Post Match NRL 2017 - Round 7 - Raiders vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

[Deranged]

One of the key differences between the Warriors and teams that are consistently good is the ruck speed. The Raiders game was a good example of that.
Canberra were always hustling on attack and most importantly gaining the advantage in the tackle by getting to their knees quickly to ptb. For a lot of the time they had us backpedalling and the crowd baying for offside penalties because there simply wasn't time to get back the 10.

When we were on attack we often got dominated in the tackle and couldn't seem to avoid being 'turtled' by the defense which obviously lost us some impetus.
Melbourne are also very good in the ruck area and I don't think it's necessarily a fitness issue rather than what they are being coached to do. Maybe other teams are just better at it than we are but it's something that needs to be addressed I reckon if we are to compete.

Our team is becoming a wrestling team. It takes time to perfect this. The raiders game showed that under fatigue at the end of the first half we struggled to slow the ruck down. I've noticed this is an area we are getting better in each week. If I keep seeing gradual improvement in this area I will be happy.

 

[Maddog]

Our team is becoming a wrestling team. It takes time to perfect this. The raiders game showed that under fatigue at the end of the first half we struggled to slow the ruck down. I've noticed this is an area we are getting better in each week. If I keep seeing gradual improvement in this area I will be happy.

I agree, towards the end of the first half both teams were out on their feet but the commentators were just focusing on the Warriors tired legs.
Brett Finch made the call both teams were struggling and it was the Warriors who came closest to scoring before the break.

The second half they had no ball, it was their own undoing.
Not many away teams win in Canberra or Melbourne so a bit of perspective is needed from a lot of fans and the media.

Warriors are far from a top team at the moment but are improving. Sure the next few games are tough but the NRL season is a marathon not a sprint.

 

[bruce]

Ryan was too defensive in his mindset, Roach was still going ok when he was subbed. If you are going to blame a single player for the Tigers loss then you would start with Wayne Pearce for dropping the ball with the try line in sight, followed by Garry Jack for dropping the kick, followed by Elias for hitting the crossbar followed by Mick Neil for being ankle tapped. Roach was a great player - but yeah he's ordinary with the mic.

Slightly off topic but I remember during that match Peter Sterling was being used a guest commentator, he had still been playing for the Eels that season. I think it was about half time and Graham Hughes (the match caller) asked how he thought the sides were going. Balmain had the edge over Canberra at that stage if I recall.

I will never forget what Sterlo said. He said Canberra will not give up. He said they were the toughest side he had played that season. He said they just don't stop coming at you. You might remember that.

That proved to be the case, they won the game by not giving up, and being fit enough to keep going. I won't argue the specifics of the Roache benching, because Sironen was involved as well. Warren Ryan was criticised for taking them off but he was/is a very astute judge of the game and maybe he could see just like Sterlo that his big forwards were not up to it.

If I recall that still is classed as one of the greatest finals ever and had a big part in getting more TV coverage of the game to NZ, and eventually an invitation for a NZ club to join the comp.

As a player goes Roache was very big, very tough, and very thick, can we agree on that?

 

[Mr Brownstone]

Slightly off topic but I remember during that match Peter Sterling was being used a guest commentator, he had still been playing for the Eels that season. I think it was about half time and Graham Hughes (the match caller) asked how he thought the sides were going. Balmain had the edge over Canberra at that stage if I recall.

I will never forget what Sterlo said. He said Canberra will not give up. He said they were the toughest side he had played that season. He said they just don't stop coming at you. You might remember that.

That proved to be the case, they won the game by not giving up, and being fit enough to keep going. I won't argue the specifics of the Roache benching, because Sironen was involved as well. Warren Ryan was criticised for taking them off but he was/is a very astute judge of the game and maybe he could see just like Sterlo that his big forwards were not up to it.

If I recall that still is classed as one of the greatest finals ever and had a big part in getting more TV coverage of the game to NZ, and eventually an invitation for a NZ club to join the comp.

As a player goes Roache was very big, very tough, and very thick, can we agree on that?

Haha yeah definitely. Now totally off topic however the 89 GF was the game that got me into league - and also hooked on the Raiders up until the Warriors entry into the comp in 1995. A few years back I was lucky enough to find myself in the company of Belcher, Elias and Pearce (who regardless of how they come across on TV are all really good blokes). I started talking about the game with Belcher however even then he was uncomfortable discussing it in the presence of the other two. To this day they remain totally gutted about the drama of that day.

 

[wallacenz]

I agree, towards the end of the first half both teams were out on their feet but the commentators were just focusing on the Warriors tired legs.
Brett Finch made the call both teams were struggling and it was the Warriors who came closest to scoring before the break.

