Post Match NRL 2016 - Round 23 - Warriors vs Rabbitohs Post Match Discussion

[Mike]

NRL 2016 - Round 23 - Warriors vs Rabbitohs Post Match Discussion
New Zealand Warriors ? vs ? South Sydney Rabbitohs
Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland

View attachment 19983​

Thread to share your thoughts on the Round 23 game between the Warriors and Rabbitohs after the match. Name your Man of the Match, discuss the coach, captain, starting team, bench, opposition, game tactics, substitutions, errors (or lack thereof), penalties (or lack thereof) highs, lows, refs etc.

Dont forget to rate the players... https://www.nzwarriors.com/matches/nrl-2016-round-23.73/

Well a game for dummies. Rabbitohs are a very strong talented team who play for each other consistently regardless if they win or not. Leagues a simple game if we had a team of strong talented individuals who would play for each other consistently we would more often than not win.

The Warriors have a fatal flaw-They do not offer Consistency nor at all times play to win. The desire is not always their. Desire comes from motivation. Is the Coach highly regarded by all players? Does he motivate them with desire? Unfortunately the answer to getting the balance right is also very fine. Its very easy to sack the Coach and very easy to let players go. The hard question is? What do we do next to change the situation. Also how long do we wait until the decision to make changes is arrived at? Or do we carry on in denial.

If we leave the Team and its whole management style as is, It is highly likely we will have the same result in 2017/18.

From my experience as a former player a Coach needs to continually examine his performance and make a decision as to his ability to coach and motivate a particular group of players. Success is the yard stick in a Coaches career. He must also make the hard decisions to drop players not capable of holding their positions in a team.

Players have very little responsibility. Have an off day and its acceptable. They have no one to answer to unless the Coach decides to drag them in for a talk. Generally they are overpaid and accordingly often under perform. Just look at results from this current squad. So what do we do, right now to get it right.

Does the Coach reconsider:
1) Playing positions: Not all players will adapt to a new position
2) Techniques and their implication: Defensive patterns, attacking lines to run etc.
3) Motivation and strategies

If you have read this far you will get the impression the buck starts and stops with the coach right?

Wrong very wrong! This current squad is sadly lacking in killer instinct, ability and commitment. In fact at least half this squad would find it extremely difficult to find another team to go to. I am not naming names but for the 2017/18 season we desperately need a complete team overhaul as we do appear to have a level of complacency in this group and that needs correction now.

Summary: It isn't the Coach The players need to be held accountable for their performances this Season and strong decisions made. You heard it here expect a player clean-out for next season.

 

[mt.wellington]

You heard it here expect a player clean-out for next season.

Great. Another rebuild with an automatic built in excuse for Cappy to continue his reign (of terror)...

 

[Still Vancent]

Well a game for dummies. Rabbitohs are a very strong talented team who play for each other consistently regardless if they win or not. Leagues a simple game if we had a team of strong talented individuals who would play for each other consistently we would more often than not win.

The Warriors have a fatal flaw-They do not offer Consistency nor at all times play to win. The desire is not always their. Desire comes from motivation. Is the Coach highly regarded by all players? Does he motivate them with desire? Unfortunately the answer to getting the balance right is also very fine. Its very easy to sack the Coach and very easy to let players go. The hard question is? What do we do next to change the situation. Also how long do we wait until the decision to make changes is arrived at? Or do we carry on in denial.

If we leave the Team and its whole management style as is, It is highly likely we will have the same result in 2017/18.

From my experience as a former player a Coach needs to continually examine his performance and make a decision as to his ability to coach and motivate a particular group of players. Success is the yard stick in a Coaches career. He must also make the hard decisions to drop players not capable of holding their positions in a team.

Players have very little responsibility. Have an off day and its acceptable. They have no one to answer to unless the Coach decides to drag them in for a talk. Generally they are overpaid and accordingly often under perform. Just look at results from this current squad. So what do we do, right now to get it right.

Does the Coach reconsider:
1) Playing positions: Not all players will adapt to a new position
2) Techniques and their implication: Defensive patterns, attacking lines to run etc.
3) Motivation and strategies

If you have read this far you will get the impression the buck starts and stops with the coach right?

Wrong very wrong! This current squad is sadly lacking in killer instinct, ability and commitment. In fact at least half this squad would find it extremely difficult to find another team to go to. I am not naming names but for the 2017/18 season we desperately need a complete team overhaul as we do appear to have a level of complacency in this group and that needs correction now.

Summary: It isn't the Coach The players need to be held accountable for their performances this Season and strong decisions made. You heard it here expect a player clean-out for next season.

