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Mr Frank White

Warriors 1st Grader
May 19, 2012
3,865
Fyi i never said Chanel Harris-Tavita is better than walsh at organising and running....
I said Chanel Harris-Tavita is better than nikorima at those things and thus would be a better pairing in the halves with walsh.
Do you guys really not understand what i am saying or are you trolling me?

Or am i to stupid to type sense!?

I said, nikorima has a similar game to walsh but walsh is obviously better so imo you want a organising half to pair with walsh and Chanel Harris-Tavita would be better at it than nikorima.
Your writing is a bit confusing..
 
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Billy Teets James

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Not as a half he didn't...

He had zero try assists and Walsh had 1.. And was only on the field for like ten mins. Same amount of tackle busts.

Again, I like Chanel Harris-Tavita. Not sure half is his best position for the TEAM right now.
I'm not sure you can say one is better than the other. Kodi is fast, Way more experienced than Chanel. An alright kicking game.
Drifts in & out of games. Never takes control when we are under pressure.

Chanel Harris-Tavita has a average kicking game. Takes the wrong options sometimes. And is still young. One of the better defensive halves in the comp. Always in support of his ballrunners. And even tho his form is off keeps trying the whole game.

Both have their good & bad points.
Chanel has youth on his side & still a lot of growing to do.

If we had a ball playing/tactical kicking Hooker we could play Chanel in the halves next to Walsh.

The Flash, Xfactor, Skillful Walsh.
A hooker who can take the pressure off of him and help guide the team around the park. And assist with general play duties.
Chanel Harris-Tavita, A defensive rock. Cover defender, Hole hitting, Supporting his forwards looking for offloads guy. Who can also ball play and kick when the other 2 are not in position to do so. May not be the best kicker Lol. But I'm sure he's working on it.

Kodi & walsh doesn't work for me. Both defensive liabilities.

The right combinations are needed for the type of halves we have. I can see Chanel Harris-Tavita fitting in there somewhere Lol.

I feel you tho, At present. We do need Kodi's attacking edge.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,319
Would love for someone to explain how you know how good Walsh's organising skills are?

Because the only game he started in the halves was against the Cowboys, and Kodi played on the ball that game as the organising half.

The same role Chanel Harris-Tavita played last game, and continued to play when Walsh came on against Manly.
Although this idea of organisation is somewhat subjective, you know what it looks like and what it does not when you see it.

Because of our history, Warriors fans have a lot of experience in identifying a lack of organisation.

Consider our worst halves pairings.

The Warriors often times look like they have no idea what they are doing when that crucial fifth tackle moment comes. The tackle that either adds to all the foundation work of your runners of ruins it.

Probably the most diagnostic single point in our organisation is the kick, it is either hurried, or predictable or inaccurate.

Walsh solves that issue.

We end our sets looking like we had some idea of where that kick was coming from, where it was going, and that our chase has a realistic chance of containing the receiver. In real terms these illusions of a prepared Warriors kick chase and deliberate defensive reset, are predicated by the players realising these are kicks they can chase in the first place.

In the lead up to that kick, poor passing /timing/ combination of both, will erode the final play, the kick.

But before you even go there, lets acknowledge having one mediocre kicker, and one poor kicker means, teams know you are either going to make a piss poor kick or go to the same guy.

Walsh gives them options on the fifth with just his boot.

Before Walsh came in, there was a distinct lack of forwards in motion to set up a platform to get to that kick, so without having him mic'd up one can fairly assume he has that ability to get people around him moving. He removes the horrible spectre of some inappropriate forward getting the ball and dying with it too.

He can do things like pass a ball so quickly and so cleanly that he has extra time, yes he plays eyes up football, and yes he has some instinctive elements, but unlike Shaun Johnson, it is probably easier for his team mates to read where he is going with his use of his movement, and therefore he is adding some fluid Try assists and creating line breaks in a structured way relative to just taking the line on and gunning it like Kodi, Shaun Johnson, Lance Hohaia et al.

You don't see him skipping around in circles much, people call it directness, but I would add there is a deliberateness to it as well.