The second half they had no ball, it was their own undoing.
Not many away teams win in Canberra or Melbourne so a bit of perspective is needed from a lot of fans and the media.

Warriors are far from a top team at the moment but are improving. Sure the next few games are tough but the NRL season is a marathon not a sprint.

That analogy doesnt really fit the NRL, teams have to hover at a 50 percent win rate or higher.

They need to be in the top 4 to win the competition which means about 16wins (and 2 byes) from 26 rounds. It is incredibly rare for a team outside the top 4 to win.

A 50% win rate gets 1 team into the finals, and that is the team with the best points differential. That team would need to have close losses throughout the season.

Getting below 50% win rate means teams have to make up games just to get back to 50, just to get a chance to get into the bottom 4, a position where history tells us it is unlikely they are good enough to win a competition.

So it really is a sprint throughout

 

[bruce]

That analogy doesnt really fit the NRL, teams have to hover at a 50 percent win rate or higher.

They need to be in the top 4 to win the competition which means about 16wins (and 2 byes) from 26 rounds. It is incredibly rare for a team outside the top 4 to win.

A 50% win rate gets 1 team into the finals, and that is the team with the best points differential. That team would need to have close losses throughout the season.

Getting below 50% win rate means teams have to make up games just to get back to 50, just to get a chance to get into the bottom 4, a position where history tells us it is unlikely they are good enough to win a competition.

So it really is a sprint throughout

Good point. When Canberra won the GF in 1989 only the top 5 from 12 teams made the finals. Canberra had a slow start but a strong finish and made it into fifth. Some trainspotter can correct me but I think they were the first to qualify fifth and take out the final.

To this day they remain totally gutted about the drama of that day.

I would believe that too. Gary Freeman was disconsolate on the ground. They were the form team and they thought they had it. It is interesting that Sticky Stuart was playing that day. He is one guy who NEVER gives up, even after the final whistle. It might be his attitude is rubbing off on the team now, because they are really a bunch of no names that are playing together as a great team.

 

[jonno]

Good point. When Canberra won the GF in 1989 only the top 5 from 12 teams made the finals. Canberra had a slow start but a strong finish and made it into fifth. Some trainspotter can correct me but I think they were the first to qualify fifth and take out the final.

I would believe that too. Gary Freeman was disconsolate on the ground. They were the form team and they thought they had it. It is interesting that Sticky Stuart was playing that day. He is one guy who NEVER gives up, even after the final whistle. It might be his attitude is rubbing off on the team now, because they are really a bunch of no names that are playing together as a great team.

Laipana have to share a name between the two of them, that's how obscure they are.

But seriously are they on roids or something? They are massive and have huge motors. They've increased size and stamina at the same time. How have they done that?

 

[Maddog]

That analogy doesnt really fit the NRL, teams have to hover at a 50 percent win rate or higher.

They need to be in the top 4 to win the competition which means about 16wins (and 2 byes) from 26 rounds. It is incredibly rare for a team outside the top 4 to win.

A 50% win rate gets 1 team into the finals, and that is the team with the best points differential. That team would need to have close losses throughout the season.

Getting below 50% win rate means teams have to make up games just to get back to 50, just to get a chance to get into the bottom 4, a position where history tells us it is unlikely they are good enough to win a competition.

So it really is a sprint throughout

All I was implying was the competition isn't over after 8 rounds.

It's far from over and the top 4 is far from decided.

 

[davewjnz]

All I was implying was the competition isn't over after 8 rounds.

It's far from over and the top 4 is far from decided.

Your analogy may apply to the Warriors making finals footy however
or whenever...

 

[Maddog]

Your analogy may apply to the Warriors making finals footy however
or whenever...

Well to quote another common expression; My glass is still half full when when it comes to the Warriors making the play offs.

Top Four? That glass is covered in dust and needs a good clean!

 

[wallacenz]

All I was implying was the competition isn't over after 8 rounds.

It's far from over and the top 4 is far from decided.

I think you'd be surprised. I don't think any team outside the top 8 after 8games has ever gone on to win the comp in the last 20 years.

 

[AK57]

2 or 3 players plus the refs bias cost Warriors the game,but they have to be more clinical and outside backs need to be defensively strong to win close games against the top sides.

 

[Maddog]

I think you'd be surprised. I don't think any team outside the top 8 after 8games has ever gone on to win the comp in the last 20 years.

West Tigers 2005.

 

[wallacenz]

West Tigers 2005.

They were technically outside on points differential but they still had a 50 percent win rate. If the Warriors lose this weekend they will be 2 games blow 50 percent