Team List NRL 2018 Round 11 - Eels vs Warriors TEAM LIST

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01 Jan 1970 12:00PM

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Fazz

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 12, 2012
4,760
Hamilton, New Zealand
Baaaaaa

Some goldfish posters just want to throw out what was working in favor of their new special fave player of the minute, Tevaga can play lock because he's done it much of the year to good effect.

Rd 3 W Raiders – Luke 80 minutes, Tevaga 56 minutes
Rd 4 W Roosters – Luke 80 minutes, Tevaga 53 minutes
Rd 5 W Cowboys – Luke 80 minutes, Tevaga 53 minutes
Rd 6 L Broncos – Luke 80 minutes, Tevaga 56 minutes
Rd 7 W Dragons – Luke 80 minutes, Tevaga 60 minutes.

The combination works, the results speak for themselves, when Luke is missing it goes south in a hurry, but that just shows his importance.

See the thing is ... you've got big minutes there, but what does he bring to the game in terms of actual impact? He's an okay defender in a team that is going well. But when things get hard, what does he bring to the table?

Hard running? No. Momentum changing playmaking? No. Momentum swinging hits? No.

To top that off, he starts making errors and chewing up plays with gormless runs.

Jazz is getting hammered because frankly, his fairly average efforts were disguised by the rest of the team KILLING it. Now that he's not being carried by other people's momentum, it's clear he isn't really bringing much to the table.

Would I prefer Lawton? Yes. Is this strictly Lawton vs Jazz? No. I simply don't think he's useful when considering the composition of the team. We already have Mannering in the team who Jazz is an inferior version of.

We don't need a guy that can play big minutes in the forwards. We don't need a utility that can do a piss poor job of covering Hooker/2nd Row/Lock. Most of our pack can cover Prop/2nd Row/Lock and play big minutes in the even of injury. We are MUCH better served having Lawton (Centre/Hooker/Lock) or Beale (Fullback/Centre/Wing/Shitty Small Forward (Jazz style) on the bench as it suits the side's needs more.

Also consider that he's supposed to be cover for Luke, but you admitted things 'go south in a hurry' when Luke isn't there. Isn't it counter productive for the cover to CLEARLY screw up the team when providing cover? It's partly coincidental, but 4 of the Roosters tries last week came while Jazz was on and Lawton was off. I'm not blaming him entirely, but it puts a lot more pressure on the team when they're getting really poor service from the hooker.

But yes, soooo impressive that Jazz can play 60 odd minutes for 40 limp dick metres gained (usually in lieu of a proper attacking play inside the 20) and 30 third man in tackles.
 

TripleL

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 26, 2016
113
Jazz is definitely a lightening rod...

Debate about the makeup of the bench is fine, Lawton does offer cover for a wider range of positions and there's no doubt that has value. And I wouldn't necessarily have a problem if he was there instead of Jazz this week.

However, suggesting Jazz is rubbish and offers nothing is just stupid. Energy and workrate on D aren't necessarily simple attributes that are easily replaced. Granted, he could tone down his involvement in the attack but again it effort and I bet the coaches love that about him. Stats only tell you so much....

Also worth considering, this week two of the other bench player are low minute / high impact type players... (at least until Gavet gets back to full fitness / form).
 
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eudebrito

|-|
Contributor
May 21, 2013
3,842
We don't need a guy that can play big minutes in the forwards. We don't need a utility that can do a piss poor job of covering Hooker/2nd Row/Lock. Most of our pack can cover Prop/2nd Row/Lock and play big minutes in the even of injury. We are MUCH better served having Lawton (Centre/Hooker/Lock) or Beale (Fullback/Centre/Wing/Shitty Small Forward (Jazz style) on the bench as it suits the side's needs more.

But yes, soooo impressive that Jazz can play 60 odd minutes for 40 limp dick metres gained (usually in lieu of a proper attacking play inside the 20) and 30 third man in tackles.

Its wild exaggerations like this which make it not worth bothering, jerking yourself stupid over like the 16th most important player in the team must get tiring. It doesn’t matter that much who the bench utility is, what matters is the attitude the starters bring into the game and not getting bullied and making the stupid errors they made last week.

I just come down on the side that what was working in the past (you know, like, evidence based in reality) will continue to work in the future.
 

