Pick Your Team Pick Your Team 2017 Rnd 19 - Warriors vs Panthers

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jonno

jonno

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Just because they are in the reserve grade it doesn't mean they are prepared for the top side. You replace the whole top side with the ISP team and we will lose by 100 points.

It's not that they are unfit. They just aren't fit enough. Yet. That's the whole point of the reserve grade. Bringing players up to grade, developing their skill set and stamina. You know that right? Feel like I'm talking to a child TBH.

Classic example is John Palavi. 80 minute player in NSW Cup week in week out but when placed in the top side he was gassed after 10 minutes.

Hope this isn't a new conspiracy theory of yours. My tin foil hat is in the shop getting repaired.

Stop being such a drama queen...
John Palavi played in the last fg game we beat the dragons... He was fit enough for that.

But our regular FG team can't get it done for some reason.
 
Inruin

Inruin

Contributor
it's pretty simple IMO. we should be picking the best u15's we have so that by the time they are ready for first grade they will already have all that first grade experience and the step up to that level won't be big at all.
 
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Miket12

Miket12

it's pretty simple IMO. we should be picking the best u15's we have so that by the time they are ready for first grade they will already have all that first grade experience and the step up to that level won't be big at all.
Upload 2017 7 9 8 3 40

This guy debuted in his teens and he's gone on to have a pretty decent career,
 
bruce

bruce

Contributor
Just because they are in the reserve grade it doesn't mean they are prepared for the top side. You replace the whole top side with the ISP team and we will lose by 100 points.

It's not that they are unfit. They just aren't fit enough. Yet. That's the whole point of the reserve grade. Bringing players up to grade, developing their skill set and stamina. You know that right? Feel like I'm talking to a child TBH.
The difference between FG and ISP is the speed of the game, same as FG and SOO, and also SOO and Test match football. Better players play faster. So a reserve grade player might be as fit in the gym and on the training paddock but his awareness of the speed at the top level will always be in question, especially when he is under pressure from fatigue. That is one of the reasons the Warriors are not an 80 minute side, too many reserve grade players in FG.

However, even reserve grade players will get accustomed to the speed of FG as they get more exposure, but it is a trade off because the experience will cost the side in the meantime. That is SK's dilemma.
 
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bruce

bruce

Contributor
it's pretty simple IMO. we should be picking the best u15's we have so that by the time they are ready for first grade they will already have all that first grade experience and the step up to that level won't be big at all.
Honest question, but have you played the game at senior level?
 
jonno

jonno

The difference between FG and ISP is the speed of the game, same as FG and SOO, and also SOO and Test match football. Better players play faster. So a reserve grade player might be as fit in the gym and on the training paddock but his awareness of the speed at the top level will always be in question, especially when he is under pressure from fatigue. That is one of the reasons the Warriors are not an 80 minute side, too many reserve grade players in FG.
So what does it take before Pat Sipley is ready for FG?

Surely he needs some game time in FG to give him a taste? And maybe he's ready but just isn't getting a shot?

Only one way to find out.
 
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bruce

bruce

Contributor
So what does it take before Pat Sipley is ready for FG?

Surely he needs some game time in FG to give him a taste? And maybe he's ready but just isn't getting a shot?

Only one way to find out.
However, even reserve grade players will get accustomed to the speed of FG as they get more exposure, but it is a trade off because the experience will cost the side in the meantime. That is SK's dilemma.
Sorry I added the edit after you quoted me.
 
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mt.wellington

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
John Palavi played in the last fg game we beat the dragons... He was fit enough for that.

But our regular FG team can't get it done for some reason.
You clearly dont remember the game. He played some 15 minutes and was so gassed he could barely get up straight after tackling someone...
 

Jordan G

Guest
That was the other Sipley?

Palavi was so impressive during pre-season the senior players demanded he be picked (as the probably exagerrated story goes ). Elliott's first year. Barely lasted 10 mins.

Step up is massive from ISP to FG for forwards especially.
 
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MurrayTD

MurrayTD

So what does it take before Pat Sipley is ready for FG?

Surely he needs some game time in FG to give him a taste? And maybe he's ready but just isn't getting a shot?

Only one way to find out.
I agree.

Unsure how you get 1st grade fit, without actually playing first grade.

it is laughable saying some players are not ready, when clearly most of our first grade side isn't up to it. Give them a shot to confirm or deny it.
 
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Inruin

Inruin

Contributor
Honest question, but have you played the game at senior level?
honest question, are you serious? Because my previous post obviously wasn't. Well to the vast majority it wasn't.
 
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jonno

jonno

Palavi was so impressive during pre-season the senior players demanded he be picked (as the probably exagerrated story goes ). Elliott's first year. Barely lasted 10 mins.

Step up is massive from ISP to FG for forwards especially.
A lot of that comes down to nerves. Cappy was able to talk Ikahihifo into relaxing a little, while on the field, back in 2014, and overnight he went from being gassed out early to being electric for us (for a couple of months before he decided that he didn't enjoy contact sports). No extra fitness, just a little extra confidence...

Same thing with Palavi. During the game vs the Dragons last year, when our chosen ones were suspended for drug use, Palavi played well in a winning team without showing any signs of being unfit.
 
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bruce

bruce

Contributor
I agree.

Unsure how you get 1st grade fit, without actually playing first grade.

it is laughable saying some players are not ready, when clearly most of our first grade side isn't up to it. Give them a shot to confirm or deny it.
That is SK's dilemma. He has to feed them into the first grade pace. Having one or two from ISP is one thing, having half the team is completely different. That was the problem with everybody thinking the club had crash hot juniors and putting them straight through to first grade without reserve grade first, when reserve grade was way faster than under 20s, even allowing for the fact that defence in under 20s was optional.
 
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bruce

bruce

Contributor
A lot of that comes down to nerves. Cappy was able to talk Ikahihifo into relaxing a little, while on the field, back in 2014, and overnight he went from being gassed out early to being electric for us (for a couple of months before he decided that he didn't enjoy contact sports). No extra fitness, just a little extra confidence...

Same thing with Palavi. During the game vs the Dragons last year, when our chosen ones were suspended for drug use, Palavi played well in a winning team without showing any signs of being unfit.
Nerves is only part of it. It is the same as aging players who might not be as fast around the park as when they were young, but use their experience to read play and save effort that way. Players used to the pace think quickly, newbies can get flustered, it can affect their confidence which costs them energy. Genuine star players seemed to have less problem. Mannering was one of those, and so was Stacey Jones.
 
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dean

Nerves is only part of it. It is the same as aging players who might not be as fast around the park as when they were young, but use their experience to read play and save effort that way. Players used to the pace think quickly, newbies can get flustered, it can affect their confidence which costs them energy. Genuine star players seemed to have less problem. Mannering was one of those, and so was Stacey Jones.

Its like a lot of sports, it is not all about what you do on the ball all the time. What you do off it is very important. Putting doubt or extra options into your opposites mind so the decision making is that little bit slower, or a poor decision is made. All the athleticism won't win games if confidence and brains are lacking. The problem is finding young players with old heads.
 
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