Post Match NRL 2022 - Round 3 - Tigers vs Warriors Post Match [Round 3, 2022]

[Mr Dragon]

View attachment 46764

It was way forward and another thing if the guy who caught the ball had passed it left there was a huge hole in the middle for the Tigers to drive a truck through You see how that pass drew the two Warriors over to him, i see a lot of that with the Warriors, they focus on the ball instead of filling the gaps on defence, Lodge did the same thing in the first Tigers try

 

[Wrighty]

It was way forward and another thing if the guy who caught the ball had passed it left there was a huge hole in the middle for the Tigers to drive a truck through You see how that pass drew the two Warriors over to him, i see a lot of that with the Warriors, they focus on the ball instead of filling the gaps on defence, Lodge did the same thing in the first Tigers try

This is a very interesting and insightful answer. Have you played club level league?

 

[Wrighty]

I have a slightly different take. I think last year was about building from within after a disrupted preseason, and this year is now about accountability. If players aren’t meeting the expectations it is pointed out, and if they are they are earning some praise for it.

I like that answer and prefer it.
I am a bit malleable on Brown as everyone's take on him seems to ring true at some level.
I find it hard to get a definitive position to him and I guess my jury is still out to a degree yet find myself agreeing with each compelling and well reasoned synopses on him. Even if some of those synopses are diametrically opposed.

I do like him so your take resonates with me

 

[francis]

It was way forward and another thing if the guy who caught the ball had passed it left there was a huge hole in the middle for the Tigers to drive a truck through You see how that pass drew the two Warriors over to him, i see a lot of that with the Warriors, they focus on the ball instead of filling the gaps on defence, Lodge did the same thing in the first Tigers try

we seem to have our spacing wrong alot of the time js

 

[Swanny]

I like that answer and prefer it.
I am a bit malleable on Brown as everyone's take on him seems to ring true at some level.
I find it hard to get a definitive position to him and I guess my jury is still out to a degree yet find myself agreeing with each compelling and well reasoned synopses on him. Even if some of those synopses are diametrically opposed.

I do like him so your take resonates with me

It’s always a difficult one. There are probably only a couple of coaches who are immune from criticism, and one of them in Trent Robinson is having a tough start to the year. Hell even when Ivan was here he had plenty of detractors, but we would give anything to have him back now, despite his inability to turn the Tigers around and having failed in his initial stint at Penrith.

The thing I do like about Brown is that he is willing to back and develop his younger players, which is crucial to future success. The Berry case is an interesting one also. If we are going to convince top talent from union that there is a pathway to success coming to the Warriors, then we really need guys like that to succeed and show that they are going to be given the chance to do so, therefore it is a long term career option.

We know the Warriors job is a tough gig. I don’t think one Covid effected year and 3 games is long enough to change the managements mind on the reasons they hired him in the first place. I think he will see out his contract, because if he doesn’t what kind of new coach are you going to attract?

 

[Five&Last]

What do you think of Aitken at 11? He has a hell of a work rate and is good defensively, but I thought last night he was impacting the attack on that edge massively. I thought he was drifting very wide, and a few times coming out of our own end he ignored an overlap when Berry and the winger had good depth

Good work rate in terms of defence and yardage, but there's a reason his side cant put points on. Can't pass well enough to play centre and isn't enough of a threat at running into holes to play second row. Wont be hugely missed next year imo.

 

[Gizzyfan]

Just watched the replay. The old French Union saying of there being two kinds of rugby players, those who play the piano, and those that move the piano.
At least one Half has to take control, both are trying hard and are at the line all the time, one needs to step back and consider options.

The defence was good, especially that last 10 minutes or so. However on attack they stopped running onto the ball and didn't respect possession. The effort is there, the execution wasn't.

Summary, two bad teams having an off day.