Fazz

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 12, 2012
4,760
Hamilton, New Zealand
Its wild exaggerations like this which make it not worth bothering, jerking yourself stupid over like the 16th most important player in the team must get tiring. It doesn’t matter that much who the bench utility is, what matters is the attitude the starters bring into the game and not getting bullied and making the stupid errors they made last week.

I just come down on the side that what was working in the past (you know, like, evidence based in reality) will continue to work in the future.

What am I exaggerating? I looked at Jazz's stats and that is a pretty close representation of what he offers. Granted, it's probably less third man in tackles, but there have been numerous instances of him getting the ball when we're on the attack and doing fuck all with it (EG Luck or Mannering)

You've also shifted the goalposts from 'Jazz has played lock to great effect' to 'it doesn't matter about the bench utility'.

Mate, the bench in the modern game is more important than ever. If the starters fail to fire, we need to be able to call on our bench to make a difference. Is Lawton going to do that? Not really. BUT he offers real pace out of dummy half, which has the potential to shift momentum with some smart scoots. Jazz offers serviceable defence and less than nothing on attack. If anything, he hinders the attack and prevents the momentum swinging our way. That's without re-iterating my point about Lawton offering more solutions to potential injuries than Jazz.

You can talk about earlier in the season and he was okay then - but all I see is the miserable failure that was Jazz as hooking cover last week and his many, many ineffective runs in the past. I maintain that the side was working in the past, irrespective of Jazz. He didn't harm a team that was performing well, but he damn sure can't pull a team that's in trouble back onto the right path.

But yeah, ultimately the utility is less of a concern than Hiku's tackling or Johnson's injury woes.
 

Run_it_str8

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 1, 2016
2,607
I just dont get Kearny at all, he keeps making the same mistakes year after year, the way he keeps getting schooled by good Coaches tells me we cant win a GF with him in charge.
Also Im disappointed the meathead is injured instead of dropped.

Jazz is better at what?? Missing tackles and shit line defence and fucking up attacking plays.

Watching live I didn't realise how many tackles Lawton made, its pity no other forward can boast his workrate and efficiency, fucking madness he aint the 14, he'd play Lock too just going by stats.

Lawton 35 tackles in 50 mins 0 misses 0 ineffective 7 runs for 68m, 29 PCM, 0 errors.
Thats impressive shit in a team that got flogged.

Jizz 31 tackles in 48, 3 missed, 2 ineffective 7 runs for 31m 11 PCM, 2 errors.

I just dont get it.

Fair call on Jazz but if you measure his stats on that game next to the rest of the pack they probably all should be dropped.
 

Aman

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 9, 2016
4,547
Anyone else feel that our whole fitness advantage seems to have gon backwards last few weeks. We look a little slower, a bit more lethargic and less energetic and flat. Other teams have almost caught up or surpassed us. How does that happen? Is it just the boys not use to a gruelling pre season so now it feels like they are at the end of the season rather than the middle? Did we hit our peak too early?
 
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BlaqAdam

Warriors Bench Player
Mar 5, 2016
183
I don't know why people say that. Shaun Johnson is pretty hearty these days with his defense. He puts shots on. Always covering , Makes his fair share of tackles.
Yes, He Can get lazy sometimes. I would to if I was trying to do everything else lol
'These Days'.. How long has Shaun Johnson been in the NRL? Better yet, how long has he been in the Warriors system yet he STILL is trash on defence? The reason why Roosters did so good agasint us over the weekend is because their props ran at our backs which means if any team is gonna beat us up the middle it will be running to our halves and hookers instead of our Bigs. I can't have that on my conscience Lino got ran through heaps because they target the defensive weaklink in every team.. Ours being Shaun Johnson
 

Far North Forever

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 5, 2013
998
Northland
Anyone else feel that our whole fitness advantage seems to have gon backwards last few weeks. We look a little slower, a bit more lethargic and less energetic and flat. Other teams have almost caught up or surpassed us. How does that happen? Is it just the boys not use to a gruelling pre season so now it feels like they are at the end of the season rather than the middle? Did we hit our peak too early?
Pre ejaculation hurts the missus when you peak too early but thing is your fine with it. Hopefully they regroup for another big jizz all over eels.
 
