Post Match NRL 2017 - Round 3 - Bulldogs Warriors Post Match Discussion

Game Information

Vs

01 Jan 1970 12:00
minute

Were you happy with the result?

  • HELL YES!

  • Yes

  • Yeah but they made it hard on themselves

  • No

  • $#@';*@"!?']{^


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WarriorBall

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Unless we can start committing the middle defenders first it doesn't matter who they have running off them- the defense will just keep sliding and we're easy pickings.

Bang on, we didn't earn't the right to go wide which made it easy for the Dogs to fan out on defence, it was generally one out stuff carting the ball forward through the middle for a slow play the ball. If we spent more time early trying to punch holes through their middle we would have eventually found more space out wide.

I dont know if the blueprint for the game was to play to the edges to get around their pack or if it just transpired that way but we've simply got to be smarter than that.
 
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The pack urgently needs a leader in a Burgess, Tamalolo type way. Someone who can bend the centre of the field and a quick play the ball while the defence is still going backwards. Without that it's not going to matter how good our completion rate is. Klemmer ran for about 200 metres from the bench. When was the last time a warriors forward did that?

2017 so far

IMG_6163.jpg
 
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We could have chased some forwards off to the UK or coming back, but chose to not add on the back of a horrible 2016 this blame lies squarely at the feet of Doyle. We moved heaven and earth to get TL but Doyle couldn't identify that our forwards got rolled last year, again blame with Doyle. Here is what we could do, promote Pauga and move Solo to hooker to share duties with bully then move to second row, our go forward would improve our backline movements. Anyway it won't happen, and 2017 is gone. If Roger Tuivasa-Sheck doesn't play the Dragons will smoke us.
What did Doyle do to you? Did he eat your lunch by mistake because you didn't put your name on it
 
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Vancent

🫣
Contributor
My take might be an unpopular one.

I was disheartened by the lack of flair on attack don't get me wrong.

My belief isn't that Kearney and co. are bad coaches or Doyle is a dud CEO, despite the masses saying otherwise.

My belief is that the very core of the Warriors stereotype is being stripped before our eyes and being rebuilt.

Outside arguments complain about the lack of structure in Warrior teams. Others complain that we rely too much on Magic from the Likes of Shaun Johnson to win us games.

However vs. Bulldogs we saw a back to basics, safe and structured style of footy the likes of Storm teams.

Fans didn't like it because, uh, it isn't Warrior ball.

The clear focus of Kearney and co. Is to hell with Warrior ball of old.

The myth that Warrior ball suits the style of our players is as far bent as us having the biggest pack in the Comp.

Because the young players coming through aren't confident enough to back themselves in the mantra of players past.

A series of confusing coach selections have brainwashed the creativity from the current crop of players minus a select few who just have it e.g. Johnson.

It started as early as Uncle Ivan - Matulinos offload an early casualty.

However, the confusion has suited Kearney because he's a student of structure.

Structure which leads to consistency.

Consistency which leads to sustained success.

Sustained success we have never had before at this club.

I'm ok with Kearney taking the boys back to basics because I trust there's a bigger picture.

Rebuilding Warrior ball. In a structured sense.

Kearney has to take This lot back to basics because our grassroots deny local grown talent the opportunity to be nurtured minus a select few eg. Mannering.

That's why Doyle has hand selected local talent which went abroad to learn footy the right way.

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck. Luke. Foz.

Although one of the 3 has been rather disappointing, you get the feel for what they are going for.

When we've had Roger Tuivasa-Sheck in the team the attack has clicked because Roger Tuivasa-Sheck links, runs holes, times passes, communicates and holds structure, but can also chime in with the unexpected.

He leads by example in the Mannering mantra.

Without him you've seen Shaun Johnson struggle to do the same thing. But he's tried - he understands the direction the teams going in its time for the supporting cast to get up to speed.

Another misconception is judging Doyle because he didn't do much recruitment this season.

Can't really do much when your Cap is tied with preexisting contracts like Manus, Matulinos, Hoffmans, Lillymans etc.

3 of those cap sucking contracts end this season. The other next season.

Doyle wants to recruit quality. Not for the sake of it.

This season is the dress rehearsal for who will survive the Warriors in the future. Doyle has already cut the dead wood he could floating in our NSW cup team.

Is it a coincidence they're tearing shit up first 3 rounds (our NSW cup team)? Who knows.

Our First Grade team was always going to take time to adjust. Only round 3 under a new regime and there are positives if you take the gray-tinted glasses off (aka only see the negatives because that's what we're used to).

We get Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Foz in.

Kearney sees that underperforming players make way for budding players in our NSW cup team.

Players will soon reliaise that they have to perform 110% every week to survive this new climate.

The boring, high completion no risk taking footy from this game will make sense when they accompany this with structured Warrior ball with calculated risk, which doesn't result in poor completions and high errors as it did in the past.

Consistency. Sustained success.

Doesn't happen overnight but if you trust the process it will happen.

The difference now is we have a process.
What a cracking post, measured, insightful and I think probably spot on.

Wish I could like it twice. Thanks Afakasi247 Afakasi247, you gave me my Sunday back ;)
 
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What a cracking post, measured, insightful and I think probably spot on.