 

[Mr Dragon]

we seem to have our spacing wrong alot of the time js

The defence is a big concern, if we can see it you think the coaches would see it

 

[sballer7]

I dont know about you guys, but id love to see Browny patrolling the sidelines, slapping the piss out of the likes of Addin Fonua-Blake, Lodge and Kodi. Its the only thing that wouldve made that game bearable.

 

[Peewee]

……. We are up to 12th on the table - somethings brewing

Same old story.
Could be 8th. Except for points differential.
Same as last year.

 

[Canonball]

Just watched the replay. The old French Union saying of there being two kinds of rugby players, those who play the piano, and those that move the piano.
At least one Half has to take control, both are trying hard and are at the line all the time, one needs to step back and consider options.

The defence was good, especially that last 10 minutes or so. However on attack they stopped running onto the ball and didn't respect possession. The effort is there, the execution wasn't.

Summary, two bad teams having an off day.

Defence on the right at the end of the first half was not good - had a look at that on replay too - two breaks by the tigers - the first a direct result of Pompey then arthars falling off a one one against Toa - for the second (the one that ends with Walsh smashing an offbalance Toa into touch) it was Siro and Pompey coming in on a second man play then being outflanked -- the common denominator to both (and I hate to say this as it's almost a cliche) was the man on the inside not marking up or committing until too late -- that man: Kodi

 

[Wrighty]

It’s always a difficult one. There are probably only a couple of coaches who are immune from criticism, and one of them in Trent Robinson is having a tough start to the year. Hell even when Ivan was here he had plenty of detractors, but we would give anything to have him back now, despite his inability to turn the Tigers around and having failed in his initial stint at Penrith.

The thing I do like about Brown is that he is willing to back and develop his younger players, which is crucial to future success. The Berry case is an interesting one also. If we are going to convince top talent from union that there is a pathway to success coming to the Warriors, then we really need guys like that to succeed and show that they are going to be given the chance to do so, therefore it is a long term career option.

We know the Warriors job is a tough gig. I don’t think one Covid effected year and 3 games is long enough to change the managements mind on the reasons they hired him in the first place. I think he will see out his contract, because if he doesn’t what kind of new coach are you going to attract?

I like the idea of rallying behind Nathan Brown as a general theme
Have been thinking about your and 6 Agains posts this afternoon
Everyone is correct which is why I agree with all sides.

I have a light hearted comment to share

Brown is a little bit country but also a little bit rock and roll
Brown is a bit Dr Jekyl and a bit Mr Hyde

Regarding creating accountability this year by his press conference honesty...I have also had a think about that.
In my management experience we are taught to:
Praise in public and criticise in private

I think he should holler at Rocco Berry one on one behind closed doors and talk at a high level about faults in press conferences without getting down to individuals

Overall he is my favourite coach I have ever had for a team I have supported out of cricket, union or league.
His basic solution for winning rugby league is to put a team on the paddock that is better on paper than the other team can put out.

From my betting days when I used to bet on Super Rugby each week. The biggest impact to team performance was injuries and guys coming back from injury that week. Getting Anto Leniert Brown back in the line up or not would be the definitive element of the chiefs winning that week and the news paper articles about how training was going that week or a particular motivation for the game meant nothing.
Talented players win sports games. Not coaches with clever tactics or well thought out defensive patterns.
Nathan Brown gets that so he although he focuses on all aspects of coaching: player development, tactics, defence, ball handling, strategies, shape etc - however his number one focus is building a roster and trying to win by having the best players.
The all blacks win because they have the best players not because their coaches are genuises.
If you put Nathan Brown in charge of the Storm this year instead of Craig Bellamy and the Storm would still finish top 4. If you put Stephen Kearney in charge of the Storm this year and they would still finish top 4. There are limits. If you put David Kidwell in charge of the storm then they would be spoon.

I would like us to keep Nathan for at least this season. And watch him more. I get the feeling is he learning and adjusting still to what works and what doesn't work as an NRL coach. I think he has head coach figured out as he showed in Super League just not head NRL coach which is a different and more challenging dynamic.