So in a nut shell, without a half that has a beautiful passing game, the Warriors will look clunky, and without a half with an effective kicking game, they will look frenetic and back peddling.

Without an effective halves paring the Walsh experiment will fail. Thankfully the first time round Walsh Kodi works, and works bloody well.

Lets see what Walsh Chanel Harris-Tavita looks like too....I presume Brown must be sorely tempted this year to play around with his pieces and see what he really has on his hands.

None of what I described in this post is Cooper Cronk material, but for the Warriors, having a fluid attack and lots of dynamic ball movement cannot be a thing, a proven element, without looking at the player that introduced it to the team with their arrival and seeing some organisation.

I said he is no Cooper Cronk.

Well he is 18 and he plays like a young Jonathan Thurston. He is actually talented enough, if taught right, if surrounded by the right players, if taught to tackle, to make his own name in the NRL.
 

Mr Frank White

Warriors 1st Grader
May 19, 2012
3,865
I'm not sure you can say one is better than the other. Kodi is fast, Way more experienced than Chanel. An alright kicking game.
Drifts in & out of games. Never takes control when we are under pressure.

Chanel Harris-Tavita has a average kicking game. Takes the wrong options sometimes. And is still young. One of the better defensive halves in the comp. Always in support of his ballrunners. And even tho his form is off keeps trying the whole game.

Both have their good & bad points.
Chanel has youth on his side & still a lot of growing to do.

If we had a ball playing/tactical kicking Hooker we could play Chanel in the halves next to Walsh.

The Flash, Xfactor, Skillful Walsh.
A hooker who can take the pressure off of him and help guide the team around the park. And assist with general play duties.
Chanel Harris-Tavita, A defensive rock. Cover defender, Hole hitting, Supporting his forwards looking for offloads guy. Who can also ball play and kick when the other 2 are not in position to do so. May not be the best kicker Lol. But I'm sure he's working on it.

Kodi & walsh doesn't work for me. Both defensive liabilities.

The right combinations are needed for the type of halves we have. I can see Chanel Harris-Tavita fitting in there somewhere Lol.

I feel you tho, At present. We do need Kodi's attacking edge.
Thanks mate I agree with 90% of the analysis. Maybe we differ slightly on the finally assessment.

Bit hard to give nuanced opinions on here without being labelled a fanboy or a hater 🤔🤔
 

wizards rage

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 18, 2016
5,064
Tauranga
Mix those factors with Kodi being here next year and our lack of a hooker and the best outcome for the TEAM for this YEAR could be
6. Walsh
7. Kodi
14. Chanel Harris-Tavita
Our best combination. Walsh and Kodi play uptempo together and will blow teams away with speed. Almost Storm like where opportunities open up around them with a critical mass of threats. They make Roger Tuivasa-Sheck better because they draw defenders away from him and open gaps for the ball runners. Chanel Harris-Tavita does none of that.

Problem is, if Chanel Harris-Tavita is our first choice half next year, we are mucking up his development with a third year as an extra. Chanel Harris-Tavita is also not an impact player and with Jazz and/ or Sironen we have the balance thrown out on the bench. Yes, he can cover Egan but we basically waste a bench spot that would be better used strengthening the forwards with a high impact player.

Tough calls to be made...
 

Billyspleen75

1st Grade Fringe
May 8, 2012
699
Silverdale
Right on Jamayne Tounua-Brown, he’s averaging a poultry 50 meters a game this season on top of his other stats which are also underwhelming. Time for a spell in QCUP I think.

Yea, he's been chickenshit lately. If he's not careful he'll fall down the pecking order pretty fast, we do have about 6 worthy props, so luckily we aren't putting all of our eggs in one basket.
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
4,902
New Plymouth
Been thinking about how the new rule changes have sped up the game. Seems to me that pace and having a big motor are the answers.

Don't beat me up here but defence may just not be the dictum it was once was and using the Bluey theory, scoring more points than the opposition is the answer. Some of these scorelines are saying something about where the game is heading. Our last game was an absolute disaster in defence but we only lost by 6 and could have made golden point if one pass had been a tad sharper. Getting the momentum and using that pace will produce heaps of points.

