Pick Your Team Pick Your Team 2018 Rnd 12 - Warriors vs Rabbitohs

[jonno]

and I still disagree.

He brought in Hiku and Beale to play for our club, to try and make definitive statements about where he was planning to play them is foolish as you already pointed out, you don't actually know.

for all we know he brought Hiku in to play wing and Beale to be the supersub off the bench just like at the sharks.

For all we know Beale was promised he'd be playing prop.

But surely you have to take into account the balance of probability and use some semblance of logic when formulating an argument. Why would Beale leave the Sharks, who were a top for team at the time, and move countries to play for the serially under-performing Warriors, if not for a pay rise and a promotion from back line utility to first choice center?

And after watching the absolute shit show that was Kata and Ken down the left last year, it's pretty safe to say this is what Kearney was thinking at the time also.



I'm expecting crickets from you, but I could be wrong.

 

[Danpatmac]

For all we know Beale was promised he'd be playing prop.

But surely you have to take into account the balance of probability and use some semblance of logic when formulating an argument. Why would Beale leave the Sharks, who were a top for team at the time, and move countries to play for the serially under-performing Warriors, if not for a pay rise and a promotion from back line utility to first choice center?

And after watching the absolute shit show that was Kata and Ken down the left last year, it's pretty safe to say this is what Kearney was thinking at the time also.



I'm expecting crickets from you, but I could be wrong.

1. For all we know Beale was promised he'd be playing prop.
You are the one who made a definitive statement about what Kearney was thinking. I'm the one who called bullshit.

2. But surely you have to take into account the balance of probability and use some semblance of logic when formulating an argument
Have you ever read your own posts bro?
Logic suggests it is stupid to assume what someone you have never met thinks. It also suggests you don't change a winning formula once you have found one for the first time in years.

3. Why would Beale leave the Sharks, who were a top for team at the time, and move countries to play for the serially under-performing Warriors, if not for a pay rise and a promotion from back line utility to first choice center?
Beale was off contract and we offered him a desirable contract, that is why he left the Sharks. Anything else is assumption on your part.

4. And after watching the absolute shit show that was Kata and Ken down the left last year, it's pretty safe to say this is what Kearney was thinking at the time also.
There you go again... tell me what is his favourite movie? Favourite restaurant?

5. I'm expecting crickets from you, but I could be wrong.
Yes you very well could be.

 

[YeahNah 4020]

Get the Defence tight and battle ready as our true test are the teams we ambushed at the start of the season and we have to go again as this time they be ready for us.

Roosters case in point.

Bunnies will be feeling confident but we can knock that out of them with tight defenders and if successful we shake em them we bake em.

Beale in for Kata is my pick
Return of Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Shaun Johnson (hopes)
Need a recharge upfront to rumble

This win is very much needed

 

[Sup42]

The supersub off the bench idea is fanciful in my opinion because it suits what fans would like to see, rather than the more likely scenario that at a club with problematic Center issues.....someone as experienced as Beale is intended for your starting squad.

For starters....the Sharks had two perfectly functional Centers keeping Beale out of the starting spot....we did not (2017 the form of our Centers was unreliable).

Ask yourselves this, what NRL club recruits a Center utility to come sit on the bench ?...when have the Warriors ever done it....recruit a back specifically for the bench that is not a hooker/half?

Factor in that Hiku was in nowhereville ESL struggle street, he has since taken his opportunity here...things have worked out nicely for him.

Hiku was a gamble...there is no way he came here with an attractive CV on recent form.

I like Hiku....and I respect Veteran NZ internationals...as does our coach...so therefore Hiku gets a spot.. there is no way on earth that Beale is not here to play starter...you just watch people all will be revealed shortly.

 

[jonno]

1. For all we know Beale was promised he'd be playing prop.
You are the one who made a definitive statement about what Kearney was thinking. I'm the one who called bullshit.

It was an opinion. And I've backed it up with some pretty substantial evidence.

But I guess that's not the standard this forum is held to.

 

[Danpatmac]

The supersub off the bench idea is fanciful in my opinion because it suits what fans would like to see, rather than the more likely scenario that at a club with problematic Center issues.....someone as experienced as Beale is intended for your starting squad.

For starters....the Sharks had two perfectly functional Centers keeping Beale out of the starting spot....we did not (2017 the form of our Centers was unreliable).

Ask yourselves this, what NRL club recruits a Center utility to come sit on the bench ?...when have the Warriors ever done it....recruit a back specifically for the bench that is not a hooker/half?

Factor in that Hiku was in nowhereville ESL struggle street, he has since taken his opportunity here...things have worked out nicely for him.

Hiku was a gamble...there is no way he came here with an attractive CV on recent form.

I like Hiku....and I respect Veteran NZ internationals...as does our coach...so there is no way on earth that Beale is not here to play starter...you just watch people all will be known shortly.

