General Pick Your Team - Round 10 Vs Panthers

Elliot simply said it was a selection choice. I believe he wanted Carlos to get Manu the ball in space. Or perhaps he felt Benry needed to be by Tupou and was unwilling to put Konny next to Manu?[DOUBLEPOST=1368427072][/DOUBLEPOST]A lot of posters have in the past defended Mannering's style the excuse that Kiwi players may not take to kindly to that type of captaining. I say, that is exactly what we need. I want the players scared to make a mistake or let the team down.

But Hurrell didn't play at all - surely he should have replaced Tuinavarve in the Vulcans if that was the case?[DOUBLEPOST=1368433789][/DOUBLEPOST]
I'd like Sjejka to come in off the bench ahead of Godinet.

Having watched a few Vulcans games now I don't think Seijka is first grade material, definately not in place of either Johnson or Leuleui.
 
But Hurrell didn't play at all - surely he should have replaced Tuinavarve in the Vulcans if that was the case?
But Carlos was selected as 18th man. He is the player who should take the spot of anyone not put out on the park. Carlos also didn't play in the Vulcans. My guess is that Carlos was originally picked at 18 as another option for both centre and FB. Elliot made the call that Fish would play, and Konrad wouldn't. Just what he went with.

He also commented that Carlos will be a regular at centre, so he must have seen something he liked in his performance over Hurrel's. I'm not entirely sure what it was, but there was something he saw.
 
He also commented that Carlos will be a regular at centre, so he must have seen something he liked in his performance over Hurrel's. I'm not entirely sure what it was, but there was something he saw.
Yeah I noticed that comment about Carlos from Elliot , but I've also noticed it's a mental technique of his , he said as much about Hurrell and Ropati too using a different turn of phrase ( they are critical to this team ) i recon it's just something he says to Gee up his players whether they are playing the next week or not.
 
But Carlos was selected as 18th man. He is the player who should take the spot of anyone not put out on the park. Carlos also didn't play in the Vulcans. My guess is that Carlos was originally picked at 18 as another option for both centre and FB. Elliot made the call that Fish would play, and Konrad wouldn't. Just what he went with.

He also commented that Carlos will be a regular at centre, so he must have seen something he liked in his performance over Hurrel's. I'm not entirely sure what it was, but there was something he saw.

i believe he was put in there to feed Manu, which he did nicely for the first try, his positioning on the TL pass and offload from Mateo was attrocious and defensively he was a basket case after getting bounced, he made a couple of nice tackles before that but did his best to hide as soon as that happened.
It was an error not playing Konrad,IMO
 
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The thing is - if we won't play Hurrell at centre, and they keep giving time to Henry, Laumape (not that I am against Laumape playing in his preferred position), Tuimavave etc... It won't be long before Hurrell is released, is picked up by another team, and we've let another star go...
 
The thing is - if we won't play Hurrell at centre, and they keep giving time to Henry, Laumape (not that I am against Laumape playing in his preferred position), Tuimavave etc... It won't be long before Hurrell is released, is picked up by another team, and we've let another star go...

Hurrell to second row? ;)
 
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The thing is - if we won't play Hurrell at centre, and they keep giving time to Henry, Laumape (not that I am against Laumape playing in his preferred position), Tuimavave etc... It won't be long before Hurrell is released, is picked up by another team, and we've let another star go...


We need more power in the side and more direction. I think Hurrell needs to be there. We need to look at the positives of him as well as the negatives. Who would you rather mark, Hurrell or Tuimavave. His ball carry technique is flawed. Get it sorted. The drop balls are a combination of bad passes and him coming in too shallow, get it sorted. I think he has improved heaps.

I quite like the idea of Seijka on the bench, TL to dummy half replacing Friend 10 minutes before halftime, or even sub Lowrie and Friend to lock. If it works leave it in place. I would have a bench of Matagi, Lillyman, Matulino and Seijka. Laumape on Bill's wing and Henry the other centre, he has to be there somewhere.

Lets try some bloody thing
 
Hurrell to second row? ;)

hmm, on the left could we have Johnson at half, Hurrell in the second row, Laumape at centre, Manu on the wing... would be interesting to watch going forward...

Hurrell's defence in the back row could worry me a bit though... he'd have to work on his endurance... 20+ tackles per game would be rough for him I think.
 
