Post Match NRL 2019 - Round 4 - Warriors vs Titans Post Match Discussion

[bruce]

A good solid game. Titans while 0-3 coming into the game had played well against the Sharks, they had 4 tries disallowed and competed well against the Bunnies.

Good point and the Storm Dogs game gives me some hope that if we get the defence right we might be able to compete...in the bottom eight.

BTW defence does NOT win matches, I hate this negative statement.

You can spend your life watching replays of the under 20s then. That is how they played and that is what we are paying for now.

 

[jonno]

I wasn’t condoning throwing defence out the window in favour of attack, just saying you shouldn’t have the mindset that defence will win you the game. You quoted that part of my comment so I assume you realise this, although your reply seems to suggest that you disagree, not too sure though, there were a few tangents thrown in there lol. I understand the psychology of a strong defence ie what do we have to do to get through these guys? Can be mentally wearing on opposition. Still doesn’t change the fact that you need something to defend ie a lead, and that involves scoring points, which was what I was trying to get at. Yes, champion teams have excellent attack and defence, but we are far from that at the moment and will never get there if all of our focus is on defence. Sorry if I have misunderstood your comments wasn’t sure if you were disagreeing with me or just following on from my comments

Don't be sorry.

No I don't think great defense will win you the game, but it will cause the other team to lose.

I think of footy as a bit of a race. The goal is for the other team to get tired first so that their defense starts cracking and they can be attacked. The philosophy of winning games on attack misses this factor completely, as it's all about being so great on attack that you can score at will. But the reality is it's very difficult to score against a well drilled defense unless they are struggling to keep up with the play.

When you focus on Defense first then you naturally focus on fitness, and you also understand better the things you have to do to break the oppositions defense, ie: running them ragged and drawing them into a positional error. So in this way footy is like checkers. You move them around the park until they become tired, and then you move them sideways until they leave an opening to exploit.

If you think of two boxers fighting with one being way fitter than the other. The less fit boxer will be anxious to land a knockout blow before he runs out of steam. That's the same as a footy team that's not as fit. They will want to win early with blistering attack, and not put too much effort into defense.

So I'm very happy that the club has a defense first approach. They need to keep it up as far as I'm concerned, and let the attack grow naturally off the back of it.

 

[bruce]

So I'm very happy that the club has a defense first approach.

Quite honestly you could have fooled me.

 

[Warrior482]

i watch the 02 03 season and long for the flair and downright jaw dropping attack we were so good at.
some might say this strategy ultimately failed as we didn't quite reach the pinnacle.
Sometimes i feel like Kearney is attempting to apply a template of sorts which given his coaching mentors, is understandable.
I don't know if its right or wrong but i do wonder if the natural flair and attacking skill is being coached out of some of our guys?
Not only that but have we let too much x factor go? (and I don't mean Johnson)

 

[FuNQie]

.You can spend your life watching replays of the under 20s then. That is how they played and that is what we are paying for now.

Are you deliberately ignoring Christofolos’s point? Which is that scoring points is what wins a match. Of course great defence is very, very important. He never said it wasn’t. But if you can’t score a point then you have no lead to defend.

Feel free to do your best to argue your way out of that, Bruce, but the logic in the last sentence above is incontrovertible. It is Christo’s point in a nutshell.

The emphasis on scoring points while simultaneously not seeming to bother with defence was the issue with the U20s. No one’s disputing that.

Enjoy your evening...

 

[FuNQie]

i watch the 02 03 season and long for the flair and downright jaw dropping attack we were so good at.
some might say this strategy ultimately failed as we didn't quite reach the pinnacle.
Sometimes i feel like Kearney is attempting to apply a template of sorts which given his coaching mentors, is understandable.
I don't know if its right or wrong but i do wonder if the natural flair and attacking skill is being coached out of some of our guys?
Not only that but have we let too much x factor go? (and I don't mean Johnson)

I remember the very same point being made on this here forum when Cappy was coach. (That we didn’t seem to know how to score points anymore.)

 

[Warrior482]

I remember the very same point being made on this here forum when Cappy was coach. (That we didn’t seem to know how to score points anymore.)

Ahhh, the good old days.

 

[enterthewarrior]

Attack wins you praise, defence wins you games.

While its true you need to score more points than the other team to win, its more important to defend the lead if you have it. So at the end of the day, the team with the better defence will win the game.

 

[Billy Teets James]

Lol settle down on the Chanel Harris-Tavita circle jerk.

His passing was pretty poor. Several balls were off target, slow, and a lot of the time he just stood still and shovelled it on.