I think we need to start thinking outside the box and get creative with the squad we have. Some talent in there.

So, Walsh plays, Chanel Harris-Tavita on the bench 14. Aitkin in and Pompey to the wing. Like to see The Murch gets a run for Curran this week. Think he needs a weeks to rest up and relax. Ben Murdoch-Masila back so that's a plus. Maybe Katoa in for JFB.
 

Mr Frank White

Warriors 1st Grader
May 19, 2012
3,865
Our best combination. Walsh and Kodi play uptempo together and will blow teams away with speed. Almost Storm like where opportunities open up around them with a critical mass of threats. They make Roger Tuivasa-Sheck better because they draw defenders away from him and open gaps for the ball runners. Chanel Harris-Tavita does none of that.

Problem is, if Chanel Harris-Tavita is our first choice half next year, we are mucking up his development with a third year as an extra. Chanel Harris-Tavita is also not an impact player and with Jazz and/ or Sironen we have the balance thrown out on the bench. Yes, he can cover Egan but we basically waste a bench spot that would be better used strengthening the forwards with a high impact player.

Tough calls to be made...
Drop Egan and play Chanel Harris-Tavita at hooker?
 

mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
4,113
Auckland
Yea, he's been chickenshit lately. If he's not careful he'll fall down the pecking order pretty fast, we do have about 6 worthy props, so luckily we aren't putting all of our eggs in one basket.
Looks like the poor old Eels might be down a few players. Could Jamayne Tounua-Brown play for them? :p
 

wizards rage

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 18, 2016
5,064
Tauranga
Drop Egan and play Chanel Harris-Tavita at hooker?
Not for 80. And we would potentially be looking at the rest of the season, not just a game or 2. Hooker is quite specialised with the vision and different structure involved. Different skill set, speed and a sharp pass. It required a different sort of fitness as well.

I don’t know enough about Chanel Harris-Tavita’s skills to know if he could play there more than a full in role?
 
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Spudwebb

U20's Player
May 10, 2021
42
Oh you're a stats guy....they just don't tell the story. E.G Evans has good metres but he is an absolute flop in the tackle and is borderline penalty every time
Actually he's Not a flop. He is slowing the Ruck down to give the defence an opportunity to set up for the Next play. If u watch any of the top 4 teams, they have 3 blokes in, to slow the ruck down. The Best at it now is Panthers...
 

Louim8

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 19, 2020
229
Been thinking about how the new rule changes have sped up the game. Seems to me that pace and having a big motor are the answers.

Don't beat me up here but defence may just not be the dictum it was once was and using the Bluey theory, scoring more points than the opposition is the answer. Some of these scorelines are saying something about where the game is heading. Our last game was an absolute disaster in defence but we only lost by 6 and could have made golden point if one pass had been a tad sharper. Getting the momentum and using that pace will produce heaps of points.

I think we need to start thinking outside the box and get creative with the squad we have. Some talent in there.

So, Walsh plays, Chanel Harris-Tavita on the bench 14. Aitkin in and Pompey to the wing. Like to see The Murch gets a run for Curran this week. Think he needs a weeks to rest up and relax. Ben Murdoch-Masila back so that's a plus. Maybe Katoa in for JFB.
I get you there, but the flip side of that thinking is if we defended better we could have won by 20.

I think once everybody is healthy and the team is selected properly, we will have a decent defense and a very potent attack.
 
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6Again

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 1, 2020
1,035
Actually he's Not a flop. He is slowing the Ruck down to give the defence an opportunity to set up for the Next play. If u watch any of the top 4 teams, they have 3 blokes in, to slow the ruck down. The Best at it now is Panthers...
Agreed, unfortunately there‘s a marked difference between our tackle method and these sides.

With middles, the way I see it is these coaches are looking for the first man in to wrap the ball and stall momentum second man in to hold him up and drive him back if possible, third man on the legs before the takedown. On his back if possible.

