Post Match NRL 2020 - Round 11 - Warriors vs Roosters Post Match Discussion

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01 Jan 1970 12:00
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With my tin foil hat firmly on - It was a stitch up to select him to deceive the warriors into never dropping him.

As paranoid as that sounds, as admittedly plain dumb as that sounds, have always thought that, he was a rookie at the time he was named bench player of the year to boot.

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck was flabbergasted when they announced him.
That is the junkyard dog you are talking about then!😂
 
No one in this team other than Jacko has the hard competitive attitude which says pick me. Maybe Lawton would be 2nd and perhaps Jazz for all his warts.

The rest just go about what they're told to do without question or without saying I can compete better because I am better.

Not sure why we have all these nice guys in our team who are happy to lose every week.
 
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Arguing about Herbert vs Pompey is like choosing which nut you're willing to have removed - there is no good option.

My memory isn't short - never rated Chanel Harris-Tavita that highly. His ceiling is Thomas Leulaui.

I'd take one Hetherington over 3 Burr's and a Tevaga any day of the week.

Maybe our forwards would make more metres if our backs got the fuck out of the way instead of trying to justify their existence with empty stats and no substance to their games.
 
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That's a stat I cannot understand the value of... running metres; when the leading backs tend to be the ones that are hanging around behind everyone waiting for the kick. When they eventually get it, they get a free 30 or so metres each play before anyone else turns up?? Cannot be compared with the boys working their butts off trying to carry the ball through heavy fire up the middle, scratching out 5-8 m each time, even if the opposition manages to stay on side.
 
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That's a stat I cannot understand the value of... running metres; when the leading backs tend to be the ones that are hanging around behind everyone waiting for the kick. When they eventually get it, they get a free 30 or so metres each play before anyone else turns up?? Cannot be compared with the boys working their butts off trying to carry the ball through heavy fire up the middle, scratching out 5-8 m each time, even if the opposition manages to stay on side.

On top of that, if your backs are hanging out in the middle of the field the defence compresses, making it even harder to find space up the middle.
 
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I couldn't catch the game live on Saturday but heard a whole lot about it so decided to give it a watch today. I saw the media were all over the Hiku strip call, but was shocked that nothing has really been said about the Roosters first try. Surely that is not the way the ruling of a contested high ball is supposed to be. Fusitua had jumped first, was clearly leading the contest in terms of positioning and was really clumsily cleaned out before he had the opportunity to take the catch. Absolutely no defender is going to catch the ball in that situation. Will be interesting to see if anything is said from the referees boss because if that's the way an attacker can now contest the high ball it opens up a massive can of worms.
 
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Chanel Harris-Tavita had a very good 2019 as a very green rookie. I can't remember the games you mention specifically, but what was his strength in them in your opinion?

I remember a committed, composed young kid who defended well for his age and size and distributed well at times. He made a couple of heads up plays when he put in early grubbers. Some were the right option. What I haven't seen in FG (that I can remember) is a running game, any organising of plays in response to the opposition or any effective, controlling kicking game.

It is perhaps wrong to put pressure on him when he is on a hiding to nothing by playing second fiddle to Green, but I think most genuine halfback prospects would have shown a few more flashes of the future or taken the game by the scruff of the neck on occasion. I agree, he looks like he has had on overdose of SK's stupefying conservatism.

I really hope he gets a great half to play next to to give him a fair crack, but if he doesn't get that it is on him to stand up and be counted.

Yeah that's not far off my assessment really. Though I think he does have a pretty good running game. In addition to the technical stuff you mentioned, his mindset really impressed me for a rookie. He was never afraid to try something when he saw the opportunity, and if it didn't come off, he didn't get dejected. I think he has pretty good game awareness and vision too. And definitely a better kicking game than Kodi, but agree he hasn't really controlled a game in that way. I think playing outside Green has a lot to do with that just because of how much our gameplan relies on him.

This year it seems a bit like he's going through the motions; none of the sharpness, footwork, or instinctive play that was promising last season. We saw a bit of it with that improvised grubber against the Broncos, which should've resulted in a drop out, but instead resulted in a try. So far this year he's looked like he's lacking a bit of confidenceI don't really know why, though, looking at our team, it could be one of a million things. Not saying he's the guy to lead us to our maiden premiership, but I think there's an NRL quality half in there and I'm intrigued to see him and Kodi partner up, because it'll force him to play a more dominant role.
 
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I couldn't catch the game live on Saturday but heard a whole lot about it so decided to give it a watch today. I saw the media were all over the Hiku strip call, but was shocked that nothing has really been said about the Roosters first try. Surely that is not the way the ruling of a contested high ball is supposed to be. Fusitua had jumped first, was clearly leading the contest in terms of positioning and was really clumsily cleaned out before he had the opportunity to take the catch. Absolutely no defender is going to catch the ball in that situation. Will be interesting to see if anything is said from the referees boss because if that's the way an attacker can now contest the high ball it opens up a massive can of worms.

