I never said Locke deserved a good run. I said he would lock up the jersey after a couple of 80 minute games. Which he did. Fish has now had several shots and has got progressively less worthy of more chances.
Gameday Rd 11 - Tigers Vs Warriors 18/05/12 + Postmatch Discussion
- Thread starter Tyrael
- Start date
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01 Jan 1970 12:00 minute |
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Match Stats
Player Statistics
| # | Player | T | Pts | TA | LB | TB | OFF | Ta | MT/IT | Pos | DR | H/M | K/M | AR/M | E | P |
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Player Statistics
| # | Player | T | Pts | TA | LB | TB | OFF | Ta | MT/IT | Pos | DR | H/M | K/M | AR/M | E | P |
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Gameday thread for Warriors games. Post your thoughts/discussion/news as the day and game unfolds. Scores/Stats update every 5mins during the game.
who else was shitting themselves when the boys were up in the first half? Any other side and the boys could have pulled away in the 2nd but the Tigers are a team that can come back at you. We should have been up a lot more after the 1st. The slippery conditions and grass I think was a just a tad too long were not ideal. The forwards should have punched more up the middle at one time during the 1st I felt we had them but mistake after mistake killed any mounted pressure.
first stages of the 2nd half were all Tigers and after that the game was pretty much up for grabs even the crowd came to life. Our defence needs a big overhaul. These last minute trys regardless of how many points behind or in front the boys are is doing my head in. To target Maloney in the defence line and get results isnt a lottery its a tactic, its a set play for the opposition. The boys need to get back to being a double edged sword were they can win games on the back of their defence. At the moment they are giving away far too many points. There are periods of good stuff but when it goes to shit . . . it really dips down there.
who else was a bit uncomfy when Gus was marinating all over the Fish and his speed? It brought back memories of his famous 'Cleary is someone you want your daughter to marry' comment last year . .
Hurrell has really impressed. I dont even think of Sa'u any more when I look at Hurrell, its more Tahu like. . . . . Tahu before he left the Knights, maybe even Wiki like when Wiki was at centre for the Raiders. The Fish I felt was just out there trying to get the basics right and no flash stuff. Brown was good off the bench.
Thats all I gots for now, another headache coming on.
first stages of the 2nd half were all Tigers and after that the game was pretty much up for grabs even the crowd came to life. Our defence needs a big overhaul. These last minute trys regardless of how many points behind or in front the boys are is doing my head in. To target Maloney in the defence line and get results isnt a lottery its a tactic, its a set play for the opposition. The boys need to get back to being a double edged sword were they can win games on the back of their defence. At the moment they are giving away far too many points. There are periods of good stuff but when it goes to shit . . . it really dips down there.
who else was a bit uncomfy when Gus was marinating all over the Fish and his speed? It brought back memories of his famous 'Cleary is someone you want your daughter to marry' comment last year . .
Hurrell has really impressed. I dont even think of Sa'u any more when I look at Hurrell, its more Tahu like. . . . . Tahu before he left the Knights, maybe even Wiki like when Wiki was at centre for the Raiders. The Fish I felt was just out there trying to get the basics right and no flash stuff. Brown was good off the bench.
Thats all I gots for now, another headache coming on.
Its a bit of an overused excuse if you ask me. When a team loses a week after a bashathon, its because their bodies have taken too much, but when they win its because they are battle-hardened. We are only eleven weeks in, its only just the start of bye season, and we are talking about how much a tough game has taken out of them.
I say they lost because they weren't up to it. Not because they put in too much last week.
Please don't swear when you have a Bulbasaur avatar. It's killing my childhood
Lol at Wallacenz. Trying to claim Fish is anything more than a NSW Cup player at this stage is just strange. Yes, his support play is fantastic. Yes, he took every long distance bomb well. No, his positioning in defense was not good. No, he did not go looking for the ball like Locke does.
The worst thing is that Fish has it in him to be a great player, but he's like the Tin Man...no heart. He just looks constantly disinterested, and not in an Inu type way. Inu looks like he doesn't give a shit, but 90% of the time is doing his best. Fish looks like he'd rather be tucked up in bed unless there's a try on offer.
Hopefully the bye has come at a good time for us. Locke will be back (fingers crossed) and Friend will be a week closer to returning. I think the dead weight of Packer and Lousi needs to be trimmed though. Room for one but not the other when Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino are clearly having more impact. We lose too much when Packer and Lousi are on the field.
Also, just saw the highlights for the Tigers last try...God was that a bad miss from Maloney. He REALLY ballsed that up. Hurrell could have done better, but it was Maloney's miss that really opened us up. James has been a bit of a liability lately, his defense is going backwards at a great rate of knots.