Hurrell to second row? ;)

No...Hurrell is a centre and a bloody good one. He has so much growth left in him. We have all complained so much about trying to use 2nd rowers at centre because we lack quality centres, now we are going to use the one with the most upside at 2nd row?

No way, he needs to stay at centre and ME needs to look at what Hurrell does bring to the team and use him. Did you guys see the Raiders game v Newcastle? Blake Ferguson was the right centre and they kept going right towards him and getting him involved as much as possible - something the Warriors don't do with Hurrell - The result was Canberra thrashing Newcastle and Ferguson scoring a hattrick.

Konny is even more dangerous than Ferguson so why he doesn't get the ball more I'm not sure. He has flaws, yes, but they can be ironed out.
 
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No...Hurrell is a centre and a bloody good one. He has so much growth left in him. We have all complained so much about trying to use 2nd rowers at centre because we lack quality centres, now we are going to use the one with the most upside at 2nd row?

No way, he needs to stay at centre and ME needs to look at what Hurrell does bring to the team and use him. Did you guys see the Raiders game v Newcastle? Blake Ferguson was the right centre and they kept going right towards him and getting him involved as much as possible - something the Warriors don't do with Hurrell - The result was Canberra thrashing Newcastle and Ferguson scoring a hattrick.

Konny is even more dangerous than Ferguson so why he doesn't get the ball more I'm not sure. He has flaws, yes, but they can be ironed out.

Yeah, just taking the piss really. I agree with your assessment of Hurrell - he has massive potential, probably the biggest attacking potential of any of our outside backs.

I suspect Elliot's apparent reluctance to pick him is he sees Hurrell as one of the players who makes regular errors with and without the ball - whether the result of poorly timed passes, Tupou not working with him on D, or Hurrell's own handling and defensive issues.

My thoughts on Hurrell's use for our team, in our current situation:

-Remains in Vulcans until he has a couple of error free performances to earn his jersey back. In the meantime, I'd pick Nielsen, Henry as my centres. As soon as one of them is not available, the better performing (Vulcans form) of Hurrell and Laumape gets the nod.

and/or

-Is picked for particular situations. IE, we are up against a team with a known jersey grabber in Lewis Brown at centre. SRSLY running a combo of Manu and Hurrell with Mateo on the inside, could have us scoring at will down that edge. I'm saying this without actually researching what side Brown plays, just an example.

and/or

-When we start getting some wins we can afford the luxury of another rocks and diamonds, potential gamebreaker/gameloser such as Hurrell back in the side. A struggling team (ie us) cannot afford to pick many players of his ilk when we have solid alternatives. At this stage, the slightest error and the whole team seem to go into their shell.

...either way, there is no denying he has a massive future in our team. Just a matter of when exactly he becomes a permanent fixture. At this stage, with a couple of consecutive losses pretty much guaranteeing we cannot make the 8, I feel it's not the time.

EDIT: I really don't know what was up with the Carlos Tui pick. I can only assume Elliot figures he has the best ball-playing skills for setting Manu up, which is probably true. But he's fairly flaky on D and doesn't have the best handling either... I'd rate Laumape ahead of Tui right now.
 
I want to see Havili get a run over Pita...He is ready...We need his dummy half running...he's strong and has good speed...better than pita in defence...And put Tangi Ropati in at wing and put Bill Tupou in the vulcans...but that won't happen...or will it
 
Yeah, just taking the piss really. I agree with your assessment of Hurrell - he has massive potential, probably the biggest attacking potential of any of our outside backs.

I suspect Elliot's apparent reluctance to pick him is he sees Hurrell as one of the players who makes regular errors with and without the ball - whether the result of poorly timed passes, Tupou not working with him on D, or Hurrell's own handling and defensive issues.

My thoughts on Hurrell's use for our team, in our current situation:

-Remains in Vulcans until he has a couple of error free performances to earn his jersey back. In the meantime, I'd pick Nielsen, Henry as my centres. As soon as one of them is not available, the better performing (Vulcans form) of Hurrell and Laumape gets the nod.

and/or

-Is picked for particular situations. IE, we are up against a team with a known jersey grabber in Lewis Brown at centre. SRSLY running a combo of Manu and Hurrell with Mateo on the inside, could have us scoring at will down that edge. I'm saying this without actually researching what side Brown plays, just an example.

and/or

-When we start getting some wins we can afford the luxury of another rocks and diamonds, potential gamebreaker/gameloser such as Hurrell back in the side. A struggling team (ie us) cannot afford to pick many players of his ilk when we have solid alternatives. At this stage, the slightest error and the whole team seem to go into their shell.

