Pick Your Team Pick Your Team 2018 Rnd 12 - Warriors vs Rabbitohs

[jonno]

Why the sudden love for Gelling? I’d put him at a clear 4th choice for center

He's a better defender than Kata and Hiku. He can score in traffic and knows how to pass the ball.

Basically he doesn't need any development to play that position. I think we need to be picking players on their actual merits today, and not on their potential merits in the future. We need to end Owen Glens legacy of our club becoming something way more amazing than is actually possible, and just focus on what our club currently is IMO.

 

[Danpatmac]

In the Roosters and Storm games that should be easy enough, rest of the games it might be a myth

In those 2 games the team was obliterated... to blame Hiku above anyone else is disingenuous. The entire team got owned.

He has been one of our better performers in the wins... the 8 (eight) wins.

I just dont see any justification for dropping either centre for a guy who is not noticably superior.
Beale is a journeyman. A good one but he ain't a star

 

[Inruin]

Why the sudden love for Gelling? I’d put him at a clear 4th choice for center

i'm not sure that it is clear that he ranks that high

 

[Lets Gone]

Why?

I've be tough on Ken, his game on the weekend was awesome. I think having someone on the edge with him (Beale), who can set him up, put him into a bit more space and more solid on defensive reads will help him alot.

Kata also averages under 100 metres per game and is the least versatile out of our back 5. When he makes a bad defensive read it looks Ken look bad. Ken is just following what Kata does.

Hiku isn't the best defender, but is the best in putting Fusitua in space. I think with Tohu Harris helping out Hiku on the edge is big.

1. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck - Speed
2. Fusitua - Try scoring machine
3. Hiku - x factor when then team is down in the last 5min and putting Fusitua into space
4. Beale - Defensively solid and potentially improve Ken's impact on the game.
5. Ken - Metres

imo that is a well rounded back 5

 

[jonno]

I think Beale is a certainty at left center, seeing as that's why he was recruited in the first place.

Kearney is very stubborn about his decisions. He hired Beale to replace Kata, and that's exactly what will happen now that Beale is fit.

I can see Kata leaving the club to look for greener pastures somewhere else. He'd be a superstar in Super League with his tries from dummy half.

 

[Danpatmac]

I think Beale is a certainty at left center, seeing as that's why he was recruited in the first place.

I'm interested to know how you know this?

It is not like Beale has exclusively played centre, or on the left
Beale was essentially a super-sub for the sharks when they won their premiership.
I mean the hole we had was actually probably on the right, where Ayshford was last year. But, Hiku has taken his chance and as a result we have ended up in the top 3... and not a soul predicted that.

 

[Danpatmac]

I'm interested to know how you know this?

It is not like Beale has exclusively played centre, or on the left
Beale was essentially a super-sub for the sharks when they won their premiership.
I mean the hole we had was actually probably on the right, where Ayshford was last year. But, Hiku has taken his chance and as a result we have ended up in the top 3... and not a soul predicted that.

I guess what I'm saying is that Beale needs to be screaming out to be picked from outstanding form in order to drop guys from a winning team.
It really sends the wrong message if the team is winning the vast majority of their games and guys get dropped for another bloke purely on reputation.

I really don't think that is justifiable.... especially given it is Gerard Beale, not Mal Meninga

 

[jonno]

I'm interested to know how you know this?

It is not like Beale has exclusively played centre, or on the left
Beale was essentially a super-sub for the sharks when they won their premiership.
I mean the hole we had was actually probably on the right, where Ayshford was last year. But, Hiku has taken his chance and as a result we have ended up in the top 3... and not a soul predicted that.

I think that's not entirely correct about Hiku. Ayshford was pretty handy at setting Fusitua up too if I remember correctly. He even made Lolohea look dangerous on that edge.

The real reason we're top 4 this season, IMO, is our forwards defense, especially on the try line. That for me is the biggest improvement by miles.

This season we're giving away 18.5 points a game. Last season we gave away 24 points a game. So giving away 1 try less every game is all it took to get us into contention.

Our attack is only marginally better at 20 points a game, up from 18.5 last year. That could all come from us choosing to take more penalties, or having a higher goal kicking percentage (I haven't crunched those numbers).

So I think Hiku is fun to watch, but he's not really the difference maker.

Beale, with his alround game could make a bigger difference on that left edge. It's been very weak defensively for years now, and it's got to stop. On the weekend I saw a huge hole on our left edge more than once, and luckily for us the Eels were too dumb to run an angle through it. But can you imagine the Rabbitos seeing it when they do their video work this week. This is a lot to do with the center defense pulling the line out of shape. #Cough# Kata #cough#..

Beale is also a much better distributor than Kata. So the gains we make when Beale pops into that left center position will be bigger than Hiku taking over on the right IMO. It will have the same effect as Harris replacing Brodene..

 

[Danpatmac]

I think that's not entirely correct about Hiku. Ayshford was pretty handy at setting Fusitua up too if I remember correctly. He even made Lolohea look dangerous on that edge.

The real reason we're top 4 this season, IMO, is our forwards defense, especially on the try line. That for me is the biggest improvement by miles.

This season we're giving away 18.5 points a game. Last season we gave away 24 points a game. So giving away 1 try less every game is all it took to get us into contention.