Some jobs that are very senior can take 5 years to learn. I once had a job where it took me 5 years to figure out how to do it it was so complex. It was project management of solution concept unknown projects where you would go into a situation and be told a problem and have to come up with the answer yourself and implement that answer while the whole organisation watches you because it is a high profile project. It was extremely difficult to learn and my friend found an article that showed that our role took years to learn for anybody.

Brown is leading in a way a solution concept unknown project where the media watches his every move. He needs to figure out the problem that the Warriors have, come up with options, look at his organisations constraints, his organisations competencies. and implement a solution that triangulates all of that in an environment that wants results right now and wants and expects results now.

It is also a hard one because the answer is not just give every coach 5 years to learn and turn into a Bellamy or a Bennett. Because some never will, in fact, most won't.
The ones that do get the cerebral part right early or show signs that they can. The soft stuff like not critcising in public might be a hard lesson he has to learn but that can come later. If you start with the soft skills only the harder league technical stuff and player discernment will never come.

I do have concerns about his player discernment and that is my biggest knock on him. Had Arthars played game one ahead of Vailea then we might have won. And I thought that Arthars showed well in the trial and had more experience so that was a head scratcher.
The ongoing play of Aitken at second row is also a red flag in terms of discernment. You can play a hunch but you need to abandon it at some point.

I am watching. He has now figured out that Arthars is the guy. So that is a tick.

No conclusion to this post other than I firmly think at least this season for Brown if not next as well based on the fact he gets the concept of how to build a winning team better than most other coaches I have seen in my life.

 

[wizards rage]

If you put Nathan Brown in charge of the Storm this year instead of Craig Bellamy and the Storm would still finish top 4. If you put Stephen Kearney in charge of the Storm this year and they would still finish top 4. There are limits. If you put David Kidwell in charge of the storm then they would be spoon.

Great informative post but I respectfully disagree with this part. Just like in business an influential figure with vision will outperform a plodder and make a huge difference to a companies performance. A great leader (coach) can be a game changer. A coach can maybe ride off the prior work of the coach before them, but in the longer term a coach adds (or detracts) significant value.

Bellamy makes players better and they get worse when they leave the Storm. His systems and knowledge is irreplaceable. Bennett was the same. Alex Ferguson, etc. A great coach makes the team and players better.

NZ has been blessed with talent. We have never had the coaching that can make a different and develop the players into elite players. If it was just about assembling talent, we would be dominate the competition.

 

[tajhay]

If it was just about assembling talent, we would be dominate the competition.

Which years would we have dominated based on a squad on paper?

 

[PNG Kiwi]

I like the idea of rallying behind Nathan Brown as a general theme
Have been thinking about your and 6 Agains posts this afternoon
Everyone is correct which is why I agree with all sides.

I have a light hearted comment to share

Brown is a little bit country but also a little bit rock and roll
Brown is a bit Dr Jekyl and a bit Mr Hyde

Regarding creating accountability this year by his press conference honesty...I have also had a think about that.
In my management experience we are taught to:
Praise in public and criticise in private

I think he should holler at Rocco Berry one on one behind closed doors and talk at a high level about faults in press conferences without getting down to individuals

Overall he is my favourite coach I have ever had for a team I have supported out of cricket, union or league.
His basic solution for winning rugby league is to put a team on the paddock that is better on paper than the other team can put out.

From my betting days when I used to bet on Super Rugby each week. The biggest impact to team performance was injuries and guys coming back from injury that week. Getting Anto Leniert Brown back in the line up or not would be the definitive element of the chiefs winning that week and the news paper articles about how training was going that week or a particular motivation for the game meant nothing.
Talented players win sports games. Not coaches with clever tactics or well thought out defensive patterns.
Nathan Brown gets that so he although he focuses on all aspects of coaching: player development, tactics, defence, ball handling, strategies, shape etc - however his number one focus is building a roster and trying to win by having the best players.
The all blacks win because they have the best players not because their coaches are genuises.
If you put Nathan Brown in charge of the Storm this year instead of Craig Bellamy and the Storm would still finish top 4. If you put Stephen Kearney in charge of the Storm this year and they would still finish top 4. There are limits. If you put David Kidwell in charge of the storm then they would be spoon.

