General NRL Expansion

[gREVUS]

I was half joking. But anyway,

Half Auckland population for a second team would be around 750 supporters. That is with a even split. Realistically 90% would stay with the Warriors and you might get a few hundred thousand supporting the new franchise.

Wellington central is 215k but Greater Wellington including up the Kapiti is 527k. Greater Christchurch is 520k. Combined they are 1m+ and eclipse a halved auckland without even pulling in the other major centres (New Plymouth, Palmerston North, Dunedin, etc).

your figures sound better, but i dont think many not living in cities travel to games, just my opinion. even if u put the franchise in two centers, they can only be based in 1. i personally cant see the support required anywhere but auckland. and i think a two team rivalry would be great for the game

 

[snake77]

If they do want to be serious about a second NZ team they should really take the time to do it right.
Year 1 Invest in a schools comp n the likes of BOP,HB,East Coast, Manawatu,Taranaki,Tasman,Canterbury,Otago play it in summer if you have to to get numbers up and perhaps convert a few Union boys.
Recruit coaches from Aus systems to teach our next generation of coaches, particularly in fundamentals.
Year 2 Introduce a regional rep competition at school level for those schools to compete as a province etc introduces first pathway.
Year 3 From those provincial rep teams select a wider squad for an SG ball team, set up living and support/development facilities in Wellington and Christchurch.
Year 5/6 Look at NSW/QLD cup Team
Year 8(2030) NRL team.
Could still set up the pathways and have the team in earlier but will take a bit of time to see the results.
Perth I believe already has something in place but set up something similar in Adelaide And there’s a 20 team comp that will tick most boxes for quite a while

This would be the best way to go about it. We don't have the capital in New Zealand or wouldn't invest in the right areas.

Something like this would of been something Gould would of looked at if he stayed in his role and could travel to NZ. How successful he would of been. Chances are he may of got frustrated and packed it in.

I've often thought it would be good to have strong comp in Auckland or NA wide of the level of the NSW or Queensland Cups to help create a wider player pool. The Warriors and the other NZ team could then have a local feeder team which would help with costs.

This could then filter down to age group sides.

The NRL sides sign a lot of New Zealand talent it would be good to have more investment so the player pool expands and the players are better developed.

 

[Sky Waka]

Don't even have 1 team in NZ.

I've seen the draw where the Warriors are playing and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the Warriors this year is just a trial run for the Dolphins next year.

 

[matiunz]

I was half joking. But anyway,

Half Auckland population for a second team would be around 750 supporters. That is with a even split. Realistically 90% would stay with the Warriors and you might get a few hundred thousand supporting the new franchise.

Wellington central is 215k but Greater Wellington including up the Kapiti is 527k. Greater Christchurch is 520k. Combined they are 1m+ and eclipse a halved auckland without even pulling in the other major centres (New Plymouth, Palmerston North, Dunedin, etc).

Thank you! Always frustrates me when people quote Wellington as having a population of around 200k- it’s like saying Auckland only has 400k and ignore north/west and south Auckland.
Dont think the split cities would work and on one hand Christchurch looks appealing being a seperate island and particularly with the new stadium but you kind of limit its supporter base to around 1m being just a South Island team, Crusaders rule the roost a bit too much down there.
Wellington is a bit more accessible for around 2 and a bit million non South Island or Auckland population and I’d say would be an easier sell to the South Island as a ‘southern team’ than a South Island team would be to the rest of the north island catchment. Problem would be the stadium situation

 

[matiunz]

Don't even have 1 team in NZ.

I've seen the draw where the Warriors are playing and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the Warriors this year is just a trial run for the Dolphins next year.

Kill the Warriors and likely kill league in NZ, doubt NRL would like to concede one of their biggest player factories to union either

 

[ramraider78]

imo the only place a second franchise would be succesful is ..... Auckland.
it would create a real rivalry, allow more home games and building strong local support, allow teams to travel in side NZ more often (extending the NRL brand), and solidify a real competitor to rugby in the north.
2 million peps in auckland 3 mill spread everywhere else. u have to go with the numbers

I read an interview from Gus Gould when he was at the NZW, he thought a 2nd Auckland franchise made sense off the strength of the grassroots rugby league in the region - North Shore was the best place for it, Albany? Facilities out that side of the city was appealing.

 

[Defence]

Thank you! Always frustrates me when people quote Wellington as having a population of around 200k- it’s like saying Auckland only has 400k and ignore north/west and south Auckland.
Dont think the split cities would work and on one hand Christchurch looks appealing being a seperate island and particularly with the new stadium but you kind of limit its supporter base to around 1m being just a South Island team, Crusaders rule the roost a bit too much down there.
Wellington is a bit more accessible for around 2 and a bit million non South Island or Auckland population and I’d say would be an easier sell to the South Island as a ‘southern team’ than a South Island team would be to the rest of the north island catchment. Problem would be the stadium situation

I was thinking about that- anything with south in the name and north islanders wouldn’t support it (Canterbury would be even more restrictive) and likewise wellington would be a hard sell for south islanders.
Maybe they should go back to Auckland warriors and the second team could be the nz whatever’s- which would appeal to everyone outside of Auckland- u would still have to base it somewhere (most likely chch imo) but could play games elsewhere and if it bombed in chch u could relocate to wellington (or wherever) without needing a name change.