Didn't we just have our second player clean out in 4yrs? I'm not sure there's anything left to clean out. I think there has been crucial results hinge on Cappy still learning his trade. Lately that's been an unexplainable use of the bench which has cost us games you'd normally lose if you had someone out injured in mins 1-2.

In his favour is the fact that he's had the boys playing a lot more consistently over the last two months.

On the counter though I think he's made far too many positional switches without any real need.

I'd happily keep this roster and go with an experienced coach.

Cleary was the only one left I'd take (no thanks to Toovey) but now we may have no other option other than keeping him.

 

[jonno]

Well a game for dummies. Rabbitohs are a very strong talented team who play for each other consistently regardless if they win or not. Leagues a simple game if we had a team of strong talented individuals who would play for each other consistently we would more often than not win.

The Warriors have a fatal flaw-They do not offer Consistency nor at all times play to win. The desire is not always their. Desire comes from motivation. Is the Coach highly regarded by all players? Does he motivate them with desire? Unfortunately the answer to getting the balance right is also very fine. Its very easy to sack the Coach and very easy to let players go. The hard question is? What do we do next to change the situation. Also how long do we wait until the decision to make changes is arrived at? Or do we carry on in denial.

If we leave the Team and its whole management style as is, It is highly likely we will have the same result in 2017/18.

From my experience as a former player a Coach needs to continually examine his performance and make a decision as to his ability to coach and motivate a particular group of players. Success is the yard stick in a Coaches career. He must also make the hard decisions to drop players not capable of holding their positions in a team.

Players have very little responsibility. Have an off day and its acceptable. They have no one to answer to unless the Coach decides to drag them in for a talk. Generally they are overpaid and accordingly often under perform. Just look at results from this current squad. So what do we do, right now to get it right.

Does the Coach reconsider:
1) Playing positions: Not all players will adapt to a new position
2) Techniques and their implication: Defensive patterns, attacking lines to run etc.
3) Motivation and strategies

If you have read this far you will get the impression the buck starts and stops with the coach right?

Wrong very wrong! This current squad is sadly lacking in killer instinct, ability and commitment. In fact at least half this squad would find it extremely difficult to find another team to go to. I am not naming names but for the 2017/18 season we desperately need a complete team overhaul as we do appear to have a level of complacency in this group and that needs correction now.

Summary: It isn't the Coach The players need to be held accountable for their performances this Season and strong decisions made. You heard it here expect a player clean-out for next season.

I thought we just had a player clean out and that we had the squad we need.

So sacking players hasn't worked, sacking coaches hasn't worked, changing owners hasn't worked.

What's left?

The fans!

We need to move the club to Australia. Then and only then will we have the fans we need to win.

Or we could hire someone to bring in a winning atmosphere to the club.

Sack the losers? A loser witch hunt would not be very PC I know, but it just might work.

 

[Dunedin warrior]

We've got no room for a clean out for next year, the remaining players coming off contract are all on peanuts. Off contract at the end of next season are Hoffman, Matulino and Lillyman. That will give us plenty of room to upgrade the forward pack.

On the plus side the squad with the exception of Leuluai will be back next year plus hopefully a forward of starting calibre. More experience and hopefully our young talent can take another step forward. It's taken the sharks and raiders a long time to get where they have got to. It will probably be the same for us.

Prior to the souths game we were playing well, hopefully this is just a blip and we bounce back, we will see next week.

 

[Mr Brownstone]

Well a game for dummies. Rabbitohs are a very strong talented team who play for each other consistently regardless if they win or not. Leagues a simple game if we had a team of strong talented individuals who would play for each other consistently we would more often than not win.

The Warriors have a fatal flaw-They do not offer Consistency nor at all times play to win. The desire is not always their. Desire comes from motivation. Is the Coach highly regarded by all players? Does he motivate them with desire? Unfortunately the answer to getting the balance right is also very fine. Its very easy to sack the Coach and very easy to let players go. The hard question is? What do we do next to change the situation. Also how long do we wait until the decision to make changes is arrived at? Or do we carry on in denial.

If we leave the Team and its whole management style as is, It is highly likely we will have the same result in 2017/18.

From my experience as a former player a Coach needs to continually examine his performance and make a decision as to his ability to coach and motivate a particular group of players. Success is the yard stick in a Coaches career. He must also make the hard decisions to drop players not capable of holding their positions in a team.

Players have very little responsibility. Have an off day and its acceptable. They have no one to answer to unless the Coach decides to drag them in for a talk. Generally they are overpaid and accordingly often under perform. Just look at results from this current squad. So what do we do, right now to get it right.

