General NZ Election

  • Thread starter The 22 BEAST_old
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Northern_Union

Guest
Perfect song for Johnnny Key.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0[/youtube]

Assets sales isn't the way to go. Short sighted. Sell and asset now for $100 but if we had have waited 10 years that asset would have paided out $500. Labour started the asset sales in the late 80's and have learnt from thos mistakes. Privatization doesn't work either. Max Bradford taught us this when with National and promised us all cheaper power prices with a competitive market driven price war. Power prices have gone through the roof since and promise to go even higher soon.
None of these fools have a clue, national and Key included.
Labour are not the labour born from the union movement and the working classes of the turn of the last century. Labour is full of homosexuals, lesbians and accademics. Which of the current mob from labour has a true working class background? Not many i wager. The Greens.....they seem to have moved into the left ground that once Labour held before they moved to the centre along with national. The Greens are still nuts but at least they still have some moral back bone left to them and don't sell their beliefs out to get into power.
The rest are either racest parties from either side of the divide or barely worth worring about.
 

PB_old

Guest
The Greens.....they seem to have moved into the left ground that once Labour held before they moved to the centre along with national. The Greens are still nuts but at least they still have some moral back bone left to them and don't sell their beliefs out to get into power.

Not as nuts as they used to be. The Wild Green influence has been toned and the leadershoip voted in by members accordingly. This squeezed out Bradford and others.
 

dingleberry_old

Guest
Not as nuts as they used to be. The Wild Green influence has been toned and the leadershoip voted in by members accordingly. This squeezed out Bradford and others.

who would have thought that Greens would be turning out players for the Parliamentary first xv while ACT were trying to attract the stoner vote with the legalize cannabis schtick
 

NEWBIE_old

Guest
Labour's problem is the leadership of the party as previously stated before all have the stigma of been invovled in the last Labour government. They need somone new and fresh who dosent have stigman of the last Labour government.

As for National outside of John Key and Bill English i struggle to name any other National MPs.

Two years from now the cracks will start appearing in National just like any other government abuse of travelling perks, use of MP perks for private use etc, it happens every time.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I've heard it suggested that Andrew Little will most likely take over the leadership after the election, then pull Labour further left, (and away from M.O.R. voters), which will weaken their position further.

Thoughts?
 

MarkW_old

Guest
I've heard it suggested that Andrew Little will most likely take over the leadership after the election, then pull Labour further left, (and away from M.O.R. voters), which will weaken their position further.

Thoughts?

There have been a few names bandied about over the course of the last few years for potential leaders to replace Goff. I'd hedge a bet that David Cunliffe would be the front runner. Little is also a prime candidate - and maybe a 'new' face will be an advantage for him (although he was a former Labour party president).
As for Little shifting the party further to the left, I don't think that will necessarily weaken their position. The Greens are siphoning the left leaning vote already from Labour - and it may see them get their highest ever party vote as a result in the coming election.
 

PB_old

Guest
There have been a few names bandied about over the course of the last few years for potential leaders to replace Goff. I'd hedge a bet that David Cunliffe would be the front runner. Little is also a prime candidate - and maybe a 'new' face will be an advantage for him (although he was a former Labour party president).
As for Little shifting the party further to the left, I don't think that will necessarily weaken their position. The Greens are siphoning the left leaning vote already from Labour - and it may see them get their highest ever party vote as a result in the coming election.

Agreed. Cunliffe is a pretty smart operator and holds a safe seat. Little has advantages, but unlike Cunliffe he can't claim an electorate's mandate...yet. But I think he'll be pushing it up-hill in New Plymouth.

Also agree re:not weakening. The Greens and the Maori parties are gaining union votes. It will look like Labour actually have a direction and are addressing concerns.

Unions could, potentially, gain strength as the global economy continues to tank. A significant section of people -- A.K.A, 'those that are completely farked' -- will seek their perceived security, and vote for whichever party aligns with their concerns/allows them to feed their family.
 
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LordGnome_old

Guest
A lot of the comments here demonstrate what is wrong with the NZ voting public, too much interest in individual politicians and their personalitites with very little debate on their stated manifesto and policies.