 

[mt.wellington]

I read an interview from Gus Gould when he was at the NZW, he thought a 2nd Auckland franchise made sense off the strength of the grassroots rugby league in the region - North Shore was the best place for it, Albany? Facilities out that side of the city was appealing.

Have always believed the only viable solution is a 2nd Auckland team.

A second Auckland team is the only thing that makes sense if an expansion team was to ever happen. Other areas in NZ just don't have the numbers to make it a success long term. Both in juniors and supporters.Thing is I don't see NZ getting another team for a long time yet. Hopefully by then Wellington or Christchurch have rejuvenated their club scene. Christchurch is increasing slightly but Wellington is losing numbers with almost all their clubs struggling to stay open...

I dont see any other province in NZ being able to do it justice without the playing numbers, nursery and infrastructure. Even Auckland infrastructure is trash but its head and shoulders better than the rest of the country put together.

A West Auckland based team would be my best guess. While South Auckland has the junior player numbers its West Auckland that has historically provided the most talent in NRL teams and is the largest fan base for the Warriors season members.

Only way another team outside of Auckland succeeds is with a huge amount of sustained financial support from the NRL or some rich supporter. We are talking about at least a decade of putting in $3-5 million a year with little to no return. In that time that team would have to be a success to gather supporters and start to become self sustainable.

In saying all that I dont think expansion is a good thing. We've seen with Super Rugby what happens when yoou dilute the competition too much. Instead of increasing the support base you actually diminish it as the end product isnt as entertaining...

 

[Bushman]

Have always believed the only viable solution is a 2nd Auckland team.



I dont see any other province in NZ being able to do it justice without the playing numbers, nursery and infrastructure. Even Auckland infrastructure is trash but its head and shoulders better than the rest of the country put together.

A West Auckland based team would be my best guess. While South Auckland has the junior player numbers its West Auckland that has historically provided the most talent in NRL teams and is the largest fan base for the Warriors season members.

Only way another team outside of Auckland succeeds is with a huge amount of sustained financial support from the NRL or some rich supporter. We are talking about at least a decade of putting in $3-5 million a year with little to no return. In that time that team would have to be a success to gather supporters and start to become self sustainable.

In saying all that I dont think expansion is a good thing. We've seen with Super Rugby what happens when yoou dilute the competition too much. Instead of increasing the support base you actually diminish it as the end product isnt as entertaining...

All thought I'd support both NZ teams but primarily Warriors but a west Auckland based team would make it a hard choice. Shit public access to trust stadium. (Is that what's called) close to motorway though and closer still to the sand dunes. Have to agree, another team outside Auckland would be best but not enough local players, pathways, talent etc

 

[matiunz]

All thought I'd support both NZ teams but primarily Warriors but a west Auckland based team would make it a hard choice. Shit public access to trust stadium. (Is that what's called) close to motorway though and closer still to the sand dunes. Have to agree, another team outside Auckland would be best but not enough local players, pathways, talent etc

Would be interesting to see if a second Auckland team could build a big enough supporter base. Most NZers will support the Warriors currently just because it’s the only NZ team, can’t see many except for the hugely jaded jumping ship for another Auckland team.
Even those currently in Auckland you’d have to convert a huge number of current Warriors fans which I’m not sure will be too many?

 

[Viking]

I read an interview from Gus Gould when he was at the NZW, he thought a 2nd Auckland franchise made sense off the strength of the grassroots rugby league in the region - North Shore was the best place for it, Albany? Facilities out that side of the city was appealing.

NZs version of the silvertails.

 

[Miket12]

Have always believed the only viable solution is a 2nd Auckland team.



I dont see any other province in NZ being able to do it justice without the playing numbers, nursery and infrastructure. Even Auckland infrastructure is trash but its head and shoulders better than the rest of the country put together.

A West Auckland based team would be my best guess. While South Auckland has the junior player numbers its West Auckland that has historically provided the most talent in NRL teams and is the largest fan base for the Warriors season members.

Only way another team outside of Auckland succeeds is with a huge amount of sustained financial support from the NRL or some rich supporter. We are talking about at least a decade of putting in $3-5 million a year with little to no return. In that time that team would have to be a success to gather supporters and start to become self sustainable.

In saying all that I dont think expansion is a good thing. We've seen with Super Rugby what happens when yoou dilute the competition too much. Instead of increasing the support base you actually diminish it as the end product isnt as entertaining...

