Pick Your Team Pick Your Team 2017 Rnd 13 - Eels vs Warriors

[Gizzyfan]

As far as the stats go what constitutes a tackle and a miss. I mention that as I know the All Blacks started using stats of effective tackles, which changed the look of things entirely.

Same as run metres, make it effective run metres, Gavet didn't run for as much as others, but he was effective.

 

[Magic Johnson]

Lol at people leaving vete out, you guys must get a buzz out of seeing the Warriors kicking from inside there own 30 and seeing teams roll trough us for 80 metres a set, you can excuse miss tackles when players are trying to put a dominant shot on especially when they are covered by other defenders, can anyone actually remember vetes misses? or is everyone just so into fantasy and SuperCoach that they just have there head stuck in there phones all game long looking at stats? I remember one of his misses when he tried to put a shot on and as mentioned above had cover don't remember the other. For some context Adam Blair missed twice as many

 

[Defence]

1.RTS
2.Maumalo
3.ayshford
4.Fusitua
5.ckn
6.Foran
7.Johnson
8.Gavet
9.luke
10.vete
11.matulino
12.Hoffman
13.Mannering

14. Tevaga
15. Lillyman
16. sipley
17. lisone

 

[FAN]

LOL cracks me up every week. We all know SK won't make any changes...............don't we ??

For the record I like the ^^^ above team pick ^^^ so I guess i'm staying above the line this week, must be some kind of process.......

 

[Sup42]

I've only seen the highlights, but it appears Thompson has been playing poorly from his stats, particularly attack. I would have Afoa in there.

For the Trainspotters out there I have questions.

1. Why do we have players who only play about 10 minutes off the bench or even not at all, surely it is a 17 man game. Surely that 10 minutes can be taken by a Sipley or similar if necessary.

2. Are there stats showing how many interchanges are unused each week.

3. How do forum members think Kearney handles the Interchange (he is ultimately responsible)

I don't know if there are stats for unused benchmen.

As for your other questions.....its hard to answer because this phenomena of some players getting zero minutes is relatively new. Cappy did it if IRC.

Certainly it is no one off thing....but I haven't heard any Authority in the modern game shed light on carrying players that might not play at all.....and even opposition coaches have raised an eyebrow in post match Presser's when asked to comment on some of our unique uses of the bench.

I'm glad you mentioned the Seventeen man game Maxim. The use of our bench has seemed to challenge all accepted wisdom and convention.

Roach has sat on the bench, + Tui......and then there was the Cappy /Elliot stuff where we carried an outside back on the bench for some games.

So we are not talking a one off thing.....but it seems peculiar to this club.

My best guess is the experimentation is being guided by overriding principles the kind of process stuff, and before that the Cappy/Elliot KPI focus (a spare back to cover tiring unfit backs....Insurance for Injury prone backs).

I think Kearney's bench use is an extension of his sticking with the same starting 13....its almost as if he won't risk change.

Basically its a risk adverse approach in the interest of finding consistency.

So you pick experience over form.

You invest in the idea that your most experienced guys are best equipped to follow the process.

As such, you try to make as few changes to staffing. This mentality makes a persona non grata on a bench possible.

Impact from the bench becomes a lesser goal (in a team where players often wander from the script).

Most of all I think our odd bench scenario's are driven by:

1) A lack of experienced alternatives to drive competition for spots/ give the coach options

2) consistency is not being seen at training.

3) our players are shyte defensively In the Under grades making it very hard to run a conventional bench for a regular 13 who are struggling to change their ways under the hundredth fg coaching change.

 

[bruce]

you can excuse miss tackles when players are trying to put a dominant shot on especially when they are covered by other defenders,

How many dominant shots to you see from Mannering? He just tackles them. Mannering himself alluded to the drop in the number of missed tackles compared with last week (about half) that earned the win.

Vete's hitups were impressive but nothing excuses a missed tackle. Just look at James Graham's missed tackling stats (0.6 per game). If there is anybody who could be excused for missing a tackle it could be him.

 

[Gizzyfan]

I don't know if there are stats for unused benchmen.

As for your other questions.....its hard to answer because this phenomena of some players getting zero minutes is relatively new. Cappy did it if IRC.

