General NRL Expansion

[wrighty]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/03/27/new-nrl-strategic-plan-outlines-pathway-for-expansion/

This article is from March and this has come up before on this site but had trouble bumping threads from 2009.

"the NRL's new strategic plan outlining the pathway for aspiring franchises from Brisbane, Perth, PNG, New Zealand and Fiji to join the Telstra Premiership."

Interested in hearing people's views. One of the criteria is that you must be able to produce your own players rather than just importing all of them. Towards this end a second NZ franchise may struggle, and a PNG franchise may succeed? I am just guessing though

Anyway what are people's views on a wet wednesday evening.

 

[¿N. ig-mah¿]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/03/27/new-nrl-strategic-plan-outlines-pathway-for-expansion/

This article is from March and this has come up before on this site but had trouble bumping threads from 2009.

"the NRL's new strategic plan outlining the pathway for aspiring franchises from Brisbane, Perth, PNG, New Zealand and Fiji to join the Telstra Premiership."

Interested in hearing people's views. One of the criteria is that you must be able to produce your own players rather than just importing all of them. Towards this end a second NZ franchise may struggle, and a PNG franchise may succeed? I am just guessing though

Anyway what are people's views on a wet wednesday evening.

I dont think we have a lack of talent to supply a second team. Its well known that many, if not all of the Aussie clubs run talent scouting in NZ. Some even employ people solely to spot talent over here.

The Warriors have been quite lacking in talent development outside of Auckland. Im not sure of player numbers in and around Wellington, but I know there is plenty available in the South Island, and Canterbury in particular (who dominated Auckland many times in the past).

 

[bruce]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/03/27/new-nrl-strategic-plan-outlines-pathway-for-expansion/

This article is from March and this has come up before on this site but had trouble bumping threads from 2009.

"the NRL's new strategic plan outlining the pathway for aspiring franchises from Brisbane, Perth, PNG, New Zealand and Fiji to join the Telstra Premiership."

Interested in hearing people's views. One of the criteria is that you must be able to produce your own players rather than just importing all of them. Towards this end a second NZ franchise may struggle, and a PNG franchise may succeed? I am just guessing though

Anyway what are people's views on a wet wednesday evening.

The NRL need to sort out their money problems before they look at expansion. End of story.

 

[mrblonde]

Views From A Wet Auckland Wednesday Evening:

Since the 6-68 meltdown we had against Penrith in 2013, I've been "ghosting" other NRL unoffical fan forums. My original motive was that, basically, this here forum was in Total 100% I Have To Kill Every MotherF...er In The Warriors Mode that night and I wanted to see if losses made other fans just as nutbaggy as everyone else on here (except me, King of Calmness in Chaos ). Turns out they do.
Anyway, in my recent ghostings of a Manly forum, a fair number of them seem remarkably calm and cool with the idea of the Sea Eagles moving to Perth, Adelaide, wherever except NZ as the silver in their Silvertail is dwindling away at quite a rate: poor member facilities, Brookvale is a shithole, poor gym facilities etc. Helps that they hate the owners who apparantly aren't putting in any coin and the owners would probably sell the team if it left Sydney.
Basically, everybody - including everybody in all Sydney clubs - knows 9 is too many Sydney clubs to have in a 16 team comp. But, of course and I guess understandably, no-one wants to put their hand up and say "I'm bleeding money, gimme tree fiddy and I'll become the Perth Sea Eagles (as an example)." This is further complicated by the understandable reality that post the Shitty South Sydney Situation (Kenny Callender would love that) in 1999 when the NRL killed off the Rabbitohs only to have to let them back in again as of late 2001, the NRL cannot and will not instruct a team to merge or move. They basically have said they will sit and whistle merrily and watch a team die rather than put more money into struggling teams - hello, Titans and Knights as recent examples - than they have already.

My personal take - I think money-wise the NRL would be better off with relocation rather than expansion at this point in time. Relocation means a pre-existing club with most of, if not all of, it's existing players moving to Perth and continuing the good fight from there. Upside: The team might be better away from Sydney and have already NRL hardened players. Downside: No local juniors coming on for a fair while until pathways form. Expansion would mean Perth would be announced as the new team as of 2023, say. The NSWRL and/or the QRL are "politely requested" to let a Perth team join their competition/s and so when the Perth Westies start the NRL in 2023, there's a bunch of players who've played together, are local, but on the flip-side haven't played any NRL so will have their hands fill avoiding the wooden cooking utensil.

And, finally, no-one appears to have any faith in Beattie, Greenburg and co having the strategic nous to plan for expansion. See the lack of money in the coffers and the loan refusals as examples of this.

 

[bruce]

no-one appears to have any faith in Beattie, Greenburg

There seems to be unanimous lack of faith in them. My guess is Greenberg is fighting for his life. You have to wonder how much of this press release stuff is diversionary away from the $30 million blowout.

 

[wrighty]

I dont think we have a lack of talent to supply a second team. Its well known that many, if not all of the Aussie clubs run talent scouting in NZ. Some even employ people solely to spot talent over here.