Okay great, sounds like nothing new but it’s done consistently one after the other holding off on the legs tackle until just before the ref calls held. Ultimately gaining additional seconds and avoiding the need to prolong the hold down of the tackled player and drawing six again calls. Their basically wrapping the ball and holding the player up longer, It’s smart, even the way the ball is wrapped allowing for the steal. Subtle differences from the old rules, Storm middles are very good at it.

We‘re often going in together all at once unable to wrap the ball or maneuver the player into a dominant tackle position etc etc. We could up skill a lot in this area and the knock-on effect would improve our game markedly.
 

Stalefish540

.
Contributor
May 13, 2017
2,811
Mt. Smart
Although this idea of organisation is somewhat subjective, you know what it looks like and what it does not when you see it.

Because of our history, Warriors fans have a lot of experience in identifying a lack of organisation.

Consider our worst halves pairings.

The Warriors often times look like they have no idea what they are doing when that crucial fifth tackle moment comes. The tackle that either adds to all the foundation work of your runners of ruins it.

Probably the most diagnostic single point in our organisation is the kick, it is either hurried, or predictable or inaccurate.

Walsh solves that issue.

We end our sets looking like we had some idea of where that kick was coming from, where it was going, and that our chase has a realistic chance of containing the receiver. In real terms these illusions of a prepared Warriors kick chase and deliberate defensive reset, are predicated by the players realising these are kicks they can chase in the first place.

In the lead up to that kick, poor passing /timing/ combination of both, will erode the final play, the kick.

But before you even go there, lets acknowledge having one mediocre kicker, and one poor kicker means, teams know you are either going to make a piss poor kick or go to the same guy.

Walsh gives them options on the fifth with just his boot.

Before Walsh came in, there was a distinct lack of forwards in motion to set up a platform to get to that kick, so without having him mic'd up one can fairly assume he has that ability to get people around him moving. He removes the horrible spectre of some inappropriate forward getting the ball and dying with it too.

He can do things like pass a ball so quickly and so cleanly that he has extra time, yes he plays eyes up football, and yes he has some instinctive elements, but unlike Shaun Johnson, it is probably easier for his team mates to read where he is going with his use of his movement, and therefore he is adding some fluid Try assists and creating line breaks in a structured way relative to just taking the line on and gunning it like Kodi, Shaun Johnson, Lance Hohaia et al.

You don't see him skipping around in circles much, people call it directness, but I would add there is a deliberateness to it as well.

So in a nut shell, without a half that has a beautiful passing game, the Warriors will look clunky, and without a half with an effective kicking game, they will look frenetic and back peddling.

Without an effective halves paring the Walsh experiment will fail. Thankfully the first time round Walsh Kodi works, and works bloody well.

Lets see what Walsh Chanel Harris-Tavita looks like too....I presume Brown must be sorely tempted this year to play around with his pieces and see what he really has on his hands.

None of what I described in this post is Cooper Cronk material, but for the Warriors, having a fluid attack and lots of dynamic ball movement cannot be a thing, a proven element, without looking at the player that introduced it to the team with their arrival and seeing some organisation.

I said he is no Cooper Cronk.

Well he is 18 and he plays like a young Jonathan Thurston. He is actually talented enough, if taught right, if surrounded by the right players, if taught to tackle, to make his own name in the NRL.
I understand what you're saying, and i'm not knocking Walsh in the slightest. What i'm trying to say is he had nothing to do with how those sets were directed in both the games.

The work an organising half does for the most part goes unnoticed, if they are playing on the ball as Brown wants his 7 to. That's why a lot of the work Kodi vs Cows, and Chanel Harris-Tavita vs Manly did goes unnoticed.

When the player is tackled from a turnover, an on the ball 7's job is to drive the set and direct play to get to a certain point on the field for a kick most of the time. The 6 takes a backward seat and doesn't tend to play a big part in the set, unless he sees something and overcalls the 7.

Walsh is not playing as an organising half. He is getting the ball on the 5th usually to kick, or run if he sees something. Or he's getting the ball as 2nd reciever in the red zone off the 7.

Could he play that role? Sure but it would be a big ask for a rookie, and he's better off playing the role he did in the Cows game currently. It allows him to play his natural game better.

Long story short, he's not organising shit currently and he doesn't need to it's not his job.
 
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