But maybe if they both develop, AK @ 7, Chanel Harris-Tavita @ 6

His running game was good, but not better than AK in rnd1.

I agree in the Lawton part, I've been banging that drum since rnd2, no coincidence every game we've had pace at 9, we've won.

I don't know. AK had one good run to score a try. Against a team that were 10 times as bad as the Titans. Harris had several good runs.
We will continue to circle jerk whilst we'll leave you in peace to fap in your AK support cIrcle. Thall shall not judge other fappers.

 

[Fonzie]

Just watched the replay and drank a six pack. Some thoughts below. I should add that I start from a considered opinion that Kearney is not a moron. So, thoughts:

If our back three don’t get us momentum our front row can’t generate it. And, especially when Jazz is at 9, sometimes they can’t even maintain it when the back 3 do get it. We can’t win against a decent side without a specialist 9. Any inside news on Roache or Luke?

The ‘side switch’ is causing all manner of issues. Combinations are all broken. Bringing a rookie half into a well established structure is one thing but breaking up your whole structure and bringing in a rookie makes life very hard. If this was done because Ken spat the dummy or to help Kata pass it was a mistake, but that doesn’t sound right. The guy who played hardball with Luke and Shaun Johnson gave in to a sulk from an outside back? Maybe they did this because they wanted to change the defence structure to compensate for the new half (a turnstile)? I haven’t thought about this enough and would love any insight anyone has.

It’s pretty fing hard to win nrl games with a rookie half and your third string hooker. They deserve some credit for that win, even if the Titans were terrible.

I still think there are factions/politics going on within the squad. Something didn’t look right last week and the changes this week don’t explain it.

 

[Fazz]

Man, what are you on, I want some lol. Refs were appalling as per usual. Yes our guys are making a decent impression of a garbage truck so far this season, will concede that point, but officiating is dire. We may have deserved those penalties against us, but refs don’t penalise the opposition for similar infringements, which is where the even playing field disappears. This happens to us three weeks from four, and has done so since 1995. Watch any replay if you don’t believe me, but focus on what the opposition are doing during the game, other teams get away with blue murder against us, and opposition coaches know this the smart ones have this nugget tucked into their game plan. Do you think it was a coincidence that we went on a winning streak last year at the start of the season when the refs had a sook and pinged the fuck out of everything moving for the first six rounds? All of a sudden most teams were conceding 300% more penalties than they were used to, and it threw them, bunnies / storm / roosters / sharks all in the bottom half of the table. Our guys took this in their stride simply because they are used to it. Then the refs prove their point and put the whistles away, normal service resumed, just teams like us, raiders, cowboys, titans getting a caning from the refs, competition darlings start looking like world beaters again. Hmm, I wonder.....
Anyway, that was the long version
Here is the shorter one
We won Friday night yet a lot of people here are slating the refs. They are doing so because if the refs had called their rulings evenly on both teams we would have won by 50. Warriors fans who bring this up just want a fair go from refs, nothing more. If you think we get a fair go from refs in this comp in an overall sense then you’re not watching closely enough.
✌

I'm usually one of the first people crying about officiating in here, but I don't think there was much to be upset about. Granted, as you say, our team has been doing such a great impression of a garbage truck, I was probably too busy being pissed off at them to be pissed off at the refs.

 

[Stalefish540]

Like this you mean??

Yes that is one instance. I'd like to see him doing it more consistently like he was at the Roosters week in week out, or as I stated if you watch CNK this season literally following the play the ball waiting for opportunity.

I'm not throwing shade, Roger is freak. Just a curious question, as it was a massive asset for the Roosters when he was there.

 

[Christofolos]

Good point and the Storm Dogs game gives me some hope that if we get the defence right we might be able to compete...in the bottom eight.

You can spend your life watching replays of the under 20s then. That is how they played and that is what we are paying for now.

Bruce, you normally make a lot of sense, but in your reply to my comments I am wondering if you are secretly Chris Rattie in disguise, a journalistic Uber god lol. You took one sentence of my post and turned it into a statement. All I said was that you cannot rely solely on defence to win matches, I think this reply re U20 matches was beneath you. However, you may have a good point, defence in U20’s is very under done, what are they preparing these kids for? And after watching the Warriors rounds 2 / 3 / 4 I wouldn’t mind watching the young guys showing a bit of passion for their jerseys, would certainly be an improvement over most of the first grade guys. Add to that that the U20’s have two flags to their credit, you might be onto something here.
As ever, I fault the coaching staff for our guys lacklustre performances, but accept that some of the blame goes to the players.
And BTW some of our U20’s players look awesome until they are sold off to other clubs or turned into robots when we push them into reserve grade and first grade. You are a second rower or prop with good footwork or offloading abilities? Forget that shit, we want you to be a tackling machine, because defence wins games, which is why guys like Simon mannering and Michael luck are considered club legends by a lot of people. No disrespect to these guys, I love them, but it shows what our club / coaching staff are aiming for, defence in the first degree and mediocrity with the ball in hand.
So that was the long version.
Here’s the short one.
That was a dickhead comment you made, well below your normally insightful views, but I will forgive you because you’re normally on the ball ( except when you disagree with me lol )
Peace out

 

[Christofolos]

Don't be sorry.