...either way, there is no denying he has a massive future in our team. Just a matter of when exactly he becomes a permanent fixture. At this stage, with a couple of consecutive losses pretty much guaranteeing we cannot make the 8, I feel it's not the time.

Yeah, I have no issues with any of this. Naming Hurrell last week though and then dropping him for Carlos on game day was rat shit. We don't know what happens though within the team environment I guess.

I still don't see Henry as a long term solution at centre but he is a fantastic prospect as a wide running 2nd rower imo.

Oh and yes and Brown plays on the left so would be coming up against Hurrell should he be named this weekend (not holding my breath).
 
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Yeah, I have no issues with any of this. Naming Hurrell last week though and then dropping him for Carlos on game day was rat shit. We don't know what happens though within the team environment I guess.

I still don't see Henry as a long term solution at centre but he is a fantastic prospect as a wide running 2nd rower imo.

Oh and yes and Brown plays on the left so would be coming up against Hurrell should he be named this weekend (not holding my breath).

Yeah my thoughts on Henry too. He's upsized a bit for this season currently playing at 102kg and it shows; hopefully he can do the same next year. He could end up around the 105-108kg mark while retaining his athleticism and develop into a pretty brutal player in the Gallen-ish mold. Pretty much, I see him babysitting Hurrell's jersey through this period where we need a rock-solid flank.

There could certainly be more behind the Hurrell dropping than we are aware of. Did you see his photo of himself in a purple onesie on FB yesterday? Fuckin disturbing hahah.
 
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Yeah my thoughts on Henry too. He's upsized a bit for this season currently playing at 102kg and it shows; hopefully he can do the same next year. He could end up around the 105-108kg mark while retaining his athleticism and develop into a pretty brutal player in the Gallen-ish mold. Pretty much, I see him babysitting Hurrell's jersey through this period where we need a rock-solid flank.

There could certainly be more behind the Hurrell dropping than we are aware of. Did you see his photo of himself in a purple onesie on FB yesterday? Fuckin disturbing hahah.

Nah man I didnt see it. He looked bad enough in the photo of him in that farking blues uniform with the flag sticking out of his pants though lol.
 
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It seems like the Warriors are so scared of losing, and capitualting in the second half, that it is destined to happen week in and week out.

I reckon the only way the Warriors get out of this, is to put 40 points on someone. To do that Konrad Hurrell needs to be in the side, we have tried tackling our way to victory, its time to 2002 our way to victory. I don't necessarily think that this is going to make us more likely to win any given game, but i think its more likely to solve the confidence issues. The team were too cocky after 2011, thinking 'look at us in the NRL GF and half the team is only 21'. The last 18 months has been a massive reality check, and they are not handling it well.
 
It seems like the Warriors are so scared of losing, and capitualting in the second half, that it is destined to happen week in and week out.

I reckon the only way the Warriors get out of this, is to put 40 points on someone. To do that Konrad Hurrell needs to be in the side, we have tried tackling our way to victory, its time to 2002 our way to victory. I don't necessarily think that this is going to make us more likely to win any given game, but i think its more likely to solve the confidence issues. The team were too cocky after 2011, thinking 'look at us in the NRL GF and half the team is only 21'. The last 18 months has been a massive reality check, and they are not handling it well.
Styles make fights as they say in boxing.
I like the 2002 offensive forward pack , secound phase support play power game ( Rather pay to watch that than the tackle-athons ).

Absolutely it inspires confidence.

It's our natural game too. Ivan Cleary I suspect after seeing the Line speed of the ultra fit Roosters in that years grand final decided to re mold the NZ game along those lines.
He certainly did everything he could to fill the team with tacklers. ...to the point where he had to import secound phase creative players from paramata.

