and dominance as the number one team on the ladder the Melbourne Storm.
A narrow loss is a function of key moments, of refs interpretations, of the bounce of the ball, of the chaos that is what one human being can do vs another (Coates does a Michael Jordan to steal a game the Warriors were winning).
Our failure to play Webster ball for eighty minutes means Andrew Webster is being unfairly judged as the problem....how can a coach with a solid proven plan, be at fault, when his players have not been able to stick to it for an eighty minute period?
Sure, ok, tip sheets are real, and yes any fool with eyes can see they are being employed against us, and sure sometimes it looks bad, however, let me use an example to counter this type of thinking.
The Melbourne Storm, during their reign of terror, played a template everyone knew well.
The Warriors found a way to exploit that template with dummy half runs and the odd second phase. At one time we were the only team in the NRL with a reliable tip sheet counter to the Storms dominance.
So did the Storm change their game plan for their encounters with the Warriors? No. Not once. Because they knew, that if they played Bellamy ball for eighty minutes a week, statistically that was the more reliable path to being there on GF day.
There is an old adage in life, and one Webster is using at the Warriors, work with what you have, design your plan around what your players are good at. Do that well and you can reach the top four, your coach can be Dally M coach of the year.
To throw all that out with the bath water for the sake of fans wanting to see something different, just because what we are seeing on telly is hard, seeing our Webster plays thwarted is hard, I get that, but if we were playing Webster ball correctly, for eighty minutes, no side would have posted more than eighteen points against us (eighty minutes of Webster balls means no easy trys) had we done that this year, we would be in the top four.
I accept year two syndrome is real, I accept that teams are reading us and hunting us. However I also believe that had we played our coaches plan correctly, for whole games, that we would be harder to beat than last year where we mostly played Webster ball.
What we need is not a change of plan, we need more minutes of the same plan.
Let me use the example of the Kiwis New Zealand international side. They need build up games to beat Australia, because the Kiwis are a hodge podge side of very talented people....guys who lack combinations....the very dynamic we face right now with our injury toll.
The reason the Kiwis upset Australia is that they adopt a very simple game plan and in tournament play they slowly get more polished with playing that simple plan until they can do it for eighty minutes, on paper they are weaker almost man for man than every Australian side ever selected.....and tellingly, the Australians are masters at adapting their plans on the foot and turning on unpredictable perfectly executed stellar superstar plays that can throw everything at you from every coaching manual in existence and beyond.
Were the Kiwis to try the same, they would lose every time. The Kiwis era of world dominance had nothing whatsoever to do with adapting game plans for opponents they had everything to do with doing what they do well. Amen.
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Also the fact we’ve essentially got both edges with a new player being RTS on the left and Capewell on the right was probably always going to take some time to get the trust of those playing outside them? In a perfect world it would have been ironed out in the pre season but there’s no substitute for true game situations. I’ve personally come to be at peace with this season being getting our edges performing and blooding young guys that will be valuable but still think top 8 is a must. I was concerned before about the loss of AFB and perhaps that’s been on the team’s mind too with the pressure of needing to get it done this year with the loss of him at the end of the year? I couldn’t think of a better year than next year to win it with the arrival of the proud Kiwis captain and think we’ll add the other pieces necessary between now and next year. Edges should be settled by then with really only middle being where recruitment is necessary
But Tohu's probably stuffed next year, SJ to rest half the season, and Capewell becoming Tohu and get more injured lol
I'm hoping for the 2nd half of the season to click, like Roosters 2018 or how the Cows went on for a run, or our own run after the first bye loss
So Webster has a plan for using the left side of the field and the boys are completely ignoring him?
Webster has a plan for contesting kicks and the boys are completely ignoring him?
This. 100% this. It's a player centric issue.
I would argue that our game has gone to shit, with our bench being injured.
Alot of people shit on the likes of Bunty and Jazz, but we've looked fucking horrible since they've not been able to play.
No Niukore either is massive.
Beastmode
Contributor
There are definite flaws with the grind game
At what point do you start introducing a bit more risk taking - contesting high balls, offloading and less structured play for the high risk high reward option?….
Pros - more enjoyable for the fans and probably the players too
Cons - errors
The team have lost that mental steel. They are almost robotic. No passion in the plays. Even when they score points it’s not the level of euphoria we see from the other teams.
Are they deliberately controlling their emotions - yoga style or have they clocked out mentally?
At what point do you start introducing a bit more risk taking - contesting high balls, offloading and less structured play for the high risk high reward option?….
Pros - more enjoyable for the fans and probably the players too
Cons - errors
The team have lost that mental steel. They are almost robotic. No passion in the plays. Even when they score points it’s not the level of euphoria we see from the other teams.
Are they deliberately controlling their emotions - yoga style or have they clocked out mentally?
Tough one bro. The left edge is a bust, however lets not forget Webster made the bold call to put Roger there out of position as a statement that he wants more this year from his left edge than 2023 - Pompey Montoya. So no one can accuse him of not knowing the left edge is a work in progress.
I don't know if the boys are ignoring him, I doubt it, rather I think Roger is not getting it, I think he is interpreting Websters Philosophy of play to your strengths, have a roving role, as him continuing to play like a one man game breaking fullback archetype that is wearing the four.
In such cases it is indeed on Webster to re evaluate and rescript the model.
Webby needs to have a sit down with Roger and TMM and our offensive coach and sought this out.
Ás for contesting kicks, the Freddy Kruger leg breaker incident has stymied us there....oh and throw in the penalty against Capewell for jumping for a kick a mile behind the catcher and still getting penalized, or Barney getting done for a charge down....I think we are not allowed to contest kicks because the bunker has ruled it so and handed us ugly defeats to make the point.
I wonder if the 'premiership window' talk sent them into super serious business mode.
We all know that they play well when theyre having fun.
Wrighty
Contributor
Nailed it.
They're not having Sydney Sweeney style euphoria because they know the dysfunction is about to kick in in 16 minutes, in saying that CNK was pretty pumped, he didn't know about the team's 20 minute time limit for Invincible Mario mode
Or we could keep digging the hole!
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