I would like us to keep Nathan for at least this season. And watch him more. I get the feeling is he learning and adjusting still to what works and what doesn't work as an NRL coach. I think he has head coach figured out as he showed in Super League just not head NRL coach which is a different and more challenging dynamic.

Some jobs that are very senior can take 5 years to learn. I once had a job where it took me 5 years to figure out how to do it it was so complex. It was project management of solution concept unknown projects where you would go into a situation and be told a problem and have to come up with the answer yourself and implement that answer while the whole organisation watches you because it is a high profile project. It was extremely difficult to learn and my friend found an article that showed that our role took years to learn for anybody.

Brown is leading in a way a solution concept unknown project where the media watches his every move. He needs to figure out the problem that the Warriors have, come up with options, look at his organisations constraints, his organisations competencies. and implement a solution that triangulates all of that in an environment that wants results right now and wants and expects results now.

It is also a hard one because the answer is not just give every coach 5 years to learn and turn into a Bellamy or a Bennett. Because some never will, in fact, most won't.
The ones that do get the cerebral part right early or show signs that they can. The soft stuff like not critcising in public might be a hard lesson he has to learn but that can come later. If you start with the soft skills only the harder league technical stuff and player discernment will never come.

I do have concerns about his player discernment and that is my biggest knock on him. Had Arthars played game one ahead of Vailea then we might have won. And I thought that Arthars showed well in the trial and had more experience so that was a head scratcher.
The ongoing play of Aitken at second row is also a red flag in terms of discernment. You can play a hunch but you need to abandon it at some point.

I am watching. He has now figured out that Arthars is the guy. So that is a tick.

No conclusion to this post other than I firmly think at least this season for Brown if not next as well based on the fact he gets the concept of how to build a winning team better than most other coaches I have seen in my life.

My take on what you said it takes time to get your head around certain jobs.

Whilst I agree with that in theory Brown has been around a while, be it as head coach in other clubs. Newer to the Warriors yes, and all its complex issues,but that is fitting in not understanding your job

I feel his lack of credible assistants isn't helping, and as much as I applaud his promotion of youth it needs to develop.

 

[wizards rage]

Which years would we have dominated based on a squad on paper?

2017 we had a relatively strong squad - the kiwis spine (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Shaun Johnson, Foran and bully) plus experienced internationals in Mannering, Matalino, Lillyman, Vatuvei, peak Fusitua, etc.

Arguably had a squad to dominate over many other teams and should have been top 8 - finished 13th…

Many strong squads on paper only look average on reflection after we see them on the field.

 

[Noitall]

I don’t think Campbelltown has been a happy hunting ground for us in the past either. We’ve had some hidings from the tigers there.

 

[#robbiemears]

I like the idea of rallying behind Nathan Brown as a general theme
Have been thinking about your and 6 Agains posts this afternoon
Everyone is correct which is why I agree with all sides.

I have a light hearted comment to share

Brown is a little bit country but also a little bit rock and roll
Brown is a bit Dr Jekyl and a bit Mr Hyde

Regarding creating accountability this year by his press conference honesty...I have also had a think about that.
In my management experience we are taught to:
Praise in public and criticise in private

I think he should holler at Rocco Berry one on one behind closed doors and talk at a high level about faults in press conferences without getting down to individuals

Overall he is my favourite coach I have ever had for a team I have supported out of cricket, union or league.
His basic solution for winning rugby league is to put a team on the paddock that is better on paper than the other team can put out.