Wish I could like it twice. Thanks Afakasi247 Afakasi247, you gave me my Sunday back ;)
I think its the opposite, fans didnt like it because the team were no different on defence and showed nothing on attack.

It's a real spin job to say this is somehow a good sign.
 
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WarriorBall

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I think its the opposite, fans didnt like it because the team were no different on defence and showed nothing on attack.

It's a real spin job to say this is somehow a good sign.

That's true if you look at the dogs game in isolation, no doubt we took a step backwards in that game but there were signs of very good attacking structured play particularly against the Knights and while we do still have issues with letting in soft tries especially from kicks we've been solid enough for the first 60 odd minutes in all these games, we couldn't say the same thing this time last season. There is in my view change apparent in this side, it's looking clunky and ugly at certain times but there's 23 rounds to go in this competition and It'd be naive to think Kearney could effect lasting change over this team in an offseason given what we witnessed last year.
 
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You can't get away from the fact Doyle has put his job on the line with 2017 season! if he thought 2017 was going to be successful after 2016 and no recruiting then that just shows me he is out of touch completely.
Over the last 5 years our NSW teams and NYC teams have not been a problem at all, so to draw a bow that 2017 NSW success leads to 2018 NRL success is just as delusional.
Also why chase Foz? won't be around 2018 and won't come back straight on point, so I can't for the life of me see why Doyle went after him? to me looks like someone that has no idea at all.
I love Tohu Harris but a hard working 2nd rower who at some stage Mooks will play at stand off is not what the Warriors need.
 
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Vancent

🫣
Contributor
I think its the opposite, fans didnt like it because the team were no different on defence and showed nothing on attack.

It's a real spin job to say this is somehow a good sign.
Your counterfactual can't be ignored or dismissed, but hopefully that game is a tree not the forest.

I can't recall but it would be interesting to compare Friday with what we looked like during the early months of the Cleary era.

It needs to get better this year or this will fast turn from fan forum to support group.
 
Your counterfactual can't be ignored or dismissed, but hopefully that game is a tree not the forest.

I can't recall but it would be interesting to compare Friday with what we looked like during the early months of the Cleary era.

It needs to get better this year or this will fast turn from fan forum to support group.
The Warriors struggled under Cleary too, he was working with a pretty mediocre roster most of the time. In 2011 he replaced the centres with Brown and Mannering, that was a masterstroke because suddenly the edges stopped leaking
 
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gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
Thought i would comment before reading all the posts and letting the negativity infect me.

Disappointed in the result.
The team attack was flat, and by that i mean they had no depth so it was line ball or kick it, because your runners were going to be 50/50 on if they get the ball before the opposition. I didnt like the attacking structure, and i still think that Fusitua at the back offers more than Lolo.
The dogs pack size dominated the warriors from the get go till the end.
The club must be looking to offload Manu by now. Hes a great, but his body cant do it anymore.
At times they looked clueless.

I'm pretty sure the Warriors play book reads. Right side: Get it to Shaun Johnson, he will pass to Roger Tuivasa-Sheck as he runs through to score. or Shaun Johnson pass to Bodene/Fusitua after the dummy to Roger Tuivasa-Sheck. (this doesnt work if Lolo is there pretending to be Roger Tuivasa-Sheck. Also easy to read as once its with Shaun Johnson you know its going wide right. It only works as often as it does because of the sheer talent of Shaun Johnson and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck.) Where are the dummy runners? where are the options? A sliding defense closes this down so fast.
Left side: Move it left until it gets to Kata, hope he scores. (the oppositions playbook reads wait for Kata to get the ball and then everyone rush him).

But

i saw some good signs out there.

Defense was better than last year, not great, but better. The team seem to have a focus of not letting in points and it was working.
Bunty impressed me.
Ata, got kicked around alot in that game but he stayed out there and kept trying. He was obviously targeted to take the shine off him and it worked.
Shaun Johnson as always was ready but with lolo not running on to the play he was left with little options. He did attempt to vary his kicking game but maybe he could push harder with banana kicks or just running on the last to try something unexpected.
Fusitua still impresses but i think hes wasted on the wing, he needs more ball. Get him back to centre which is supposed to be his role or FB cover with Bodene to replace if FB injured.
Maumalo looks ok as a direct replacement for Manu, good under the high ball and keen to hit it up. However if you want more than Manu you'll never like Maumalo.
I saw Lolo take catches on the full. Wow. Ok he dropped the important ones but i didnt think he had it in him.
Bodene's return was so needed. He looked good as a link man and you could see his energy. Pity Lolo wasnt there to play off him enough.
I actually saw one set move when Lillyman got the ball only to be denied by Grahame in an awesome last second tackle.

still disappointed in the result, but i see signs of things being worked on. Now if they would only spend a couple of weeks working on attack with Shaun Johnson as the dummy runner and not involved in every attacking play we might see some results.
 
Move Kata to hooker? The one player who has proven time and again that he cannot pass - put him at hooker?