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Tragic

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 27, 2016
4,670
Kumeu
Anyone else feel that our whole fitness advantage seems to have gon backwards last few weeks. We look a little slower, a bit more lethargic and less energetic and flat. Other teams have almost caught up or surpassed us. How does that happen? Is it just the boys not use to a gruelling pre season so now it feels like they are at the end of the season rather than the middle? Did we hit our peak too early?

Match fitness kicking in for everyone I would say helps and on top of that there is no more 10-12 metres, now its 9-10.
 

BlaqAdam

Warriors Bench Player
Mar 5, 2016
183
Load of rubbish, I would back Shaun Johnson to make a tackle any day of the week
Shaun Johnson is TERRIBLE at defence lol. When was the last time you saw him tackle twice in a set? Dude makes his safe tackles and runs out to the wing until we get the ball back. As I said above, Teams aim for Shaun Johnson ALL THE TIME because they know that If they run at him, hes most likely gonna need help to take them down. Yeah we've seen him put a shot on every now and then, but If you wanna sit there and act like he's AWESOME at defence you gotta be kidding brother. He's one of our worst defenders and the biggest target with ball in hand.
 

Run_it_str8

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 1, 2016
2,607
Anyone else feel that our whole fitness advantage seems to have gon backwards last few weeks. We look a little slower, a bit more lethargic and less energetic and flat. Other teams have almost caught up or surpassed us. How does that happen? Is it just the boys not use to a gruelling pre season so now it feels like they are at the end of the season rather than the middle? Did we hit our peak too early?

We need to be explosive and have endurance. Not just for 80 minutes.

For 80 minutes x a whole season
 

BlaqAdam

Warriors Bench Player
Mar 5, 2016
183
We need to be explosive and have endurance. Not just for 80 minutes.

For 80 minutes x a whole season
Its tough for the Forwards to keep that up seems asthough they come across the most contact, but I can't speak for the rest of the team. I thought Hookers were meant to be quite fit? idk
 

BlaqAdam

Warriors Bench Player
Mar 5, 2016
183
You probably quoted a troll....sock account.

Johnson is the best defender in the backline, he has to make the most tackles for starters, he has missed a couple of hum dingers when the line has been out of sync, but front on he almost never misses his man, that is why when he plays the teams overall defensive stats are markedly better than having Lino parked out on the wing.

Happy with the team overall, Lawton I have no idea what SK is thinking there though I will wait till an hour before kick off to cast judgement.

Tevaga I can understand, Luke (assuming he is properly fit) makes a lot of damaging dummy half scoots off the back off Jazz running, which is part of how they get this kick up a gear when their lesser bench forwards come onto the field (there is an overlap with Luke and Jazz anyhow and provided they stick to the short spells they use Jazz when Lukes there....I get it).

The third element for the speeding up the ruck was reliant on Lisone.

In the end I couldn't wait to see him dropped...however looking back I can see why they gave him so many opportunities, a lot of time was invested in the guy being that attack running forward....and more importantly it was working brilliantly.,.,,I get the mindset that you try to fix flaws before throwing the whole product out.

Hopefully Lisone fixes his defence...I think that was his real downfall with the coaches Axe being swung in the very end.

Satae copped a bit of an injury last week though clearly not too serious, I am happy for him this week and really hope he has a solid game.

It would not surprise me to see Lino out.

In which case, based on that two sets of benchs anything is possible with SK, especially this year...he is not sitting back and doing the same copy and paste of last season...there are consistent changes happening after losses.


'Quoted a troll' ha! Dont make me laugh bro lol.

-I agree with what you said about Lawton, but hey with no Luke and Roach what can ya do right? Tevaga isn't much of a hooker anyways lol.
-Lisone can do a lot to improve, like pick up his nuts. Dude was undersized and showed he was intimidated over the weekend. Defensively yep he could tighten up also. Didnt help the amount of times Nappa was shoulder barging and getting away with it tbh.
-I hope Satae does well in ISP too, Having him and someone like Sao on the bench would be good, get a lot of agro out of them.
-Unfair what happened to Lino but hey, thats the game they play right? Both him and Green getting completley shut down. A reliable source told me there wasn't that much communication on the field too which is dissappointing.
 

flying coconut

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 21, 2012
1,091
Its wild exaggerations like this which make it not worth bothering, jerking yourself stupid over like the 16th most important player in the team must get tiring. It doesn’t matter that much who the bench utility is, what matters is the attitude the starters bring into the game and not getting bullied and making the stupid errors they made last week.