From my betting days when I used to bet on Super Rugby each week. The biggest impact to team performance was injuries and guys coming back from injury that week. Getting Anto Leniert Brown back in the line up or not would be the definitive element of the chiefs winning that week and the news paper articles about how training was going that week or a particular motivation for the game meant nothing.
Talented players win sports games. Not coaches with clever tactics or well thought out defensive patterns.
Nathan Brown gets that so he although he focuses on all aspects of coaching: player development, tactics, defence, ball handling, strategies, shape etc - however his number one focus is building a roster and trying to win by having the best players.
The all blacks win because they have the best players not because their coaches are genuises.
If you put Nathan Brown in charge of the Storm this year instead of Craig Bellamy and the Storm would still finish top 4. If you put Stephen Kearney in charge of the Storm this year and they would still finish top 4. There are limits. If you put David Kidwell in charge of the storm then they would be spoon.

I would like us to keep Nathan for at least this season. And watch him more. I get the feeling is he learning and adjusting still to what works and what doesn't work as an NRL coach. I think he has head coach figured out as he showed in Super League just not head NRL coach which is a different and more challenging dynamic.

Some jobs that are very senior can take 5 years to learn. I once had a job where it took me 5 years to figure out how to do it it was so complex. It was project management of solution concept unknown projects where you would go into a situation and be told a problem and have to come up with the answer yourself and implement that answer while the whole organisation watches you because it is a high profile project. It was extremely difficult to learn and my friend found an article that showed that our role took years to learn for anybody.

Brown is leading in a way a solution concept unknown project where the media watches his every move. He needs to figure out the problem that the Warriors have, come up with options, look at his organisations constraints, his organisations competencies. and implement a solution that triangulates all of that in an environment that wants results right now and wants and expects results now.

It is also a hard one because the answer is not just give every coach 5 years to learn and turn into a Bellamy or a Bennett. Because some never will, in fact, most won't.
The ones that do get the cerebral part right early or show signs that they can. The soft stuff like not critcising in public might be a hard lesson he has to learn but that can come later. If you start with the soft skills only the harder league technical stuff and player discernment will never come.

I do have concerns about his player discernment and that is my biggest knock on him. Had Arthars played game one ahead of Vailea then we might have won. And I thought that Arthars showed well in the trial and had more experience so that was a head scratcher.
The ongoing play of Aitken at second row is also a red flag in terms of discernment. You can play a hunch but you need to abandon it at some point.

I am watching. He has now figured out that Arthars is the guy. So that is a tick.

No conclusion to this post other than I firmly think at least this season for Brown if not next as well based on the fact he gets the concept of how to build a winning team better than most other coaches I have seen in my life.

Putting aside his near 200 games as a Super League Head Coach, Brownie has coached more than 270 NRL games. He's hardly 'learning and adjusting still to what works and what doesn't work as an NRL coach'. He's actually amongst the most experienced coaches in the NRL at the moment. His winning record since he returned from the Super League is absolutely atrocious (around 30%). Granted he's taken over basketcase clubs, but that was his choice and he was appointed in those roles to move the needle in a positive way. No matter which way you look at it, the performance on Friday night was dreadful. If that, along with last season's debacle, makes Brownie your favourite coach, then I admire your optimism.

 

[john nick]

I don’t think Campbelltown has been a happy hunting ground for us in the past either. We’ve had some hidings from the tigers there.

I am one of the worst losers when it comes to the Warriors and feel everything goes against us.
Speaking with my mate from the Gold Coast today and he is absolutely gutted by the Titans. Leading 22 to zero at halftime against the Raiders and getting beaten.
At least we Warriors had a win

 

[Noitall]

I am one of the worst losers when it comes to the Warriors and feel everything goes against us.
Speaking with my mate from the Gold Coast today and he is absolutely gutted by the Titans. Leading 22 to zero at halftime against the Raiders and getting beaten.
At least we Warriors had a win

And I’m watching a team who’s confidence is hopefully rock bottom for next week. Reynolds hasn’t been able to a combination at all.