The Warriors have been quite lacking in talent development outside of Auckland. Im not sure of player numbers in and around Wellington, but I know there is plenty available in the South Island, and Canterbury in particular (who dominated Auckland many times in the past).

Interesting,

As a radical idea could we ask that if there were 2 NZ sides, that all new Kiwi players had to consider playing for one of them as a first priority rather than considering Australian based teams.

Has anything like that been discussed before.

 

[wrighty]

The NRL need to sort out their money problems before they look at expansion. End of story.

No doubt. But expansion isn't pencilled in until 2023 at earliest.

 

[brightman]

NZ will struggle to supply a 2nd local team, Tongan team, Samoan team, Fijian t..

 

[Dunedin warrior]

I don’t think getting the talent for a 2nd kiwi team would be an issue. But unless they were doing extremely well hard to see them getting anything close to decent crowds in Wellington or Christchurch.

 

[wrighty]

I don’t think getting the talent for a 2nd kiwi team would be an issue. But unless they were doing extremely well hard to see them getting anything close to decent crowds in Wellington or Christchurch.

In one of the older threads I read, someone pushed for a combined Wellington / CHCH team that split it games between both centres.
The idea being crowds would be bigger if they were more rare in each city. The opposing voices to this idea said it would kill the season subscriber base.

I think in general that the way forward for the Warriors and all sports teams in New Zealand's is to not just have gate receipts and TV revenues as income streams. They need to form AFL style membership centres with their fans and sell expensive life membership packages with enhanced ability to interact with players.

 

[¿N. ig-mah¿]

Interesting,

As a radical idea could we ask that if there were 2 NZ sides, that all new Kiwi players had to consider playing for one of them as a first priority rather than considering Australian based teams.

Has anything like that been discussed before.

I think that would be a crazy idea. Any team in NZ needs to be run as the other clubs are. A professional organisation paying the best players they can to do the job. I dont want any team from NZ limiting themselves, and so would also not expect it from players either. It is about pathways for local talent. That will keep them here.

 

[Defence]

The thing about a sydney team relocating to Perth (or wherever) is that they would still play maybe 10 "away" games a year in Sydney anyway so it's not like their existing fan base are never going to get the chance to see them.

 

[brightman]

I think that would be a crazy idea. Any team in NZ needs to be run as the other clubs are. A professional organisation paying the best players they can to do the job. I dont want any team from NZ limiting themselves, and so would also not expect it from players either. It is about pathways for local talent. That will keep them here.

Gee then I guess the ARL up here in the BIG SMOKE will be overflowing with all the talented players much like their compatriots in Union do and give all the best ones away like we both currently do..

 

[Johnnyray]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/03/27/new-nrl-strategic-plan-outlines-pathway-for-expansion/

This article is from March and this has come up before on this site but had trouble bumping threads from 2009.

"the NRL's new strategic plan outlining the pathway for aspiring franchises from Brisbane, Perth, PNG, New Zealand and Fiji to join the Telstra Premiership."

Interested in hearing people's views. One of the criteria is that you must be able to produce your own players rather than just importing all of them. Towards this end a second NZ franchise may struggle, and a PNG franchise may succeed? I am just guessing though

Anyway what are people's views on a wet wednesday evening.

My views on this have always been same. In my opinion NRL needs to at least expand to twenty teams to match same number of teams in AFL so to be able to compete with them fully on more equal footing.

For me this all starts with Western Australia. With number of expat Afrikaans and Kiw's now living in Western Australia especially in Perth area, this should be number one place for expansion in NRL with goal in development is for them to be able to field their own Origin side 'New Holland' in twenty/thirty years in an expanded four team State Of Origin competition that also includes them and 'New Zealand'.

With this I would move Manly Sea Eagles to Fremantle and have Perth Pirates introduce into NRL. I would move Canterbury Bulldogs to Adelaide. I would rename Melbourne Storm as Melbourne Army and have original foundation club Newtown Jets relocate the team to Wellington where there's also a place called Newtown make them call themselves Wellington Newtown Jets. I would move Sharks out of Shire to Rockhampton in QLD and bring Bears back to North Sydney. With Central Coast in NSW being single largest rugby league catchment area in Australia without an NRL team, I would introduce team there, Central Coast Cossacks. I wouldn't include a second Brisbane team only because they've already got one with the Gold Coast Titans. That would be my twenty team NRL competition with new teams either expanded or relocated to places as diverse as Adelaide, Perth, Fremantle, Rockhampton, Wellington, North Sydney and the Central Coast. It's never going to happen but dude that's the sort of thing I would like to see them do in NRL ...

 

[matiunz]

Interesting,

As a radical idea could we ask that if there were 2 NZ sides, that all new Kiwi players had to consider playing for one of them as a first priority rather than considering Australian based teams.

Has anything like that been discussed before.

I thought like that a while back where say clubs had an overseas player quota to encourage/support NZ players to play for an NZ franchise and keep local talent in NZ. Couple of problems is you’d likely see a couple of “fence” NZ eligible players not declare for NZ to not limit their playing options, also non Australian players are quite desirable for Australian clubs as there’s no chance of losing them over the origin period. I think a few international players suddenly became English when super league had Quotas.

