Post Match NRL 2016 - Round 24 - Cowboys vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

Game Information

Vs

01 Jan 1970 12:00
minute

Impressions of the teams effort?

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So how come Thompson doubles Hoffman's tackle count quite often?

Mannering would be best served in Hoffman's spot IMO. I know people will say we need him in the middle, but I'm getting tired of moving players because we need them to cover weaknesses elsewhere. Most teams have moved towards a prop at lock model and IMO that works best for us to gain some sort of parity in the middle.
Hoffman makes more runs and metres, go look at every NRL match stats. The 2nd rower who makes more runs makes less tackles, its a pretty common trend.
 

Jordan G

Guest
Hoffman makes more runs and metres, go look at every NRL match stats. The 2nd rower who makes more runs makes less tackles, its a pretty common trend.

I did. Hoffman makes more runs and/or metres than Thompson on average but not in every game. Thompson makes more tackles every game and in some cases as much as 20-30 tackles more. Considering Thompson is the more likely of the two to break the defensive line we've probably got that backwards.

They've only played half the games together though and interestingly, some of our better team performances are the ones where Thompson/Hoffman are generally close to even in both tackles and runs/metres. Rather than having players with individla defensive or offensive jobs (this isn't NFL) maybe we should be sharing the workload more amongst everyone.
 
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Some fans/posters were wanking on about Lolohea throwing an inside ball when he played wing in one of his early first games in first grade. A pass that most wingers in most other teams throw, yet Tui is a superstar in waiting, must be a good half, etc etc.

Seriously? Go back and watch that Canberra game again. That pass was better than any pass we've produced this season... Chad is still wondering how Tui pulled that off.

And if every winger could do that, tell me why we don't see it every game.

Tui is a special talent, but whether the potentiality of that talent bares fruit is dependent upon a NUMBER of factors... perhaps none more important than the coaching he receives, and his own individual will to succeed.
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Stats from the sites stats page. First number is season total. Second number is match average.

Metres gained. Starting with Ryan Hoffman in 5th place
Run metres.PNG


Tackles made. Starting with Bodene Thompson in 2nd place...
Tackles.PNG
 
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I did. Hoffman makes more runs and/or metres than Thompson on average but not in every game. Thompson makes more tackles every game and in some cases as much as 20-30 tackles more. Considering Thompson is the more likely of the two to break the defensive line we've probably got that backwards.

They've only played half the games together though and interestingly, some of our better team performances are the ones where Thompson/Hoffman are generally close to even in both tackles and runs/metres. Rather than having players with individla defensive or offensive jobs (this isn't NFL) maybe we should be sharing the workload more amongst everyone.
My point wasn't that it should be that way, I agree with you. I was arguing that just because Hoffman makes less tackles, doesn't mean he shows poor work ethic. I think that is where this began, but I suppose we reached an interesting point on whether one of them is assigned to be more defensive and the other more attacking because it is a common trend between those two.
 

Jordan G

Guest
Yeah, I certainly don't think Hoffman is making less tackles because of his work ethic or being lazy, I think there's something going on there that we aren't aware of (and Mt W seemed to shed some light on one possible cause). Certainly our current configuration isn't ideal for a few reasons. Not sure where the answer is going to come from though, at least not in time for next season.
 
Can you not read??? how is it flawed based on last nights stats??

I read very well thank you, even joined up running writing. JT played #13 and only one second rower and one bench player made more tackles than him and none came close to his running metres so your statement that running forwards make less tackles than defensive runs is incorrect on the evidence given by last nights forwards stats.
Any who, hows your colouring because I rock at that to.
 
Maybe Hoff is standing out wider, to help make Manus defensive corridor smaller, and therefore doesn't get as much heavy traffic coming his way?

I'm just speculating here, but it could be part of the defensive strategy... Which allows us to carry a slow turning prop on the wing.
 

Jordan G

Guest
Which once again would come back to a coach who has had 3 seasons to move away from that startegy.

If you have to weaken one area to cover for an obvious weakness elsewhere then it should be a priority to fix it. 3 seasons on and not only has it not been fixed in any way but we're now running titanics on both wings.

I think Cappy is just too stats driven. As long as Maumalo/Manu are making meteres they're golden. It's a flawed model that will be his downfall.
 
I think Cappy is just too stats driven. As long as Maumalo/Manu are making meteres they're golden. It's a flawed model that will be his downfall.
mind blown with this comment. like a wee lightbulb has gone off in my head. i believe interchanges are made based on stats. what else is based on stats? selections? game plan? i mean i get the importance of it but surely there is a time and place and you have to play whats infront of fyou

side note - im really jealous of the raiders. that crows looked epic. the way the clawed back from 16-4 down
 

Jordan G

Guest
I would say a large majority of what we do is stats/KPI driven. I've always felt that Cappy doesn't do things based on instinct and sometimes your gut is more important than anything else.

It's the impression I get when he talks about the back on the bench and finding a place to put him onto the field. You shouldn't be searching for it, you should either have a pre-existing plan or a gut feel based on the flow of the game.
 
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Hoffman plays left side, most teams hit their right side once per set if that. Usually the kick is coming back that way because for a right footed kicker it is easier to make consistent connection. Hoffman has more carries because of this, I know at this level you should be able run and pass both ways but Coaches have worked out that you make less mistakes coming out of your half hit the middle and down the left side. So Bodene makes more tackles because he gets more trafific, Manners makes most because he covers the middle and inside left edge, and the Hoff has to do fuck all. If I was Cappy I would change things up have Bodene and Hoffman swap sides every 20 mins because why the fuck not.
 

Inruin

Contributor
I forgot to add that even though I was amazing, a few years under Cappy and you'd never have known it. He played me out of position, and then when I stuffed up, he dropped me to the B team, and now here I am a bitter old man writing on this forum.
Typical, talking yourself up, believing the hype. If only you had worked on the areas of your game that needed it and accepted some responsibility for your stuff ups and attitude. Maybe you would have made it back and not have to be a bitter old man and blaming others? oh, what might have been if I just looked in the mirror at myself instead of looking for others to blame. :sour:
 
Typical, talking yourself up, believing the hype. If only you had worked on the areas of your game that needed it and accepted some responsibility for your stuff ups and attitude. Maybe you would have made it back and not have to be a bitter old man and blaming others? oh, what might have been if I just looked in the mirror at myself instead of looking for others to blame. :sour:
Can't look in the mirror too much, because I'd never get my workout in. :D

Seriously, I think a lot of the problem is that even when players have been interested in improving, they're just not getting taught the skills they need to improve. I think personal responsibility without support and information is not going to help anyone improve. Neither is punishment without support and information. But if you combine personal responsibility, support even if you make mistakes, mentoring, upskilling, and motivation, you've got a winning combination.
 
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