The worst thing is that Fish has it in him to be a great player, but he's like the Tin Man...no heart. He just looks constantly disinterested, and not in an Inu type way. Inu looks like he doesn't give a shit, but 90% of the time is doing his best. Fish looks like he'd rather be tucked up in bed unless there's a try on offer.
Hopefully the bye has come at a good time for us. Locke will be back (fingers crossed) and Friend will be a week closer to returning. I think the dead weight of Packer and Lousi needs to be trimmed though. Room for one but not the other when Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino are clearly having more impact. We lose too much when Packer and Lousi are on the field.
Also, just saw the highlights for the Tigers last try...God was that a bad miss from Maloney. He REALLY ballsed that up. Hurrell could have done better, but it was Maloney's miss that really opened us up. James has been a bit of a liability lately, his defense is going backwards at a great rate of knots.
Again I didn't say that was why they lost just it must affect performance. One of several contributions to why "they weren't up to it".
Mr Frank White
Contributor
you said at least 6 games last year. im pretty sure that was the number you put on it. that was prior to locke being given the job
im not claiming anything. im just saying give him a decent chance, hes had 2 games in a poor side and then the tigers game which i turned off after moltzens try. he must have been spectacularly bad in the last 5 minutes because he played well most of that match.. who is going to replace him anyway???? hes the best fb option atm
Locke failed the fitness test this week. If he is close enough that he is taking fitness tests, then the week off with the bye should be enough to return him to fitness. To retain Fish when Locke is able to play would be foolish.
Fish has proved himself to me. When you have spent a year in reserved grade dominating other teams and finally get another shot at first grade, you take the opportunity. You don't get lazy in defence, you don't look disinterested and you definitely don't jog when you have a reputation for being one of the fastest people in the game (The only times I have seen him sprint is with the tryline open in front of him). You give it everything, leave nothing in the tank, take no prisoners, etc, etc, etc.
It's a good call of course being smacked around affects a teams performance the following week, the first time we made the Finals the Storm played us the week before, both teams brutalized each other till the Warrios had no bench left in the MAtch.
The storm Coach made the comment that they had taken more out of us than any team ever, and that the Warriors chances for the next week had been shattered by them....Big call by a Coach.
Eels put 56 points on us for the record.
I personally think Fish had the best defensive game I've ever seen from him, he was really running hard to get to where he was needed, but he was badly out of position
all night, and im not sure it will improve all that much, no matter how long he plays there...but he was trying hard, and i will always applaud effort.
As I've said before, i dont think Fish is a natural fullback, which is no indictment on his skill, he just lacks the defensive instincts that the very good fullbacks have...
they read the game so well, and seem to know where they need to be, before it's obvious to everyone else.
Do we really need to spend time trying to build this guy into another position, if he is not a true FB? Why wouldn't we be better off to let him go and bring Omar in as a winger/cover fullback? There is no need to teach him to be a winger as he was a wing prior to becoming an incredibly talented defensive and offensive FB.
I can't see a purpose in trying to taylor him into a centre either. He doesn't appear to have a defensive mind, and we already have plenty of defensively weak centres to call on. We need a strong defender who can work on their offense, not vice versa.
I also think it would be foolish to move Locke to 5/8th in order to get Fish into the team. While I believe Locke could have the skill set needed for the new role, it would weaken our defence too much by putting Fish at FB with Locke in the halves, and we have options for 5/8th already.
I see no purpose in retaining him with any serious ambition of him moving up to first grade, it is just tying up money. The other option is to retain him on a minimal contract as our Vulcans FB. But he is definitely not worth first grade money playing in th Vulcans. He would be better to take his skills to another club who could use him more than we can.
I dont think Fish will ever be a good fullback, but to write him off completely as you seem to be doing is at the very least premature, he has plenty of speed and ability
that would transfer to other positions given some time, and he does have another 3 1/2 years on his contract so....
I completely agree that Locke is by far the best fullback we have or have ever had, and should never be moved to accommodate anyone.
Sorry for any repetition - but here's my two cents' worth:
What the game showed to me is that heart isn't enough to win you a game - Benji layed on their points through some really damned well thought out plays. He spotted Billy T up miles off the line on the 4th tackle and slipped a grubber through that was 99% assured of a try or repeat set; but most importantly, he didn't buy into the stupid Master vs Apprentice bullshit that dominated prematch discussion. Imo, Shauny did buy into it, and tried to 'out-Benji' Benji - his decision making in the 2nd half was self-centred in the extreme, as evidenced by his nearly total lack of coherent, planned last tackle options. Run around and hope for awesomeness? Fuck off.
