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Vs

01 Jan 1970 12:00
minute

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6Again

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 1, 2020
1,014
So, I was doing a little bit of research and decided to stop, as it’s such an obvious part of the game that most of us already know, but…

If your front rowers don’t make any meters, you’re going to struggle to win a game.

The last 4 weeks, out of the 32 winning teams, 31 have had props running for more than 100m. Most teams have several running for over 100, and at least one big meter eater of 150+ per game.

The last 6 games we’ve had 1 player run for JUST over 100m 3 times - all Kane Evans.

It’s not a fluke that teams like Cowboys and Tigers, who are similar in regards to their front rowers output are in a similar situation to us. What shits me is that our players can’t step up with adversity. Last week against Sea Eagles, Passeka goes down for them, so Keppie stands up and makes 180m! We don’t have any one like that. Our players continue to plod along and make between 40-80 meters a game and hope that someone else does the work.

We can’t rely solely on Addin Fonua-Blake to do this every time, we need more from these guys
Agree, my take on this is that sides who play more direct through the middle get on a roll because our contact isn’t where it should be for a period and our props in particular gas out. Ken and Roger end up with over 20 carries and our props are lucky if they each make 10 runs in a game.

On Jamayne Tounua-Brown, he‘s well overdue now for time back in State Cup. He’s barely getting post contact meters and is getting wrestled onto his back in almost every tackle with ease.
 

Tragic

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 27, 2016
4,626
Kumeu
Even when Addin Fonua-Blake is back we need at least one more prop that can make hard yardage and play the ball quick, Addin Fonua-Blake makes em all look good by getting us on the front foot but when he isnt on or we get an injury we need someone more solid than what we have. Evans is OK and I would keep Leeson Ah-Mau but the others aren't pulling their weight.

Bunty is a fan favourite because he runs hard but he has little impact and gets few yards, he is actually a good hole runner but the job is to make the holes - wouldnt renew for 2022 at this stage.
Leeson Ah-Mau - great defence and a good foil for Evans or Addin Fonua-Blake who take the first hit up, when out there with anyone who aint making metres with the first carry he is kaka in attack. Getting on a bit tho so not many years left in him.
Jamayne Tounua-Brown - pretty good defender but nothing on attack - seeya later.
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,345
tauranga
Agree, my take on this is that sides who play more direct through the middle get on a roll because our contact isn’t where it should be for a period and our props in particular gas out. Ken and Roger end up with over 20 carries and our props are lucky if they each make 10 runs in a game.

On Jamayne Tounua-Brown, he‘s well overdue now for time back in State Cup. He’s barely getting post contact meters and is getting wrestled onto his back in almost every tackle with ease.
Agreed .We will be much better when Addin Fonua-Blake returns as Ben Murdoch-Masila is making yardage now properly fit
 

Tragic

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 27, 2016
4,626
Kumeu

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,345
tauranga

Toookey

1st Grade Fringe
May 3, 2021
566
Ben Murdoch-Masila would make a great addition to our middle, but jeeze hes looking great on an edge. 5 tries this year from hitting half a gap on those edges, and off loading to boot. He’s looking great now he’s fully fit, I’m not sure I’d change that.

With Addin Fonua-Blake, Tohu Harris, Evans and Ben Murdoch-Masila making meters each game I think we’re going to be okay moving forward. I really like what Curran’s doing on an edge too actually. I’d give Jazz about 40 minutes (maybe 30 of BMMs and 10 of Curran’s), and if we were able to have Ale come on for 25 minutes and just throw his weight around, I think our forwards are looking like quite a strength for us
 

kurgal

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 18, 2013
421
Soward continues to see promise where I don't - but, good on him!

And I agree with the following: "Reece Walsh needs to be in the starting side. I'm not sure where, but he's just too good to be on the interchange."
 
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BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
9,250
So, I was doing a little bit of research and decided to stop, as it’s such an obvious part of the game that most of us already know, but…

If your front rowers don’t make any meters, you’re going to struggle to win a game.

The last 4 weeks, out of the 32 winning teams, 31 have had props running for more than 100m. Most teams have several running for over 100, and at least one big meter eater of 150+ per game.

The last 6 games we’ve had 1 player run for JUST over 100m 3 times - all Kane Evans.

It’s not a fluke that teams like Cowboys and Tigers, who are similar in regards to their front rowers output are in a similar situation to us. What shits me is that our players can’t step up with adversity. Last week against Sea Eagles, Passeka goes down for them, so Keppie stands up and makes 180m! We don’t have any one like that. Our players continue to plod along and make between 40-80 meters a game and hope that someone else does the work.

We can’t rely solely on Addin Fonua-Blake to do this every time, we need more from these guys

what your thoughts on our wingers Mark?
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,729
Hence why I said move him more infield in the attacking sets and have someone fast out wide, who else at the club is gonna get us those 202m metres. You literally missed the point of my post
ok heres the thing, (and i cant believe i am saying this as it was used against me for years in the manu debates). Moving him in isnt going to net you 202 m per game. The role is different and he will have to train to adjust. then when he is up to speed and in the role, he still wont get 202 m of ball return as he will now be just another forward, and a lot lighter than some. So does he put beef on or lose weight, the physical changes and the changes to the job will dictate how he will be used.
But i agree he is not up to the job, so no i didnt miss your point i just disagree with it.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,729
Only have read the first page, but the Brown hate is a bit bullshit IMO. We let in 4 tries in 13 minutes, through errors, penalties in our own half and some bad tackling. You can't give top 4 sides like Parra that much ball on our line and survive. To only blame the coach is lazy.