Certainly it is no one off thing....but I haven't heard any Authority in the modern game shed light on carrying players that might not play at all.....and even opposition coaches have raised an eyebrow in post match Presser's when asked to comment on some of our unique uses of the bench.

I'm glad you mentioned the Seventeen man game Maxim. The use of our bench has seemed to challenge all accepted wisdom and convention.

Roach has sat on the bench, + Tui......and then there was the Cappy /Elliot stuff where we carried an outside back on the bench for some games.

So we are not talking a one off thing.....but it seems peculiar to this club.

My best guess is the experimentation is being guided by overriding principles the kind of process stuff, and before that the Cappy/Elliot KPI focus (a spare back to cover tiring unfit backs....Insurance for Injury prone backs).

I think Kearney's bench use is an extension of his sticking with the same starting 13....its almost as if he won't risk change.

Basically its a risk adverse approach in the interest of finding consistency.

So you pick experience over form.

You invest in the idea that your most experienced guys are best equipped to follow the process.

As such, you try to make as few changes to staffing. This mentality makes a persona non grata on a bench possible.

Impact from the bench becomes a lesser goal (in a team where players often wander from the script).

Most of all I think our odd bench scenario's are driven by:

1) A lack of experienced alternatives to drive competition for spots/ give the coach options

2) consistency is not being seen at training.

3) our players are shyte defensively In the Under grades making it very hard to run a conventional bench for a regular 13 who are struggling to change their ways under the hundredth fg coaching change.

Just in response to this. And this is not a go at you as I think you have summed up the situation nicely. The flaws in this mindset are, going point to point:

1. How do players get experience if they don't get the chance.

2. This is where arses have to be kicked, the standards and intensity are set here.

3. Players are coming through like Tevaga and Afoa, who can defend. We make too much of 80 minute players. Fatigue has to factor in. Simply, a good 800 metre runner will be beaten by two good 400 runners in relay.

 

[eudebrito]

Seeing as we are playing 48 hours after SoO probably won’t play lillyman (whether he offers anything is a different discussion)

Last time Kata had a week off with his hamstring he couldn’t make it through the panthers game, so best not to pick him.

Sooooo, same team.

Roache probably looked the best he has all year, but 2 bench players playing a combined 28 minutes is annoying – but on the weekend Smith and Cornish for the roosters played 26 combined, Cook and Cherrington for souths played 30 and Cyldesdale and Lui for the raiders played 27 – so its not unique to our team.

 

[Magic Johnson]

How many dominant shots to you see from Mannering? He just tackles them. Mannering himself alluded to the drop in the number of missed tackles compared with last week (about half) that earned the win.

Vete's hitups were impressive but nothing excuses a missed tackle. Just look at James Graham's missed tackling stats (0.6 per game). If there is anybody who could be excused for missing a tackle it could be him.

we need balance, the biggest reason we don't win the forward battle is because we have a team full of workers, Mannering, Hoffman, Lillyman, Gubb, Thompson.
a few of those guys in your 17 are fine but they're not asking any questions of the opposition, there not fatiguing the opposition through heavy contact and they're not forcing the opposition in to mistakes through aggressive defense,

 

[Navigator]

Just in response to this. And this is not a go at you as I think you have summed up the situation nicely. The flaws in this mindset are, going point to point:

1. How do players get experience if they don't get the chance.

2. This is where arses have to be kicked, the standards and intensity are set here.

3. Players are coming through like Tevaga and Afoa, who can defend. We make too much of 80 minute players. Fatigue has to factor in. Simply, a good 800 metre runner will be beaten by two good 400 runners in relay.

They experience what the coach is going to be like after losing.
Its like if you don't perform you don't want to have me coming down on you like this do you

 

[Inruin]

I think if you are going to play one of the Sipleys off the bench this week we need to carry a four forward bench. More than likely we will only get 10 minutes out of them before they are gassed. Might be a good option to replace Roache on the bench with one of them

 

[WellingtonOrca]

Ugh, 9:50pm start, I hate these games.

 

[Sup42]

Seeing as we are playing 48 hours after SoO probably won’t play lillyman (whether he offers anything is a different discussion)

Last time Kata had a week off with his hamstring he couldn’t make it through the panthers game, so best not to pick him.

Sooooo, same team.