As in every loss there are going to be individuals who come up with cock-ups that end up costing us the game, but I'm not really spitting venom over it this week. Nobody really had a disgusting game, although I'm really disappointed in Johnson's mindset. Even given the Tiggers' dominance of the 2nd forty, we ended up with a close game and an entertaining match.
A couple of things that crossed my mind during the game...
Anyone else reckon Mateo might be being played in the 13 to negate his tendency to drift out of position on defence? Not as much reaching in vain because he's moved a step too wide and left a half gap for a angling runner to expoit.
Manu is benefiting from having some of these kids in the team - he's really impressing me with his attitude in mentoring the younger guys. Even at the start of the season he'd have tried to step outside the defence instead of flicking the ball back inside to Benry (?)... yeah we still ended up in touch, but it showed a much greater awareness of the game than I've seen from him for a hell of a long time. His knock-on that led to a try was as much unlucky as it was a mistake, and again it was down to Benji's own awareness of the situation.
Team pep talks when they're gathered during a stop in play... been plenty of stick given to Mannering because he's not a ranter and raver, but anyone else notice how the bulk of that talking is being done by Iro?? Heard him admonishing players, telling them to take the tackle and respect the ball.
I'm gutted we lost a game we should have won, but in the end it came down to the halves' leadership being absent in the second half. And let's face it, Shauny's still basically a boy. I'm hoping Bluey will be in his ear over playing the game on its merits and not trying to be some fucken razzle-dazzle superstar every time he gets the ball.
What the game showed to me is that heart isn't enough to win you a game - Benji layed on their points through some really damned well thought out plays. He spotted Billy T up miles off the line on the 4th tackle and slipped a grubber through that was 99% assured of a try or repeat set; but most importantly, he didn't buy into the stupid Master vs Apprentice bullshit that dominated prematch discussion. Imo, Shauny did buy into it, and tried to 'out-Benji' Benji - his decision making in the 2nd half was self-centred in the extreme, as evidenced by his nearly total lack of coherent, planned last tackle options. Run around and hope for awesomeness? Fuck off.
As in every loss there are going to be individuals who come up with cock-ups that end up costing us the game, but I'm not really spitting venom over it this week. Nobody really had a disgusting game, although I'm really disappointed in Johnson's mindset. Even given the Tiggers' dominance of the 2nd forty, we ended up with a close game and an entertaining match.
A couple of things that crossed my mind during the game...
Anyone else reckon Mateo might be being played in the 13 to negate his tendency to drift out of position on defence? Not as much reaching in vain because he's moved a step too wide and left a half gap for a angling runner to expoit.
Manu is benefiting from having some of these kids in the team - he's really impressing me with his attitude in mentoring the younger guys. Even at the start of the season he'd have tried to step outside the defence instead of flicking the ball back inside to Benry (?)... yeah we still ended up in touch, but it showed a much greater awareness of the game than I've seen from him for a hell of a long time. His knock-on that led to a try was as much unlucky as it was a mistake, and again it was down to Benji's own awareness of the situation.
Team pep talks when they're gathered during a stop in play... been plenty of stick given to Mannering because he's not a ranter and raver, but anyone else notice how the bulk of that talking is being done by Iro?? Heard him admonishing players, telling them to take the tackle and respect the ball.
I'm gutted we lost a game we should have won, but in the end it came down to the halves' leadership being absent in the second half. And let's face it, Shauny's still basically a boy. I'm hoping Bluey will be in his ear over playing the game on its merits and not trying to be some fucken razzle-dazzle superstar every time he gets the ball.
Absolutely. But you have to remember that Locke still hasn't even played a full season at FB. Compare their first season (not the combination of many seasons) with his first season at FB.
Good post Massive. I think some people need to draw a distinction between criticizing Mannering as a Captain versus as a player.
Sometimes having your most inspirational Player as the leader works well, especially Leading teams that own self responsibility well and think well for themselves / are consistent with sticking to game plans.
None of that describes the Warriros....just saying.
As For Johnson, have to agree, he blew it, inexperience. Most talented guy we got , he'll be better for it. It will happen again when Johnson is under pressure and being out thought , be good to have a Captain to over rule Johnson and Tell Jimi to pull finger and give Johnson less responsibility.....or Maybe Simon did all that and more and we just don't see it at home.
Sometimes having your most inspirational Player as the leader works well, especially Leading teams that own self responsibility well and think well for themselves / are consistent with sticking to game plans.
None of that describes the Warriros....just saying.
As For Johnson, have to agree, he blew it, inexperience. Most talented guy we got , he'll be better for it. It will happen again when Johnson is under pressure and being out thought , be good to have a Captain to over rule Johnson and Tell Jimi to pull finger and give Johnson less responsibility.....or Maybe Simon did all that and more and we just don't see it at home.
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