General Random snippets

Jesbass_old

Guest
You've mistaken what i've stated, let me show the following quotes, then speak..

You Said: You agree that we're talking about a player agent contract, and not a playing/club contract, correct?


I Said: With the intention of shopping him around elsewhere while currently contracted. Yes.

You Said: How would you back up the two assertions you made (emphasis added), particularly as they apply to Benji Marshall?

So i should've pulled you up there, as by stating, yes. I'm obviously agreeing with you that we were talking about a player agent contract.

The changing of clubs was the managers doing, whether Benji knew or not, is another story.

I then go on to state that Benji was the link between the said parties. So how do you come to the conclusion that i asserted Benji was actually the one shopping him around?[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't be surprised if I've misunderstood you - I thought you were holding what I consider an unbackable assertion, unless of course you have some inside knowledge.

I didn't think you were asserting that Benji was shopping Locke around.

I thought you were asserting that Benji convinced Locke to change management with the foreknowledge that Tauber would then shop Locke around prior to the expiration of Locke's Warriors contract.

It's a tenuous trail, hence why I was trying to clarify if that's what you were claiming, but it came from a few pieces combining as per below (emphasis added):
sebastian said:
I heard Benji was furious the Warriors knocked his team out of the comp. Wonder if hes devious enough to try to pay them back. Or whether it was just the agent using Benji to play silly bugger. Either way Benji's character seems come into question. I'm just saying, i've never heard anything positive about the Warriors, as a club, ever come out of Benji's mouth.

Above, you posited as a possibility that Benji convinced Locke to change management as a way to get back at the Warriors for losing to them in the finals. This implies that Benji did so knowing that Tauber would try to get Locke to break his Warriors contract. You didn't state this as fact, but merely posed the question.

I've seen him talk other clubs up. That wasn't his own. If he successfully managed to help Locke rangle his way out of his contract. You'd have no ill feelings about the managers plan using Benji to help sign him up to someone else? Because as a Warriors fan, i'd be mad as hell. If we had've lost Locke down to Benji's influence.

Above, you continued your train of thought, with Benji helping Locke to get out of his Warriors contract. (Unless by 'we' you were referring to George Mimis! ;))

This was the catalyst for me to double check that you knew the contract being discussed in the article was that of player management, not club.

When NU queried the above comment, saying that he didn't think Benji would have enough influence to make Locke break his Warriors contract, you said:
sebastian said:
But it states in the article that Benji did get him to sign the contract but someone stepped in. Obviously legal issues got involved and voided it. But the influence was obviously there because there was another contract signed.

The above prompted me to again seek clarification that you knew it was a player management contract that was breached - not the Warriors one (even though Tauber tried that on). I said the blame for Locke then being shopped around had to fall mostly on Tauber, and slightly on Locke. (Although I confused things by referring to Johnson instead of Locke.)

To that, you replied:
sebastian said:
Are you saying Benji would've had no idea after to speaking to Locke about signing another contract, about Locke's 2 year deal extension with the Warriors. Surely you don't believe that, i've never taken you as niave, JB.

Above, you again implied Benji's foreknowledge of Tauber trying to get Locke to break his contract. In fact, you actually referenced two difference contracts in the same sentence but didn't differentiate.

Again I sought clarification, and you pointed out that you were aware we were talking about a player management contract, and not the contract Locke signed with the Warriors. All of your comments were Benji-focused, so when you stated:
With the intention of shopping him around elsewhere while currently contracted. Yes.

...I thought you were making the assertion that Benji convinced Locke to sign with Tauber with the foreknowledge, (and, indeed, the intent, following that finals match loss), that Tauber would then try to have Locke's Warriors contract torn up, presumably for a gig at the Roosters.

And here we are. :)
 

sebastian_old

Guest
I wouldn't be surprised if I've misunderstood you - I thought you were holding what I consider an unbackable assertion, unless of course you have some inside knowledge.

I didn't think you were asserting that Benji was shopping Locke around.

I thought you were asserting that Benji convinced Locke to change management with the foreknowledge that Tauber would then shop Locke around prior to the expiration of Locke's Warriors contract.