We don't know what promises were made or plans were in mind, we are all assuming we know what the club wanted from it's new recruits.
But in the end, the 'plans' don't matter because we started this year with the best AVAILABLE centres.
They have helped us to our best start in a million years. They deserve loyalty.
I think that this is all besides the point.

Hiku has taken his opportunity, as has Kata.
To drop them now undervalues their contribution to an 8 from 11 record.

 

[Danpatmac]

It was an opinion. And I've backed it up with some pretty substantial evidence.

But I guess that's not the standard this forum is held to.

Sorry bro, you said that Beale was signed to play left centre.
The only evidence you have provided is more opinion and assumption.

 

[jonno]

Sorry bro, you said that Beale was signed to play left centre.
The only evidence you have provided is more opinion and assumption.

And you said Hiku was the reason we're 3rd on the table.

I think mine is a lot closer to the truth than yours.

 

[Sup42]

We don't know what promises were made or plans were in mind, we are all assuming we know what the club wanted from it's new recruits.
But in the end, the 'plans' don't matter because we started this year with the best AVAILABLE centres.
They have helped us to our best start in a million years. They deserve loyalty.
I think that this is all besides the point.

Hiku has taken his opportunity, as has Kata.
To drop them now undervalues their contribution to an 8 from 11 record.

These arguments can get a bit circular....fair point regarding speculation being just that...however for the very reason you say the incumbents shouldn't be dropped / swapped....if one is replaced by Beale then that is by some planning strategy rather than evidence based comparisons between Beale and the incumbents.

The big reveale is coming either way.

 

[Danpatmac]

And you said Hiku was the reason we're 3rd on the table.

I think mine is a lot closer to the truth than yours.

Of course you do, you even support your opinion with evidence from, your opinion.

I never said Hiku was the reason for us being 3rd. Wrong again.
I have said he was a contributor to this teams successful record. Do you dispute that?
I have said he has set up plenty of tries for his winger, do you dispute that?
Many commentators have suggested our right edge is one of the most potent in the NRL.

I will tell you this secret.

The guy who has played 11 games has definitely made more of a contribution than the guy who has played 1.

 

[francis faafua]

assuming everyone is fit...Scheck..Fusitua..Hiku..Beale..Maumalo..Green..Johnson..Gavet..Luke..Paasi..Harris..Papalii..Blair...INTERCHANGE...Tevaga..Afoa..Mannering..Sao...we're gonna need Sao against that souths pack...if SK does'nt use him i'd take a gamble & put Kata on the bench...still dont think its too late to give Kata some time @ training having a run as hooker...i know we have other options,but having Kata on the bench for cover in the backs & forwards will be beneficial i believe....if we lose a forward in a game,we could always push Maumalo in there...especially now that Beale is fit...might solve a few headaches....just thought id throw that out there..

 

[jonno]

Of course you do, you even support your opinion with evidence from, your opinion.

I never said Hiku was the reason for us being 3rd. Wrong again.
I have said he was a contributor to this teams successful record. Do you dispute that?
I have said he has set up plenty of tries for his winger, do you dispute that?
Many commentators have suggested our right edge is one of the most potent in the NRL.

I will tell you this secret.

The guy who has played 11 games has definitely made more of a contribution than the guy who has played 1.

"But, Hiku has taken his chance and as a result we have ended up in the top 3... and not a soul predicted that." - Danpatmac 2018

That's a pretty concrete statement right there about Hiku being the reason we're top 3.

My comment in response was a little more ambiguous.

"I think Beale is a certainty at left center, seeing as that's why he was recruited in the first place." - Jonno 2018

It could mean we recurred him to play first grade, and not necessarily left center, but given the current circumstances, he's a dead cert for that left center spot.

Where as you said, as a result of Hiku taking his chances we're 3rd. Not much wiggle room for ya there my good buddy.

When I think the more realistic opinion is that it's Harrirs, Blair, Pulu, Afoa etc that we're third, more than just Hiku all by himself...

Case closed.

 

[matiunz]

He's a better defender than Kata and Hiku. He can score in traffic and knows how to pass the ball.

Basically he doesn't need any development to play that position. I think we need to be picking players on their actual merits today, and not on their potential merits in the future. We need to end Owen Glens legacy of our club becoming something way more amazing than is actually possible, and just focus on what our club currently is IMO.

In 2 first grade starting games this season he’s had one pretty good and one shocker.
I think the Dragons game he played above himself (Lino style) and have a bit of false hope to his actual ability. His short stints off the bench have been a bit Gumby and he hasn’t set the world on fire.
IMO this is how I believe the club sees its centers
Beale- signed specifically to solve a problem.
Kata- local player come through systems but still a work in progress
Hiku- unexpected signing but useful compared to what we currently had.
Ayshford- reliable stop gap option that’s coming to the end of its use.
Gelling- basically a see what happens option useful for depth

 

[jonno]

In 2 first grade starting games this season he’s had one pretty good and one shocker.
I think the Dragons game he played above himself (Lino style) and have a bit of false hope to his actual ability. His short stints off the bench have been a bit Gumby and he hasn’t set the world on fire.
IMO this is how I believe the club sees its centers
Beale- signed specifically to solve a problem.
Kata- local player come through systems but still a work in progress
Hiku- unexpected signing but useful compared to what we currently had.
Ayshford- reliable stop gap option that’s coming to the end of its use.
Gelling- basically a see what happens option useful for depth

I've got them looking like this.