Where would a team out west be based? With a capacity of only 3,000 seated, the Douglas Track and Field (next to Trusts Arena) certainly wouldn't be up to NRL standard. With the talk about three stadiums (Eden Park, Mt Smart and North Shore) being too much, I can't see Auckland Council through Auckland Regional Facilities) putting any money into it.

North Shore has a stadium but isn't the League stronghold that west Auckland is.

Sorry, but I can't see another Auckland based NRL side here unless they were going to "share" the facilities at Mt Smart with the Warriors and play there either on alternate weekends or as double headers.

 

[snake77]

I read an interview from Gus Gould when he was at the NZW, he thought a 2nd Auckland franchise made sense off the strength of the grassroots rugby league in the region - North Shore was the best place for it, Albany? Facilities out that side of the city was appealing.

Would that give them an incentive to finally finish the stadium in Albany?

I remember the stadium debate before the 2011 union world cup and the guy running it piped up saying they could host it and have 60k capacity it just isn't completed yet. His eyes would of lit up seeing the opportunity for a handout.

I live on the shore and a team based over here would be convenient. Not sure after supporting the Warriors since 95 I could jump ship. I'm stuck for life seeing this through. Going through the highs and lows will make the first premiership worth it.

 

[gREVUS]

I thought with 2 teams that it would be both play out of my smart but have both teams based elsewhere for training

 

[Worried2Death]

SI team could work based out of chch and a few games in Dunedin, I suspect an nrl team would be embraced here just as passionately as the Kiwis are when they play the Aussies, and it'd be island v island, perfect opportunity to tap that isolated south island fortress mentality if marketed right.

Build it and they'll come, it's a catchment market similar to the Cowboys for potential supporter base. There's a hearty base of league clubs but nowhere near the numbers to build an nrl team at this stage. I could be dreaming here, but nothing stopping them signing a squad from around the nrl like the Dolphins have and go from there. Just need the right coach, Craig Bellamy.

 

[mt.wellington]

Sorry, but I can't see another Auckland based NRL side here unless they were going to "share" the facilities at Mt Smart with the Warriors and play there either on alternate weekends or as double headers.

Definately wont be sharing Mt Smart. Moana Pacifica already own the top field by the main entrance. They are also renting the Warriors gym while they arent using it...

 

[Brother Faisal]

Wondering what you guys think if another NZ team was accepted into the NRL could it be similar to how a NY Yankees and NY Mets or a NY Giants or NY Jets is where two teams represent the same city with no real geographical boundaries in the city for each team other than the stadium. Similarly could you have a NZ warriors and an NZ orcas for example both based in Auckland but represent NZ as a whole? I just can’t see a Auckland warriors and say a Canterbury bulls working. The population numbers for Auckland would work better but could have both teams taking games to the rest of the country. I don’t see a Wellington or Christchurch based team working. Why not have two “NZ” national teams instead? Any thoughts?

 

[Brother Faisal]

wondering what you guys think if another NZ team was accepted into the NRL could it be similar to how a NY Yankees and NY Mets or a NY Giants or NY Jets is where two teams represent the same city with no real geographical boundaries in the city for each team other than the stadium. Similarly could you have a NZ warriors and an NZ orcas for example both based in Auckland but represent NZ as a whole? I just can’t see a Auckland warriors and say a Canterbury bulls working. The population numbers for Auckland would work better but could have both teams taking games to the rest of the country. I don’t see a Wellington or Christchurch based team working. Why not have two “NZ” national teams instead? Any thoughts?

 

[The Falcon]

wondering what you guys think if another NZ team was accepted into the NRL could it be similar to how a NY Yankees and NY Mets or a NY Giants or NY Jets is where two teams represent the same city with no real geographical boundaries in the city for each team other than the stadium. Similarly could you have a NZ warriors and an NZ orcas for example both based in Auckland but represent NZ as a whole? I just can’t see an Auckland warriors and say a Canterbury bulls working. The population numbers for Auckland would work better but could have both teams taking games to the rest of the country. I don’t see a Wellington or Christchurch based team working. Why not have two “NZ” national teams instead? Any thoughts?

I think logistically you are right about another Auckland based team because g the best chance for success with the playing numbers and sponsorship opportunities
I love to think a 2nd team based out of Christchurch would work but deep down I don’t think so even with a new covered stadium in the works.

 

[tajhay]

two teams represent the same city with no real geographical boundaries in the city for each team other than the stadium.

Wonder what the Warriors would feel about that. No doubt they would oppose a new team based in Auckland.

Would be interesting to see how many fans of the Warriors would shift over to a new franchise in NZ. For those of us from North Island, its harder for us to align with a South Island team. But if there was a new Auckland based team....and seeing how the club is currently going....