It's a tenuous trail, hence why I was trying to clarify if that's what you were claiming, but it came from a few pieces combining as per below (emphasis added):


Above, you posited as a possibility that Benji convinced Locke to change management as a way to get back at the Warriors for losing to them in the finals. This implies that Benji did so knowing that Tauber would try to get Locke to break his Warriors contract. You didn't state this as fact, but merely posed the question.



Above, you continued your train of thought, with Benji helping Locke to get out of his Warriors contract. (Unless by 'we' you were referring to George Mimis! ;))

This was the catalyst for me to double check that you knew the contract being discussed in the article was that of player management, not club.

When NU queried the above comment, saying that he didn't think Benji would have enough influence to make Locke break his Warriors contract, you said:


The above prompted me to again seek clarification that you knew it was a player management contract that was breached - not the Warriors one (even though Tauber tried that on). I said the blame for Locke then being shopped around had to fall mostly on Tauber, and slightly on Locke. (Although I confused things by referring to Johnson instead of Locke.)

To that, you replied:


Above, you again implied Benji's foreknowledge of Tauber trying to get Locke to break his contract. In fact, you actually referenced two difference contracts in the same sentence but didn't differentiate.

Again I sought clarification, and you pointed out that you were aware we were talking about a player management contract, and not the contract Locke signed with the Warriors. All of your comments were Benji-focused, so when you stated:


...I thought you were making the assertion that Benji convinced Locke to sign with Tauber with the foreknowledge, (and, indeed, the intent, following that finals match loss), that Tauber would then try to have Locke's Warriors contract torn up, presumably for a gig at the Roosters.

And here we are. :)

My earlier possible theories, personal opinions, were just that. And i really don't believe i tried to state them as anything but, which to your credit you've acknowledged in your first quote. And whether you acknowledged along the way or not, as the discusion turned from off hand comments into factual debating. I immediately stoped using my possible theories and opinions by using the article itself as my resource. I just assumed you would accept that as the debate heated up. But you obviously took my personal, original off hand comments and melded them with my following posts. Which i tried to seperate, more and more as the debate continued. Until it was time to be blatent, and officially stake my stance. Once i gathered you were serious, about you worries of "assertions".

Again i'll say i think you've read my original post and havn't separated it, or given me credit that i would do so. Once we entered a debate of facts. If i'm being honest, thats what i believe has occured.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jesbass_old

Guest
My earlier possible theories, personal opinions, were just that. And i really don't believe i tried to state them as anything but, which to your credit you've acknowledged in your first quote. And whether you acknowledged along the way or not, as the discusion turned from off hand comments into factual debating. I immediately stoped using my possible theories and opinions by using the article itself as my resource. I just assumed you would accept that as the debate heated up. But you obviously took my personal, original off hand comments and melded them with my following posts. Which i tried to seperate, more and more as the debate continued. Until it was time to be blatent, and officially stake my stance. Once i gathered you were serious, about you worries of "assertions".

Again i'll say i think you've read my original post and havn't separated it, or given me credit that i would do so. Once we entered a debate of facts. If i'm being honest, thats what i believe has occured.

Thanks for clarifying your position around Benji's involvement in the situation.

Isn't the interweb great? We can have a debate about having a debate! ;)
 

Edifier_old

Guest
I don't mind this story, as long as we don't see a similar story stating that Money Bill Williams has convinced Kevin Locke to sign with Khodder Nasser.

Why this comment? Seems to me that Mr Nasser is doing his job for his client. As a recent article stipulates, it may polarise public sentiment and irk some but he's performing his role?

https://www.starcanterbury.co.nz/news/who-khoder-nasser/1264655/

I recall some time back when questions were asked about the Manager of the Ever Swindell twins and how he may not have been doing the very best for his clients.

I could well imagine Benji offering advice to Locke about his future financially, particularly if he is undervalued. Just hope the trappings of a young man with lots of cash dosn't derail career completely.
 

¿N. ig-mah¿_old

Guest
I'm just implying that I feel that Khodder Nasser creates and attracts a lot of negativity, and tends to cause a lot of drama and trouble.

I think that the sport would be far better off without Nasser (not actually sure if he currently has any league clients). His clients tend to be polarising characters who people either love or hate - eg. SBW, Mundine, Quade cooper.
 

PB_old

Guest
Seems to me that Mr Nasser is doing his job for his client.

Dead on.