Roache probably looked the best he has all year, but 2 bench players playing a combined 28 minutes is annoying – but on the weekend Smith and Cornish for the roosters played 26 combined, Cook and Cherrington for souths played 30 and Cyldesdale and Lui for the raiders played 27 – so its not unique to our team.

Are you aware of any teams that have a bench man not play at all ? or carry a center type set up bro ?
That seems unique to this lot.

 

[Magic Johnson]

Are you aware of any teams that have a bench man not play at all ? or carry a center type set up bro ?
That seems unique to this lot.

I follow the raiders quite closely and they do it regularly, Dunamis Lui has been named a on the bench a couple of times this year and not gone on same with there bench hooker(clydsdale) in fact in one game they both didn't come on so the raiders only used 15.
the limited interchanges means if your making an interchange you need to make it worthwhile, no point bringing on an inferior player just because he's fresh, fresh shit players are still shit

 

[Sup42]

I follow the raiders quite closely and they do it regularly, Dunamis Lui has been named a on the bench a couple of times this year and not gone on same with there bench hooker(clydsdale) in fact in one game they both didn't come on so the raiders only used 15.
the limited interchanges means if your making an interchange you need to make it worthwhile, no point bringing on an inferior player just because he's fresh, fresh shit players are still shit

Thanks that's very interesting.
McFadden being an ex Raider staffer.

 

[eudebrito]

Are you aware of any teams that have a bench man not play at all ? or carry a center type set up bro ?
That seems unique to this lot.

The storm and sharks played the grand final with a back reserve, but they had the 2 best hookers in ennis and smith who never needed to come off the field, so it’s no big deal. They’ve mostly gone back to four forwards this year.

The Dominic Peyroux memorial bench center spot was just cos Konrad was unfit. Lolohea did play off the bench, but that was basically injury cover, they never really had a plan to use him outside of that.

Over half the teams have 2 props, 1 backrower and 1 hooker/utility. Same as us. Connor Watson, Kodi Nikorima, Ben Hampton, Jackson Hastings, Damian Cook are some of the better players doing that number 14 job. Both origin teams have picked utilities. If you have a dominant forwards you can play your utility at the same time as your hooker in a roving lock position, but we don't have that, and it'd be a bad idea. Kiwis with Leuluai could get away with it for example.

With the concussion rules, it seems more teams are moving towards a utility, so I don’t have a problem with Roache. Issac Luke should be playing 65+ minutes, he’s the better player.

It does grind my gears that Thompson is struggling on the right edge and they don’t give Afoa more of his minutes, or even shove Mannering out there to hold the fort and play one of the Sipleys in the middle for a stint.

Hoffman knows how to manage his way through 80 minutes, hence he's always the one coming out of the line for charge downs in late games, or running a line for his half in the 75th minute. thompson looks like he's blowing out early.

Short story, selection is fine, usage isn’t ideal. IMO.

 

[Billyspleen75]

Fatigue has to factor in. Simply, a good 800 metre runner will be beaten by two good 400 runners in relay.

Phwwwooooar. Mind Blown. This is so fucking on point.

 

[WellingtonOrca]

Are you aware of any teams that have a bench man not play at all ? or carry a center type set up bro ?
That seems unique to this lot.

Sharks did it a few times last year, having a 0 min player. It's just how some coaches have experimented/adapted to the 8 man interchange rule that came in last year i.e. keep 3 of the bench players using the same number of interchanges that they did under the 10 man rule.

 

[Vancent]

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad Hoppe, Kata (Ayshford), Fusitua, Ken (yup - becoming converted), KF, Shaun Johnson, Gavet, Luke, Mutts, Bodene, Hoff, Mannering - Roache, Vete, Afoa, Tof.

Injuries - covered. Size and impact - covered. Lisone and Lilly missing. I'm over Lisone, even at his best he's in between roles, send him to ISP to play 80mins, he's our next lock.

Lillyman - well let's rest him for a fortnight before the next SOO selection kicks in, he'll be tired I'm sure

This side wins away.

 

[Vancent]

As far as the stats go what constitutes a tackle and a miss. I mention that as I know the All Blacks started using stats of effective tackles, which changed the look of things entirely.

Hindmarsh and Marquee would detest this stat!!