Interesting really , Cleary had some talented offloaders under his nose ( Sam Rapira / Ben Mutts for example ) but it seems he was driven to discourage the natives from those practices ( piss take )
 
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I want to see Havili get a run over Pita...He is ready...We need his dummy half running...he's strong and has good speed...better than pita in defence...And put Tangi Ropati in at wing and put Bill Tupou in the vulcans...but that won't happen...or will it

No to Havili, far too ball greedy for the structure M.E is trying to instill and needs to lift defensive work rate- A bench Hooker doesn't have to make lots of tackles, but they should be consistent with how many tackles Friend or any other Hooker makes per minute.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
Before the Panthers had beaten the Storm I thought that, even if Vatuvei had a below-average game, we could still pull of win. If, however, Vatuvei has a shit game (something we all know he's capable of) the team might lose for it. After their win against Melbourne I'm not too sure if we would win without Vatuvei at his best. So at this stage I think I actually would like Vatuvei at wing over Laumape...

Welcome to the Dark Side!

but in all seriousness having watched Laumape as winger and as a centre I think he is wasted on the wing. I think his abilities seem better, for want of another word, in that position and given that for this team to succeed every player needs to be playing at his best, then putting the best player in at their best position first, seems to me the way to go. I hope to see a combo of Laumape and Fish on the right wing soon and a return of Neilson for a left wing combo with Manu. Whilst Benry has been good defensively on the right he is closing down the attack and having him and Mannering side by side seems redundant to me.
 
Problem with 2002 style vs 2013 style... we do not have the team to pull it off.

Look in awe at our '02 Grand Final team:

1 Ivan Cleary (in his prime, ace goal kick, defensive genius) - Locke is a kid.
2 Justin Murphy (tradesman with speed, well-utilised)
3 John Carlaw (tradesman who will never let you down)
4 Clinton Toopi (in his prime, electric attacker, aggressive though dodgy defender) - Do we even have two centres today!?
5 Francis Meli (in his prime, smashes everyone, scores 5-try hauls)
6 Motu Tony (youngster but good compliment to Jones) - Leuluai probably better.
7 Stacey Jones (GOD in his prime, scored the best solo GF try ever) - Johnson is a kid.
8 Jerry Seu Seu (in his prime, aggressive hard running prop) - Rapira in a couple of years.
9 PJ Marsh (our best ever hooker by a long shot) - Friend looks boring by comparison.
10 Mark Tookey (big, bends the line) - Packer on a good day.
11 Ali Lauiti'iti (offload king, big hitter) - Mateo wishes he was this guy.
12 Awen Guttenbeil (Big angry hard running hard hitting) - Mannering the PG version.
13 Kevin Campion (our best ever lock) - Lowrie wishes he was this guy.

14 Lance Hohaia (super sub at his young, electric best) - Godinet not even close.
15 Logan Swann (at his best again, big, hard running offloader) - Lillyman's a prop.
16 Wairangi Koopu (mobile, ran great lines, defensive workhorse) - Taylor a smaller, weaker version.
17 Richard Villasanti (at his best, big, angry prop who can offload) - Matulino if he took crack would be this.

That team had everything we lack, and still couldn't win the damn comp.
 
On a positive note, sorry, a trick I learnt coaching when dealing with poor performance. Make the first thing you say positive hard sometimes but important. The results are bad but some players are stepping up
Fisiahi, revelation, has secured starting spot IMO, FB or wing
Locke, hopefully back soon but returning from injury was sound
Vatuvei, best he has looked for ages
Tupou, have to admit he has generally gone well this year
Laumape, huge potential, will still play a big part this year
Hurrell, has improved, a way to go but will still play a big part like Laumape
Tuimavave, went better than I expected but still a step below as a centre IMO
Johnstone, getting better, playing well generally, some direction issues but still a pass mark
Henry, very good player, will get bigger and will make a very good second rower (and Captain)
Mannering, when he is angry

Our second rowers are not huge but that doesn't stop the Manly guys, especially that very unlikeable man Whatmough. Every run has to count, games are won and lost in the forwards. They have to fight to get up and play the ball, heres some advice, if you have the ball you can pretty well do what you want. If they are holding you down thrash around, make it hurt to hold you down. The really good teams are going the same speed in the 80th as the 1st minute.

We have a 4 prop rotation, I think our props, as a unit and individually can do a lot more. Rest when you are interchanged. The secret to success on the field is hard work, that is what is needed.
 
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