As for Expansion I’d like to see 4 teams admitted
Perth- Reds weren’t given enough of a chance to thrive.
NZ 2 probably based in CHCH with 4 games in Wellington(Maybe more with a crowd sharing deal with an Aus team). Originally would have swapped with Wells having more games but I think Canterbury would get out and support the team more so plus the whole North vs South thing would add more spice.
Adelaide- New market helps get a national footprint. Rams had decent support first year but abandoned it once their fate was sealed. South Australians are pretty fierce supporters of their local team plus would get a bit more excitement in Melbourne with a rivalry. Maybe even take a game or 2 to Hobart.
Darwin/PNG- Realistically can’t base a team in PNG Darwin is the next closest option. Currently no national comp has a team there could be a good way to stay ahead of the competition- maybe even link them to the islands to add more support.

I know Brisbane is a popular option but I’d like to see the game grow rather than flooding current markets

 

[matiunz]

My views on this have always been same. In my opinion NRL needs to at least expand to twenty teams to match same number of teams in AFL so to be able to compete with them fully on more equal footing.

Doesn’t AFL have 18 teams?

 

[tajhay]

I think there needs to be prolonged success with the warriors before a second nz team be considered. We were building a strong case for it on that fateful grand final day where all 3 of our sides competed in their respective grand finals. But the last 6 years have deflated that balloon for now. We have been inconsistent and embarrassing. Once we can achieve success such as the recent storm, rooters etc teams with strings of top 4 finishes, then we should restart the conversation. Also dont think the Warriors will give up their entire territory that easily. There are only so much corporate dollars going around....to have it potentially cut in half...for a fresher, newer, no stigma brand...

Id love to see a second nz team in the comp, but for now im more excited about the prospect of a fiji/pacific islands, png team in the comp. But logistically those potential bids have far greater issues...oh well one can hope. An expansion in those areas would do more greater good for the game, than a team in nz. In the short/mid term anyway.

 

[razzrillinger]

To start I'd like to see the Wests Tigers and Sea Eagles move out of Sydney.
The first two places that make the most sense currently are a second Brisbane team and Perth.

Next on the agenda for me would be a second NZ team and Adelaide.
That would make 18 teams. I would push for a competition where you play each team once with that number of teams.

There are more than enough kids playing rugby in NZ for the NRL to poach, we have 5 Super Rugby franchises and a very competitive national competition in a relatively small country. I'm not sure why they don't rock the boat more with rugby in NZ.

They could very easily make any player who has played for the All Blacks/Wallabies/Springboks exempt from the salary cap for their first season for example.

 

[Sup42]

I'm fiercely against an argument that Auckland needs to be strong before other centers have an opportunity.

That is the same inward looking view that Sydney clubs leverage to justify an argument when they perceive threat to their existence.

The Warriors could take fifty years to get to a level of a Melbourne...that is the reality of that competition.

It would then seem, after twenty years. grossly unfair to link the Warriors ill fortunes with the opportunities of a new group.

Competition for players is already been outsourced to Australia, ever increasingly inward looking Auckland are now owned by their own leagues organization and are Auckland Bias in their recriuting ( I have no issue with that it is a geographical reality within a local market place, but this also supports what I am saying about the regions deserving a clean slate from the Warriors fate).

Pre the Warriors the Auckland side peaked in it's prowess (beating a full strength Australian touring side, a side with two immortals in their prime).

Aucklands peak was fueled by strong internal competition, always has been...when the regions are strong, our national game is strong.

That is logic...rather than the jingoistic cliche's (for example 'when Auckland Rugby is strong the All Blacks are Strong).

Christchurch seems the most realistic and sports culturally best choice for a second franchise, they are steeped in sporting success and have a different culture to the ill fated Auckland NRL side.

To be clear I don't think that expansion for expansions sake is a good idea at the present time.

The NRL would need to boost its new franchises by culling the Sydney comp to four teams, North, South, East, West, can it be that hard ?

That would see a large number of players looking tor opportunities in the new Franchises.

The new Franchises should be given five year set up exemptions, we all saw how successful giving Melbourne Cap exemptions at the beginning turned out for them.

Under those conditions a South Island team could thrive quickly (they would only need to be constant top eight quality to get the love of the people....New Zealanders understand winning the NRL is much harder than a NZ team winning Super Rugby titles...for different reasons...NZ Union is like Australia with League...the fiercest competition is within...the odds of a NZ team winning are much higher...another tick against not having strong internal competition).

Lastly the Warriors would be advantaged by expansion...they need internal competiton, and player trading would be easier to sell locally....less travel...the South Island team would sell lots of jerseys...the Warriors have already proved in NZ if your team is shit..their are four million suckers who will buy your jersey for street cred.

 

[Defence]

Darwin/PNG- Realistically can’t base a team in PNG Darwin is the next closest option. Currently no national comp has a team there could be a good way to stay ahead of the competition- maybe even link them to the islands to add more support.

I had the same idea but was thinking to base them in cairns which is closer to port morsbey than Darwin and would mean less distance to travel for their away games too.
They all live in cairns and take the one hour flight to png for home games.