And that's not the first time this year that Fusitua has been thrown under a bus.
 
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Dixpat

In Andy we (have to) trust
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I couldn't catch the game live on Saturday but heard a whole lot about it so decided to give it a watch today. I saw the media were all over the Hiku strip call, but was shocked that nothing has really been said about the Roosters first try. Surely that is not the way the ruling of a contested high ball is supposed to be. Fusitua had jumped first, was clearly leading the contest in terms of positioning and was really clumsily cleaned out before he had the opportunity to take the catch. Absolutely no defender is going to catch the ball in that situation. Will be interesting to see if anything is said from the referees boss because if that's the way an attacker can now contest the high ball it opens up a massive can of worms.
If you watch Annersley today you will only see he examples a similar incident from the knight's game where the attacking player was penalized and he says that was the right call. Unsurprisingly makes no comment on the Fusitua incident
 
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On top of that, if your backs are hanging out in the middle of the field the defence compresses, making it even harder to find space up the middle.
Thats why they have
That's a stat I cannot understand the value of... running metres; when the leading backs tend to be the ones that are hanging around behind everyone waiting for the kick. When they eventually get it, they get a free 30 or so metres each play before anyone else turns up?? Cannot be compared with the boys working their butts off trying to carry the ball through heavy fire up the middle, scratching out 5-8 m each time, even if the opposition manages to stay on side.
Thats why they also have the stat kick return metres. This roosters almost exclusively kicked to fusitua, which is why his metre stat was inflated, but 22 runs is still 22 runs and it would be harsh to overlook it and say oh thats easy.
Also the middle fowards are the ones that do most of the work on defense, making the 10 then rushing up again to make the tackle. Defense can be much easier on the wings and fullback who mostly have to worry about positioning and making the right reads as opposed to making the 10. This is why the early tackles after the kick return it makes sense for the wings and fullback to take the carrys as the fowards especially the props can take their time and have a quick breather while they get on side. Imagine how tiring it would be being a big prop and doing a full set of defense until the kick and then being expected to rush back onside and take hard carries while you tell the wingers to "stay out and stop clogging the middle". Set, after set. But im sure you know this.
 
Thats why they have

Thats why they also have the stat kick return metres. This roosters almost exclusively kicked to fusitua, which is why his metre stat was inflated, but 22 runs is still 22 runs and it would be harsh to overlook it and say oh thats easy.
Also the middle fowards are the ones that do most of the work on defense, making the 10 then rushing up again to make the tackle. Defense can be much easier on the wings and fullback who mostly have to worry about positioning and making the right reads as opposed to making the 10. This is why the early tackles after the kick return it makes sense for the wings and fullback to take the carrys as the fowards especially the props can take their time and have a quick breather while they get on side. Imagine how tiring it would be being a big prop and doing a full set of defense until the kick and then being expected to rush back onside and take hard carries while you tell the wingers to "stay out and stop clogging the middle". Set, after set. But im sure you know this.

Since when is the 4th and 5th tackle "early in the set"?

Who has even remotely suggested that props rush back to take the first couple of hit ups in a set? Everyone is well aware that the first couple of tackles the wingers are the ones in position to take the hit ups.

The wingers take the first couple of hit ups, even the third if the game situation dictates, but by halfway through the set our backs should be in an attacking formation so we actually have attacking options.

Options is the key word, because when you don't have options you're predictable, the defense has it easy, and you're not accumulating fatigue on them at all because of how one dimensional you are.

And again for the 1000th time on this forum, wingers should be doing more than just being hit up merchants.

You mention positioning and reading the play - neither of our wingers do that. They're habitually caught out on kicks and reacting late in defense.
 
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Since when is the 4th and 5th tackle "early in the set"?

Who has even remotely suggested that props rush back to take the first couple of hit ups in a set? Everyone is well aware that the first couple of tackles the wingers are the ones in position to take the hit ups.

The wingers take the first couple of hit ups, even the third if the game situation dictates, but by halfway through the set our backs should be in an attacking formation so we actually have attacking options.

Options is the key word, because when you don't have options you're predictable, the defense has it easy, and you're not accumulating fatigue on them at all because of how one dimensional you are.

And again for the 1000th time on this forum, wingers should be doing more than just being hit up merchants.

You mention positioning and reading the play - neither of our wingers do that. They're habitually caught out on kicks and reacting late in defense.
Sorry but i cant recall seeing one time, ever, that our wings are in centre field taking a hit up on the 4th or 5th tackle?