Maybe the election could take the form of some sort of reality tv show, Parliament's Got Talent or something, where one could vote by pressing the red button?
 

PB_old

Guest
A lot of the comments here demonstrate what is wrong with the NZ voting public, too much interest in individual politicians and their personalitites with very little debate on their stated manifesto and policies.

Maybe the election could take the form of some sort of reality tv show, Parliament's Got Talent or something, where one could vote by pressing the red button?

Don't read too much into what is a fairly light discussion, LG.

If I wanted heavy I'd pick a fight on a political forum/blog.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
A lot of the comments here demonstrate what is wrong with the NZ voting public, too much interest in individual politicians and their personalitites with very little debate on their stated manifesto and policies.

Maybe the election could take the form of some sort of reality tv show, Parliament's Got Talent or something, where one could vote by pressing the red button?

Wait a second...are you suggesting that Wayne Anderson needs to offer more than his three and a half octave voice?
 

MarkW_old

Guest
Yeah, it's easy to get distracted by the individuals/personalities - but the winning party leader it the person that represents our country and ultimately wields the most power, so it's understandable.

Keen to delve into some policy comparison... LG, you can kick it off ;)
 

dingleberry_old

Guest
Little has advantages, but unlike Cunliffe he can't claim an electorate's mandate...yet.

While I get that people who don't seem to understand MMP (not at all implying you by any means :): ) always think this is such a big deal. I always think this is a gyp... If labour want to get Little an electorates mandate, they just have to get him to run in Manurewa, Mt Albert, Mt Roskill, et al... aka safe Labour seats.

Conversely, if you ran John Key in any of those Electorates there's every chance he wouldn't get "an electorates mandate".

Unfortunately all that stuff is a hangover from FPP - which many people don't understand. My girlfriend's mother wanted FPP back because she didn't care about the local candidates, she just wanted it to be easy and vote for the party. I tried to explain to her that's what her party vote is under MMP and that such a thing doesn't exist under FPP... but alas.

My one other point, of course, is that, as a leader of a party, they are running a country. Surely they can run a country more effectively if they aren't tied to the duties of an electorate?
 
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danco_old

Guest
This coming election National will bolt in with a larger majority as there is no true oppersition , maybe except the new modified Green party. If Banks doesnt get Epsom Act is gone and I think Winston will join them, gone too.
 

PB_old

Guest
While I get that people who don't seem to understand MMP (not at all implying you by any means :): ) always think this is such a big deal. I always think this is a gyp... If labour want to get Little an electorates mandate, they just have to get him to run in Manurewa, Mt Albert, Mt Roskill, et al... aka safe Labour seats.

Conversely, if you ran John Key in any of those Electorates there's every chance he wouldn't get "an electorates mandate".

Unfortunately all that stuff is a hangover from FPP - which many people don't understand. My girlfriend's mother wanted FPP back because she didn't care about the local candidates, she just wanted it to be easy and vote for the party. I tried to explain to her that's what her party vote is under MMP and that such a thing doesn't exist under FPP... but alas.

My one other point, of course, is that, as a leader of a party, they are running a country. Surely they can run a country more effectively if they aren't tied to the duties of an electorate?

All relevant, for sure. Preaching to the converted here. The Green party have no issues operating with list-member leadership.

Probably should point out that I'm Green-party aligned, so hardly neutral.
 

dingleberry_old

Guest
Haha, yeah, I could tell, more kinda putting it out for discussion really. We should have done the secret handshake ;)
 

MarkW_old

Guest
Hard to argue with any of that dberry.

The party vote is THE MOST important vote in MMP and some voters still fail to grasp that concept.

The electorate vote is almost incidental, especially when you have a list MP or two from said electorate sneaking in the back door so to speak.

The electorate vote is most valuable to a party that cannot reach the 5% threshold (ACT is a perfect example) or a candidate who is a bit too far down their party list to be comfortable.

I agree with comment about party leaders and their ability to properly represent their electorate too. How much time would Key actually be able to spend in his Helensville electorate - he lives nowhere near it either.
 

Spence_old

Guest
Does Key not have to run in the Parnell (or whatever area Parnell is in), can you chose what electorate to run in, rather than what area you own a hosue?
 

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