¿N. ig-mah¿ said:
I'm just implying that I feel that Khodder Nasser creates and attracts a lot of negativity, and tends to cause a lot of drama and trouble.

I think that the sport would be far better off without Nasser (not actually sure if he currently has any league clients). His clients tend to be polarising characters who people either love or hate - eg. SBW, Mundine, Quade cooper.

Why do you find them polarising?
 

¿N. ig-mah¿_old

Guest
Dead on.



Why do you find them polarising?

I don't find them polarising. They polarise public opinion.

I personally dislike SBW. There doesn't seem to be much in-between with SBW opinions. You either love him or you hate him.
I have no problem with Mundine in boxing, but he has a very big mouth and I dislike his public persona.
I felt sorry for Quade Cooper, but many dislike him.

All three clients tend to be loved or hated by the general public.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Sounded like you made a statement IMO, but fair enough. Let me rephrase based on your answer: Why do you think they polarise public opinion?

Because they are self centred, self interested with no loyalty to anyone and will use who ever they need to get what they want.
 

surfin_old

Guest
Didn't he debut at centre? Or am I having a stroke.

Yep, he was all crazy red hair and gold teeth. Kemp also gave him the Beast nickname, because he reminded him of Kevin Iro and that was the name Shaun Edwards called Iro at Wigan.
 

¿N. ig-mah¿_old

Guest
Sounded like you made a statement IMO, but fair enough. Let me rephrase based on your answer: Why do you think they polarise public opinion?

I don't know why they cause such devisive opinions.

Take NU's post for example. It is similar to my opinion of SBW, maybe Mnudine, but not Cooper neccessarily. Others will say they are extremely talented, and that is enough for them.

There are people who see their talents as defining them, and then there are people who believe their personalities ruin them.
 

surfin_old

Guest
The thing with SBW, first and foremost, he is a sportsman and no matter whether you like him or not he is a pretty good one. Being a sportsman is a very limited career path unless you can get yourself out there and being talked about, because no matter how you look at it to quote Oscar Wilde " the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." Now whether it's SBW or David Beckham playing the game pays well but endorsements and headlines are where the real money is. Now in regards to the whole leaving the Bulldogs thing, which is when the hate started I don't believe anyone wouldn't change jobs for an outrageous pay rise. Definately not a good look but the number of ex sportsmen and women with no money and blown out knees etc probably far out number the ones cruising along with no worries. There are only so many coaching jobs and spots in front of the camera for wooden personalities prone to making ludicress comments. So I don't really agree with the way he got there but I sure can't blame him for getting there.
 

¿N. ig-mah¿_old

Guest
The thing with SBW, first and foremost, he is a sportsman and no matter whether you like him or not he is a pretty good one. Being a sportsman is a very limited career path unless you can get yourself out there and being talked about, because no matter how you look at it to quote Oscar Wilde " the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." Now whether it's SBW or David Beckham playing the game pays well but endorsements and headlines are where the real money is. Now in regards to the whole leaving the Bulldogs thing, which is when the hate started I don't believe anyone wouldn't change jobs for an outrageous pay rise. Definately not a good look but the number of ex sportsmen and women with no money and blown out knees etc probably far out number the ones cruising along with no worries. There are only so many coaching jobs and spots in front of the camera for wooden personalities prone to making ludicress comments. So I don't really agree with the way he got there but I sure can't blame him for getting there.

I don't disagree with anything you have said, except about leaving your job for more money. That isn't how it went down with SBW. He left with no prospects and waited in England while his management found him a new contract. It wasn't about him choosing to leave for another job. He forfeited his contract, hid in England and landed on his feet with a rugby contract.

It wasn't even so much about walking out on his contract. It was the fact he pinned the Bulldogs down to one of the longest contracts on record and then walked out soon after. Though I would leave my job for more moeny, I wouldn't breach my contract to look for more money.
 

PB_old

Guest
I don't know why they cause such devisive opinions.

Take NU's post for example. It is similar to my opinion of SBW, maybe Mnudine, but not Cooper neccessarily. Others will say they are extremely talented, and that is enough for them.

There are people who see their talents as defining them, and then there are people who believe their personalities ruin them.

Always good to get the perspective of someone new. Cheers for that.
 

surfin_old

Guest
I don't disagree with anything you have said, except about leaving your job for more money. That isn't how it went down with SBW. He left with no prospects and waited in England while his management found him a new contract. It wasn't about him choosing to leave for another job. He forfeited his contract, hid in England and landed on his feet with a rugby contract.