Our attack is only marginally better at 20 points a game, up from 18.5 last year. That could all come from us choosing to take more penalties, or having a higher goal kicking percentage (I haven't crunched those numbers).

So I think Hiku is fun to watch, but he's not really the difference maker.

Beale, with his alround game could make a bigger difference on that left edge. It's been very weak defensively for years now, and it's got to stop. On the weekend I saw a huge hole on our left edge more than once, and luckily for us the Eels were too dumb to run an angle through it. But can you imagine the Rabbitos not seeing it when they do their video work this week. This is a lot to do with the center defense pulling the line out of shape. #Cough# Kata #cough#..

Beale is also a much better distributor than Kata. So the gains we make when Beale pops into that left center position will be bigger than Hiku taking over on the right IMO. It will have the same effect as Harris replacing Brodene..

I asked you how you know that Beale was recruited to take Kata's spot.

Still waiting.

 

[Tragic]

In those 2 games the team was obliterated... to blame Hiku above anyone else is disingenuous. The entire team got owned.

He has been one of our better performers in the wins... the 8 (eight) wins.

I just dont see any justification for dropping either centre for a guy who is not noticably superior.
Beale is a journeyman. A good one but he ain't a star

Thats true but irrelevant to the statement that was made that Hiku lets in more than he creates and then your question of where is the eveidence for that. All I was pointing out (possibly poorly) was that in two games there might be evidence of that but I belive that is not true for all the others.So I am agreeing with you.

 

[xWarrior]

Kate impact prop? Lol

 

[Danpatmac]

Thats true but irrelevant to the statement that was made that Hiku lets in more than he creates and then your question of where is the eveidence for that. All I was pointing out (possibly poorly) was that in two games there might be evidence of that but I belive that is not true for all the others.So I am agreeing with you.

To me using the two worst performances of the year for the entire team as evidence against any one player is a weak argument. When everyone is shit, everyone is shit. I place no weight on evidence on a player from a total and utter team collapse.

take out the total debacles that were those 2 games and you have much more trustworthy data

 

[jonno]

I asked you how you know that Beale was recruited to take Kata's spot.

Still waiting.

Because Hiku went straight into right center

and then there's this

 

[Sup42]

You can't use the Roosters or Storm games as examples of anything apart from what happens when injury disrupts defensive combinations which in turn leads to catastrophic systems failure.

 

[jonno]

You can't use the Roosters or Storm games as examples of anything apart from what happens when injury disrupts defensive combinations which in turn leads to catastrophic systems failure.

That's why I'd like to see Gelling get another shot.

He was outstanding in the game V the Dragons. Played in the catastrophe that was the Storm game, and now is never to be seen again?

I still reckon our two best centers are Beale and Gelling.

 

[Danpatmac]

Because Hiku went straight into right center

and then there's this

So you actually don't know then, you are assuming.
Hiku went into right centre because, as I pointed out previously... that is where we were short a centre.
Ayshford (injured) Beale (injured)
It is totally possible that Beale would've ended up there if fit.

 

[Tragic]

To me using the two worst performances of the year for the entire team as evidence against any one player is a weak argument. When everyone is shit, everyone is shit. I place no weight on evidence on a player from a total and utter team collapse.

take out the total debacles that were those 2 games and you have much more trustworthy data

I wasn't making an argument I was responding to the question of where there is evidence that Hiku was letting in more points. I think he makes more than he lets in overall so thought the statement that he lets in more was a myth but I conceded that there is evidence if you only look at those two games where we scored zero
The answer might be weak but its still true. You can blame the team but I can't see how you can argue that Hiku (or any player) created more points than they conceded when we score zero. I am not that good at maths though so intereted to hear a theory that proves otherwise.

 

[jonno]

So you actually don't know then, you are assuming.
Hiku went into right centre because, as I pointed out previously... that is where we were short a centre.
Ayshford (injured) Beale (injured)
It is totally possible that Beale would've ended up there if fit.

Nobody knows anything for certain about what Kearney is doing. That's the way he plays it.

Maybe he brought Hiku into play left center, with Beale on the right, and the injuries forced his hand to put Hiku on the right?

104:40


One thing's for sure, is that SK brought in a replacement for Kata (as well as Ayshford). Whether it's Hiku or Beale is a point for discussion I guess.

And seeing as Hiku is already settled on the right, the left looks to be Beales.

 

[Danpatmac]

Nobody knows anything for certain about what Kearney is doing. That's the way he plays it.

Maybe he brought Hiku into play left center, with Beale on the right, and the injuries forced his hand to put Hiku on the right?

104:40


One thing's for sure, is that SK brought in a replacement for Kata (as well as Ayshford). Whether it's Hiku or Beale is a point for discussion I guess.

And seeing as Hiku is already settled on the right, the left looks to be Beales.

and I still disagree.

He brought in Hiku and Beale to play for our club, to try and make definitive statements about where he was planning to play them is foolish as you already pointed out, you don't actually know.

for all we know he brought Hiku in to play wing and Beale to be the supersub off the bench just like at the sharks.

 

[Danpatmac]

I conceded that there is evidence if you only look at those two games where we scored zero

I'm not arguing you, I'm arguing the original point.

secondly, I'm simply stating that you need to disregard those games entirely as they were tainted by the fact all players were garbage.