I agree the attack needs to be much better, particularly the way they use Roger Tuivasa-Sheck in good field position. They are giving him ball as a first receiver and asking him to create (ala ponga) when that is simply not his game. I get so feustrated watching him sitting on one side of the field on 4th while they head to the other and i would love to see him on the end of some more sweeping plays where he gets the ball via a block play and can be one on one. Imagine him sweeping behind katoa where nikorima can either go behind to katoa and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck can zoom up as a support player incase of a offload, or with the threat of katoa cloase to the line they hit Roger Tuivasa-Sheck behind while the defense is honest. I cant remember seeing that happen at all this year.

Also i think fusitua is far superior to maumalo in terms of defense, better kick defuser (although hes had his moments this season) and he makes far better reads and rushes and puts in a big hit. Maumalo ambles into no mans land and lazily swats at the pass, which compounds the problem of having a terrible defensive centre in hiku inside him.
 
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Chanel Harris-Tavita had a very good 2019 as a very green rookie. I can't remember the games you mention specifically, but what was his strength in them in your opinion?

I remember a committed, composed young kid who defended well for his age and size and distributed well at times. He made a couple of heads up plays when he put in early grubbers. Some were the right option. What I haven't seen in FG (that I can remember) is a running game, any organising of plays in response to the opposition or any effective, controlling kicking game.

It is perhaps wrong to put pressure on him when he is on a hiding to nothing by playing second fiddle to Green, but I think most genuine halfback prospects would have shown a few more flashes of the future or taken the game by the scruff of the neck on occasion. I agree, he looks like he has had on overdose of SK's stupefying conservatism.

I really hope he gets a great half to play next to to give him a fair crack, but if he doesn't get that it is on him to stand up and be counted.
Lots of truth in both this and pompower's post. A couple of things I thought I'd add.

The other strength of his game last year was support running, picked up one or two tries (and a few line breaks) from picking up offloads on a support run and often put the effort in to offer himself as an option. I think the key thing for me in the context of the warriors are the heads up plays he made. The team don't create a lot of scoring opportunities and he was looking for ways to get us over the line. Something to build on there.

This season he has been hard to judge. Post lockdown his only real game in the halves came against brisbane when kodi went off. I thought he had a pretty good game. Our left side had some good chances with him down that side. There was the tough pass to ken which could of ended up a try with a bit of luck and short side play for kens first try, also played a small (like catch and pass small) role in kens second try. His other opportunities have come as dummy half and its not really a role that suits him.

Given the chance to play consistently in the halves, some good guidance and coaching (unlikely I know), I still believe he could be a good option for us.
 
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If you watch Annersley today you will only see he examples a similar incident from the knight's game where the attacking player was penalized and he says that was the right call. Unsurprisingly makes no comment on the Fusitua incident
Just watched the whole video now and to justify the recent string of blunders he makes the comment about how we need to focus on the number of times "the bunker" makes the right call throughout the course of the entire season, but completely misses the fact that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the bunker in terms of the technology. That part of it is fine. It is the inability for those officials viewing the footage to understand what constitutes the actual mistake of a player vs what disadvantages them due to sloppy or deliberate interference from the opposition. Its not rocket science and to have the same thing ruled differently in the same weekend is just awful.
 
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If you watch Annersley today you will only see he examples a similar incident from the knight's game where the attacking player was penalized and he says that was the right call. Unsurprisingly makes no comment on the Fusitua incident
Probably not a popular comment but whilst that was a penalty against the rooster, I wish we didn’t put it in their hands to make the decision. Fusitua should be taking that ball 100%. Funny thing is if he holds the ball, we probably get a penalty!
 
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The only real question we should be asking around Harris-Tevita is can he perform the core roles of a halfback with precision and consistency week in week out.

Lot of chat around the potential of young players on the forum and I get that, we all live in hope but Chanel Harris-Tavita will be under immense pressure next season and I haven’t seen the kind of measured assurity in his play or in his organising ability that leads me to think he’ll withstand the rigours of playing halfback in the Nrl for an entire season.

It wouldn’t surprise to see us go to market tbh.
 
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Probably not a popular comment but whilst that was a penalty against the rooster, I wish we didn’t put it in their hands to make the decision. Fusitua should be taking that ball 100%. Funny thing is if he holds the ball, we probably get a penalty!

He probably would have taken it if he hadn't been interfered with. That was the issue
 
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Dixpat

In Andy we (have to) trust
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Probably not a popular comment but whilst that was a penalty against the rooster, I wish we didn’t put it in their hands to make the decision. Fusitua should be taking that ball 100%. Funny thing is if he holds the ball, we probably get a penalty!
If it is a penalty if he caught it, it is a penalty when he is clattered and drops it.

In the circumstances he had every right not to catch it and we ought to be able to rely on the refs
 
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