I just come down on the side that what was working in the past (you know, like, evidence based in reality) will continue to work in the future.

This is where your wrong. If Luke gets injured he becomes one of the most important players and he can't do the job at dummy half.
 
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BlaqAdam

Warriors Bench Player
Mar 5, 2016
183
See the thing is ... you've got big minutes there, but what does he bring to the game in terms of actual impact? He's an okay defender in a team that is going well. But when things get hard, what does he bring to the table?

Hard running? No. Momentum changing playmaking? No. Momentum swinging hits? No.

To top that off, he starts making errors and chewing up plays with gormless runs.

Jazz is getting hammered because frankly, his fairly average efforts were disguised by the rest of the team KILLING it. Now that he's not being carried by other people's momentum, it's clear he isn't really bringing much to the table.

Would I prefer Lawton? Yes. Is this strictly Lawton vs Jazz? No. I simply don't think he's useful when considering the composition of the team. We already have Mannering in the team who Jazz is an inferior version of.

We don't need a guy that can play big minutes in the forwards. We don't need a utility that can do a piss poor job of covering Hooker/2nd Row/Lock. Most of our pack can cover Prop/2nd Row/Lock and play big minutes in the even of injury. We are MUCH better served having Lawton (Centre/Hooker/Lock) or Beale (Fullback/Centre/Wing/Shitty Small Forward (Jazz style) on the bench as it suits the side's needs more.

Also consider that he's supposed to be cover for Luke, but you admitted things 'go south in a hurry' when Luke isn't there. Isn't it counter productive for the cover to CLEARLY screw up the team when providing cover? It's partly coincidental, but 4 of the Roosters tries last week came while Jazz was on and Lawton was off. I'm not blaming him entirely, but it puts a lot more pressure on the team when they're getting really poor service from the hooker.

But yes, soooo impressive that Jazz can play 60 odd minutes for 40 limp dick metres gained (usually in lieu of a proper attacking play inside the 20) and 30 third man in tackles.
Ya hate to see it haha All true here. When Roach had a jam last year a lot of us agreed he was more in form than Luke and now Lawton comes out of nowhere and scores two tries for us against the Tigers lol. Sorry Luke hha
 

jonno

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 13, 2014
9,803
Jazz get's picked because Attitude. That's it. He's probably got one of the best attitudes in the squad. So just having him out there is going to lift the team a little.

As opposed to Lisone who gets picked on talent, of which he's definitely got some over Jazz.

But if you had to pick either of them to play, it's Jazz every time IMO. Attitude beats talent if talent is operating under a shit head.

Kearney has won some big games with TL playing long minutes along side Shaun Johnson, Foran, Luke as a mini lock.

We just need our big boppers to get infected with the Jazz man's outlook on footy, and do their fucken jobs, and all will be well with this team IMO.
 

Lance155

1st Grade Fringe
Feb 24, 2013
1,269
Shaun Johnson is TERRIBLE at defence lol. When was the last time you saw him tackle twice in a set? Dude makes his safe tackles and runs out to the wing until we get the ball back. As I said above, Teams aim for Shaun Johnson ALL THE TIME because they know that If they run at him, hes most likely gonna need help to take them down. Yeah we've seen him put a shot on every now and then, but If you wanna sit there and act like he's AWESOME at defence you gotta be kidding brother. He's one of our worst defenders and the biggest target with ball in hand.


Why don't you put a poll up and we can see how many agree with you. Johnson struggle on defence in his early years (like most halves) but as pointed out by others he is a strong defender now. Not my fault you are stubborn and can't face facts that players change (for better or worse). You probably think the Morris twins are still killing it like they were 5 years ago.
 

Defence

Warriors 1st Grader
May 9, 2012
6,451
Just read an article that mentioned there have been 25 players who have played for both the eels and warriors so I whipped up a team made up of them just because.

McKinnon
inu
Iva ropati
Whatuira
Odenryn
Foran
Green

Mark horo
Pj marsh
Tookey
Galuvao
Mateo
Todd lowrie

Ian Henderson
Matagi
latimore
John Simon

Coach John moonie (Kearney and anderson also coached both clubs)

Perenara can be the ref.
 
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