Beale
Gelling - man of the people!!
Hiku
Ayshford
Kata.

Kata is that bad at his job IMO. Great for hit ups and spot tackles, but he's not a center. Best case is a bench utility/impact role.

 

[Danpatmac]

"But, Hiku has taken his chance and as a result we have ended up in the top 3... and not a soul predicted that." - Danpatmac 2018

That's a pretty concrete statement right there about Hiku being the reason we're top 3.

My comment in response was a little more ambiguous.

"I think Beale is a certainty at left center, seeing as that's why he was recruited in the first place." - Jonno 2018

It could mean we recurred him to play first grade, and not necessarily left center, but given the current circumstances, he's a dead cert for that left center spot.

Where as you said, as a result of Hiku taking his chances we're 3rd. Not much wiggle room for ya there my good buddy.

When I think the more realistic opinion is that it's Harrirs, Blair, Pulu, Afoa etc that we're third, more than just Hiku all by himself...

Case closed.

Case closed my arse.
Only an idiot would read my ENTIRE post as if I was suggesting Hiku was the sole reason we were third.
Congratulations.

You however clearly state he was a CERTAINTY for left centre. A certainty.
So you were/are certain... based on nothing but your own opinion.
You clearly state 'that is why he was recruited in the first place' but as of yet we have not seen one iota of evidence of this from the club, so you are assuming, once again.

you are exhausting.

Just admit.

You THINK these things, you do not KNOW these things.

 

[matiunz]

Gelling - man of the people!!

Last people’s champ was Jono Wright.... let that sink in

 

[Lets Gone]

I think Beale is a certainty at left center, seeing as that's why he was recruited in the first place.

Kearney is very stubborn about his decisions. He hired Beale to replace Kata, and that's exactly what will happen now that Beale is fit.

I can see Kata leaving the club to look for greener pastures somewhere else. He'd be a superstar in Super League with his tries from dummy half.

'
Fully agree

Beale numbers last year were fairly impressive as per
https://www.totalfootystats.com.au/...arks/gerard-beale&disp_year=2017#.WwD2MNOFPVo

They are also fairly consistent with Kata's stats. Defensively, Kata is probably the better spot tackler but reading the defensive line, putting Ken in space and dummy half runs Beale is way in front.

Factoring in versatility, best position first, last position worst case scenario. However have played in that position in their career.

1. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck - Fullback, wing
2. Fusitua - Wing, Fullback, centre
3. Hiku - Centre, half (very important trait mid game imo), fullback, wing
4. Beale - Centre, Wing
5. Ken - Wing

Kata - Centre and never played wing from my memory and is not tall enough for the high ball kicks

Hiku's half cover is the least disruptive if a half goes down and has the x factor. We have seen hiku move to the half already this season when Shaun Johnson or Lino went down.

And it hurts to say it but Ken deserves his spot, those runs from the scrums against the Eels were sick, really got us going forward and it a fairly simple play to set up from a restart.

 

[matiunz]

And it hurts to say it but Ken deserves his spot, those runs from the scrums against the Eels were sick, really got us going forward and it a fairly simple play to set up from a restart.

I didn’t want Ken near the team start of season but gotta admit he’s come leaps and bounds this year and proved his doubters wrong- it’s his spot to lose now

 

[AlexM]

Kearney looked at the squad last year and probably said something like ' wtf these forwards who are ' vets' are shit , can't bend the line and provide bad examples / no leadership - insert Blair Tohu Harris and Pulu. We need a controlling half to take pressure of Shaun Johnson - insert green.
Wow this ayshford guy is like 30 and is average as Fuck. No depth to replace him. Insert Beale oh and hiku and gelling are just bargains.
Oh shit beales injured ok hiku there you go.
In summary - Aysh was replaced. It's up to form between hiku and Beale.
I see hiku as our 14/17. As we have jazz plus 2 more forwards on the bench, Adam and SImon can pump out 60 each and jazz is good for 40-50. Paasi , Afoa and Gavet are the ones who need managing on the bench effectively for impact.

 

[Rick O'Shay]

Case closed my arse.
Only an idiot would read my ENTIRE post as if I was suggesting Hiku was the sole reason we were third.
Congratulations.

You however clearly state he was a CERTAINTY for left centre. A certainty.
So you were/are certain... based on nothing but your own opinion.
You clearly state 'that is why he was recruited in the first place' but as of yet we have not seen one iota of evidence of this from the club, so you are assuming, once again.

you are exhausting.

Just admit.

You THINK these things, you do not KNOW these things.