No I don't think great defense will win you the game, but it will cause the other team to lose.

I think of footy as a bit of a race. The goal is for the other team to get tired first so that their defense starts cracking and they can be attacked. The philosophy of winning games on attack misses this factor completely, as it's all about being so great on attack that you can score at will. But the reality is it's very difficult to score against a well drilled defense unless they are struggling to keep up with the play.

When you focus on Defense first then you naturally focus on fitness, and you also understand better the things you have to do to break the oppositions defense, ie: running them ragged and drawing them into a positional error. So in this way footy is like checkers. You move them around the park until they become tired, and then you move them sideways until they leave an opening to exploit.

If you think of two boxers fighting with one being way fitter than the other. The less fit boxer will be anxious to land a knockout blow before he runs out of steam. That's the same as a footy team that's not as fit. They will want to win early with blistering attack, and not put too much effort into defense.

So I'm very happy that the club has a defense first approach. They need to keep it up as far as I'm concerned, and let the attack grow naturally off the back of it.

Ok, now I get what you’re saying, although you switch from the army to the checkers board to boxing to races at will, slippery fucker aren’t you? Lol. However, you are still missing my point, I am not advocating abandoning defence for pure attack, I would like to see a balance of both, in my view our guys have been too defence orientated for too long, all I ask for is balance ( and a pony for Xmas lol)

 

[Aman]

Can’t win even win I win

 

[Christofolos]

i watch the 02 03 season and long for the flair and downright jaw dropping attack we were so good at.
some might say this strategy ultimately failed as we didn't quite reach the pinnacle.
Sometimes i feel like Kearney is attempting to apply a template of sorts which given his coaching mentors, is understandable.
I don't know if its right or wrong but i do wonder if the natural flair and attacking skill is being coached out of some of our guys?
Not only that but have we let too much x factor go? (and I don't mean Johnson)

Bud, I hear you, that era we went a bit too much touch footy, but boy was it fun to watch. All we needed to do after Anderson got the bums rush was rein it in a bit, the opposition coaches were shitting themselves in that era. But no, let’s go back to defence orientated football, we’ve never looked the same. My wet dream is Daniel Anderson coaching with Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Shaun Johnson in the mix, and if that sounds gay i’m Ok with that lol
And we’ve had plenty of guys coming through the ranks in the meantime who have great attacking flair that our management/ coaches don’t rate, and either move on or coach that horrible natural talent out of them. Brisbane have had the pick of most Qld Cup talents for two decades, haven’t they had a horrible run lol

 

[Christofolos]

Are you deliberately ignoring Christofolos’s point? Which is that scoring points is what wins a match. Of course great defence is very, very important. He never said it wasn’t. But if you can’t score a point then you have no lead to defend.

Feel free to do your best to argue your way out of that, Bruce, but the logic in the last sentence above is incontrovertible. It is Christo’s point in a nutshell.

The emphasis on scoring points while simultaneously not seeming to bother with defence was the issue with the U20s. No one’s disputing that.

Enjoy your evening...

Thank fuck somebody understood the point I was trying to make lol

 

[Christofolos]

Attack wins you praise, defence wins you games.

While its true you need to score more points than the other team to win, its more important to defend the lead if you have it. So at the end of the day, the team with the better defence will win the game.

Well done contradicting yourself lol

 

[Raw Power]

One more whinge about the Refs... Are the Warriors the only side to continuously get pinged for having a hand/arm genuinely trapped in the tackled player?

It seems most of the time and with the other teams, the Refs will see this as a unfortunate part of the game and give the tackler reasonable time and a chance to safely get his hand/arm free.

 

[wizards rage]

I'm usually one of the first people crying about officiating in here, but I don't think there was much to be upset about. Granted, as you say, our team has been doing such a great impression of a garbage truck, I was probably too busy being pissed off at them to be pissed off at the refs.

The penalties were so predictable a poster said in the game day tread, to get ready for the penalty to help to Titans out of there 20... then it happened

In science you predict something and if it happens then it proves a theory

Either he can see the future or he understood the refs mindset