2 weeks in a row we have been blown off the park in 15 minute spells, only to push back for a late charge. I think a lot of the errors in defence comes down to chemistry, there does seem to be a lot of chopping and changing, I'm struggling to keep up with who is in our top forward pack. Injuries haven't helped. Aitken back will help, and moving Tohu Harris to second row is another good move, which we saw in this game. Just shores up an edge a bit, and he has the skill to get the ball to his centre.

We certainly need to start Walsh somehow.. Maybe putting him on the wing and do what we saw today will work. He is our best kicker and tackle breaker, he has to have 80.
Its not hate, i just see Brown making mistakes and call him out for it, just like i would any other player in the team. His position doesnt make him immune to comment, it should make him more responsible not less.

If Brown had simply told them to hold the ball and keep it simple for the first 15mins of this game, then they wouldn't have had a massive lead thrown on them. Play loose and fast after the opposition wear down a bit, not when they are all fresh on the park.

If he had stayed in the changing rooms last week and talked about what to do if Payten changes up the way he plays then they wouldnt have been under so much pressure in the second half and nearly blown a massive lead most other teams would have taken and put 50 on the opposition.

And Walsh not starting, actually i agree with that...
but all the rest of the chopping and changing that's all on him.
 
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jmb_31

1st Grade Fringe
Feb 27, 2021
314
ok heres the thing, (and i cant believe i am saying this as it was used against me for years in the manu debates). Moving him in isnt going to net you 202 m per game. The role is different and he will have to train to adjust. then when he is up to speed and in the role, he still wont get 202 m of ball return as he will now be just another forward, and a lot lighter than some. So does he put beef on or lose weight, the physical changes and the changes to the job will dictate how he will be used.
But i agree he is not up to the job, so no i didnt miss your point i just disagree with it.
And the problem is I don't really see anyone who can take over right at this point, i'm excited for Ratuva though. All our wingers are of the same mould and I can't see Brown dropping him for someone else after the Kosi experience. I'm personally not opposed at all to dropping Ken for a week or two to reserves to see if he can get some spark back.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,729
And the problem is I don't really see anyone who can take over right at this point, i'm excited for Ratuva though. All our wingers are of the same mould and I can't see Brown dropping him for someone else after the Kosi experience. I'm personally not opposed at all to dropping Ken for a week or two to reserves to see if he can get some spark back.
i read somewhere that he had a sternum injury and was playing through it, but couldnt see any padding. I hope thats not the case as if hes injured and not able to give his best he shouldnt be out there. No disrespect to the big fella but I want to see more from him. or a replacement with speed.
 
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pleatedpantspete

1st Grade Fringe
Oct 9, 2012
345
ok heres the thing, (and i cant believe i am saying this as it was used against me for years in the manu debates). Moving him in isnt going to net you 202 m per game. The role is different and he will have to train to adjust. then when he is up to speed and in the role, he still wont get 202 m of ball return as he will now be just another forward, and a lot lighter than some. So does he put beef on or lose weight, the physical changes and the changes to the job will dictate how he will be used.
But i agree he is not up to the job, so no i didnt miss your point i just disagree with it.
Manu, aka a good prop wing, took metres that weren’t on offer, and with depth was hard to stop within ten metres.
Ken takes the metres that are there, no more, and as we’ve seen in the last games, about as potent as a childless uncle sleeping on a pull out couch - zero penetration.
manu could have probably stepped right into the middle, ken, not so much.
which is to say, I think I agree with you
 

jmb_31

1st Grade Fringe
Feb 27, 2021
314
i read somewhere that he had a sternum injury and was playing through it, but couldnt see any padding. I hope thats not the case as if hes injured and not able to give his best he shouldnt be out there. No disrespect to the big fella but I want to see more from him. or a replacement with speed.
Yeah I've been thinking it's strange. He used to go into contact much harder, its almost like he's labouring into the defensive line now
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,729
Manu, aka a good prop wing, took metres that weren’t on offer, and with depth was hard to stop within ten metres.
Ken takes the metres that are there, no more, and as we’ve seen in the last games, about as potent as a childless uncle sleeping on a pull out couch - zero penetration.
manu could have probably stepped right into the middle, ken, not so much.
which is to say, I think I agree with you
i think so 2
 

Panther

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 13, 2016
531
Maumalo does heaps of meter because the opposition kick to him knowing he is not a treat. Powerful but easily contained. It’s actually a negative that the opposition doesn’t try to avoid him but picks him out...
Roger Tuivasa-Sheck is 15th in the league for kick return metres. Ken is 19th. The Warriors get few metres out of kick returns as the opposition is already in such good field position they have a good defensive line 10m or less from the kick receiver. Most of their yards are coming from high involvement in one out hit ups early in sets. Like you say no one sees them as a threat and there are no support runners or deceptive play to give them reason think otherwise.

There was one set around half time where Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Aitken and another player took runs from dummy half, they made yards, it looked like they might find a hole behind the ruck, play the balls were fast from round the legs tackles. Just wish we could see more of it. One out running is so 2019.
 
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