It wasn't even so much about walking out on his contract. It was the fact he pinned the Bulldogs down to one of the longest contracts on record and then walked out soon after. Though I would leave my job for more moeny, I wouldn't breach my contract to look for more money.

True, I was probably wrong saying the offer came first because your probably right, however I wouldn't be surprised if feelers had been put out by different team owners etc, or at the very least that wonderful human being that is his manager may have tested the water. Now not wanting to claim more knowledge than I have, I spoke to someone that not so much knows him but does know his immeadiate family and he was very unhappy with the way the Sydney media and people trying to make a quick buck, were going out of their way to get a rise out of him or catch him doing something "news worthy" eg the toilet incident and the likes which if you remember happened not long before he walked. The big diference now is he seems to understand how to use the media to his advantage. Planned or unplanned. For example could you name one other sportsman in NZ that could get weeks of coverage from both the media and social networks for simply changing a ripped jersy?
 

¿N. ig-mah¿_old

Guest
True, I was probably wrong saying the offer came first because your probably right, however I wouldn't be surprised if feelers had been put out by different team owners etc, or at the very least that wonderful human being that is his manager may have tested the water. Now not wanting to claim more knowledge than I have, I spoke to someone that not so much knows him but does know his immeadiate family and he was very unhappy with the way the Sydney media and people trying to make a quick buck, were going out of their way to get a rise out of him or catch him doing something "news worthy" eg the toilet incident and the likes which if you remember happened not long before he walked. The big diference now is he seems to understand how to use the media to his advantage. Planned or unplanned. For example could you name one other sportsman in NZ that could get weeks of coverage from both the media and social networks for simply changing a ripped jersy?

I think the media thing is more to do with the way the media have chosen to protray him, than his understanding of them. In league the media liked to make him a bad boy, whereas the NZ rugby media have carefully moulded his identity into a clean, green role model, because that is what most Kiwi's want from their ABs.

Nobby is having similar problems with the NZ media. The mud always seems to stick to him. Granted, it is mostly his own irresponsible, perhaps arrogant, fault, but it really does come down to how the media choose to report.

In relation to your last question, perhaps the Evers-Swindells, or a some of the silver ferns?
 

surfin_old

Guest
I think the media thing is more to do with the way the media have chosen to protray him, than his understanding of them. In league the media liked to make him a bad boy, whereas the NZ rugby media have carefully moulded his identity into a clean, green role model, because that is what most Kiwi's want from their ABs.

Nobby is having similar problems with the NZ media. The mud always seems to stick to him. Granted, it is mostly his own irresponsible, perhaps arrogant, fault, but it really does come down to how the media choose to report.

In relation to your last question, perhaps the Evers-Swindells, or a some of the silver ferns?

Thats why I said sportsMAN My list for sportsWOMEN would be quite substantial. Of course it would also be tasteful, and not in the least bit sleazy. :a
 

Beeteejay_old

Guest
This on Jason Taumalolo in the SMH this morning........

The 18-year-old second-rower is poised to reject an offer to join the Eels next year to stay with the Cowboys, the club he joined when he moved to Australia from New Zealand in 2007.

The Herald understands Taumalolo is keen to remain in Townsville with his family, but has yet to pledge his allegiance to Australia or New Zealand. Unfortunately for Blues coach Ricky Stuart, even if he were to choose Australia, Taumalolo is a Queenslander.

https://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league...promise-in-the-big-league-20120215-1t73m.html
 

miket12_old

Guest
Tate injured again

A horror run of injuries continued for Brent Tate in the North Queensland Cowboys' 36-28 NRL trial loss to Gold Coast Titans in Mackay.

Keen to make an impact after overcoming his third knee reconstruction, Tate, 29, lasted just three minutes before being taken off with a rib complaint following heavy contact while collecting a high ball on Saturday night.

Tate was taken to Mackay Hospital for X-rays and was expected to face yet another extended period on the sidelines.

"We thought it was a hip at first, but it is ribs, we don't know how long he'll be out," Cowboys coach Neil Henry told reporters.

"Thankfully it's not his knee, so we'll just see how he pulls up."
 

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
691
2big2strong_old