He can actually pass. In fact he has a bullet pass. Was a halfback in his college union days. Not sure what the issue is now but maybe hooker is an option. Dummy half runs would be interesting. lol
 
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WarriorBall

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He can actually pass. In fact he has a bullet pass. Was a halfback in his college union days. Not sure what the issue is now but maybe hooker is an option. Dummy half runs would be interesting. lol

He's such a hungus he'd be trying to run from dummy half every other play.
 
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It's a real spin job to say this is somehow a good sign.
It's shortsighted to think we're in the same old predicament because of the first 3 rounds of the season.

The new club leadership over the time behind Doyle have set up the club for success.

Finally we have a Coaching staff built to teach and nurture success over a long period of time.

It Comes down to The players now - can't spin anything around that.

What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a rebuild. I have faith Kearney will seperate the weak from te strong and Doyle will wield the axe when prompted.

Might feel the same as yesteryear but the "journey" as they call it is much different.

Sharks lost their first few games last season before winning the ship. We went 0-3 before making the 2011 Grand Final.

Like Joel Embiid once said, Trust the Process ;)
 
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Mr Bob

Contributor
What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a rebuild. I have faith Kearney will seperate the weak from te strong and Doyle will wield the axe when prompted.

I didn't expect a rebuild - I expected improvement from last season.

improvements after 3 games - zip, zero, nada, nil, none.....
 
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It's shortsighted to think we're in the same old predicament because of the first 3 rounds of the season.

The new club leadership over the time behind Doyle have set up the club for success.

Finally we have a Coaching staff built to teach and nurture success over a long period of time.

It Comes down to The players now - can't spin anything around that.

What we are witnessing are the growing pains of a rebuild. I have faith Kearney will seperate the weak from te strong and Doyle will wield the axe when prompted.

Might feel the same as yesteryear but the "journey" as they call it is much different.

Sharks lost their first few games last season before winning the ship. We went 0-3 before making the 2011 Grand Final.

Like Joel Embiid once said, Trust the Process ;)
You can see that there is no evidence of this right?

It reminds me of people voting for Trump because of a feeling.
Edit: This wasnt meant to be an insult, its just the weird world we live in at the moment where we have access to all information and still manage to come to conclusions that seem to be contrary to all the evidence (I did it myself with Townsend).
 
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What/where is this talent you speak of? If by talent you mean the ability to hop around on the spot like a kangaroo stuck in cement or reversing into defensive lines, then sure the warriors are the most talented squad in the competition.

But do they have the ability to:
Concentrate for 80 minutes a week?
Stick to anything that resembles a plan?
Make good decisions at crucial times of matches?
Purely from observation I'm going to say no to all those things and unfortunately they are sort of necessary to win a premiership, no matter how good your coach is.

Talent may win U20 premierships but it doesn't win NRL ones.
100 % correct. There's plenty of talent in NZ problem is they're playing for other clubs.
It's almost like we recruit the players the others don't want
 
You can see that there is no evidence of this right?

It reminds me of people voting for Trump because of a feeling
Doyle has overhauled the club behind the scenes - Smarter recruitment, upgrades to Mt Smart, the images in the locker room of players passed who encompassesd what it means to be a Warrior, clear visions and long term realistic goals (no best team in Australasia Bullshit) which are openly communicated to directly to fans through annual forums and no media bullshit except what the Sydney media or the Mole decides to make up about us.

Doyle holds himself to a high standard - he's overhauled the NZRL and made sturdy change to the NRL itself.

He's brought in SK, who coached the Kiwis to their best spell of footy. He has been an understudy to 2 of the best Australian coaches who both endorse him, and has the mantra to demand respect from his playing group and is a figure who the playing group can relate to. He's tried and failed in the NRL before, we all know that.

Steve Mac has had success coaching England and was understudy to Trent Robinson and his consistent Roosters, also during their 2013 premiership.

Stacey Jones has had success coaching the U20s to the ship in 2014, his first year as coach, and then steered the ISP team to the finals in following years despite having roster disruptions due to First Grade injuries. A club legend and one of the faces on the wall in the locker room.

Cappy, well is Cappy but keeping him on board instead of the usual chop and change is a sign of consistency.

The platter isn't perfect - Doyle went out and got Issac Luke who hasn't really kicked on, Cappy might have been kept on a year too long, etc.

We're still inconsistent on field. Should have made the 8 in both 2015 and 16, injuries or not.

IMO, you still can't assess the regime of SK-Doyle over 3 games.

But I understand that results on field are the only indicator a fan cares about.

It sucks that SK hasn't clicked his fingers and we're the Melbourne Storm - but shit that was never gonna happen anyway.

What I'm commending Doyle for is cleaning up the internal mess - the broken foundation - of what the structure of the club was once standing on.

SK is now discovering some of the exisiting structure is rotten and needs to be demolished before being replaced.

Aka I hope SK and Doyle can make the Warriors great again.

;)
 
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He's such a hungus he'd be trying to run from dummy half every other play.
Justin Hodges made a career out of running from dummy half never saw him pass when he got to dummy half, Solo would give us so much front foot plays and time on the ball it is a sensible call, and I know he can pass, but alas it seems some warriors coaches just can't see it. 2017 dead
 
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