Does the Coach reconsider:
1) Playing positions: Not all players will adapt to a new position
2) Techniques and their implication: Defensive patterns, attacking lines to run etc.
3) Motivation and strategies

If you have read this far you will get the impression the buck starts and stops with the coach right?

Wrong very wrong! This current squad is sadly lacking in killer instinct, ability and commitment. In fact at least half this squad would find it extremely difficult to find another team to go to. I am not naming names but for the 2017/18 season we desperately need a complete team overhaul as we do appear to have a level of complacency in this group and that needs correction now.

Summary: It isn't the Coach The players need to be held accountable for their performances this Season and strong decisions made. You heard it here expect a player clean-out for next season.

There won't be a player clean out - one look at what is available makes that fairly obvious.
We had a shocker last night, most players were well off the level they've played at for the last couple of months. However take a look at a few other games this round - upsets happen, teams can have the odd shocker and lose to a side well below them on the table. Lets judge after next week.

 

[Jordan G]

Yeah I'm not too sure who or how we can cleanout this year. The young guys are making some mistakes because they're young guys learning. If we replace them then we're relying on even younger guys like Afoa/Sipley to fill the void and isn't that just likely to result in the same thing with the grind of NRL?

Then there's the older guys on good coin who might not be delivering, but again, that makes it unlikely we'll be able to offload them for full value and if we're just eating into our own cap isn't that once again repeating mistakes of the past?

Then there's the question of where the replacements are going to come from.

 

[Brother Faisal]

First things first. Full credit to the rabbitohs. probably the only team to watch video on us and create a gameplan of exploiting it effectively in the last few weeks. They're video guy has done a great job and they had the right personnel to execute it.

I don't think we thought we could win by just turning up. I felt like we genuinely prepared for this game but we didnt expect the other team to have a different gameplan to the one we expected them to have. That to me was truely worrying.

The team looked absolutely bamboozled once they figured out what was happening. after the 3rd or 4th try souths scored they looked scared shitless. they werent mentally prepared for what souths was gonna bring and they werent told that was gonna happen by any coaching staff from the looks of it.

Everything that i would say has been said in this thread. The only players on this team who i dont think are playing to their potential are probably Shaun Johnson and matulino. two extreme talents that most times are content to being mediocre. For the most part everyone else is playing close to their potential even the young guns like lolohea, kata, fusitua cant get any better this year, they will need the off season to work on weaknesses before we can get anymore out of them.

this team is average, lets accept it. im not going to argue positions anymore for this year, i dont care who plays what position. its over for me and last weeks game against the titans i felt like it was 2011 again then im reminded this week that somethings havent changed in the last 5 years. we are where we're suppose to be on the ladder. and like every other year since 2011 have finished on the ladder in exactly the right spot based on talent.

recruitment and development will always be the curse of this team. never been able to sign big aussie talent and letting go of genuine talent to aussie clubs. that is our curse.

this is the first game since canberra in taranaki where i didnt see 100% percent effort, the players for mine have turned a corner but if you take a week off mentally and as an entire club in the nrl your just as good as last.

 

[Off The Bench]

Yep we lost an played like rubbish , But the big question is are we getting Better?
I'm not expecting anything against the Cowboys they have made really good teams
Look ordinary ,
The last couple of games we have shown improvement I hope we can
get back to that

 

[dean]

Is Ken the new Sione?

 

[Jordan G]

Is Ken the new Sione?

Ken has been put in an awful situation, but he does try hard, doesn't hide from the tough stuff. He's a good player, but not a good winger. I think he has far more upside than Sione, provided he's removed from the wing ASAP.

 

[Far North Forever]

Is Ken the new Sione?

What do you know bro is he a fucktard on the juice?

 

[Play The Ball]

Well a game for dummies. Rabbitohs are a very strong talented team who play for each other consistently regardless if they win or not. Leagues a simple game if we had a team of strong talented individuals who would play for each other consistently we would more often than not win.

The Warriors have a fatal flaw-They do not offer Consistency nor at all times play to win. The desire is not always their. Desire comes from motivation. Is the Coach highly regarded by all players? Does he motivate them with desire? Unfortunately the answer to getting the balance right is also very fine. Its very easy to sack the Coach and very easy to let players go. The hard question is? What do we do next to change the situation. Also how long do we wait until the decision to make changes is arrived at? Or do we carry on in denial.

If we leave the Team and its whole management style as is, It is highly likely we will have the same result in 2017/18.

From my experience as a former player a Coach needs to continually examine his performance and make a decision as to his ability to coach and motivate a particular group of players. Success is the yard stick in a Coaches career. He must also make the hard decisions to drop players not capable of holding their positions in a team.

Players have very little responsibility. Have an off day and its acceptable. They have no one to answer to unless the Coach decides to drag them in for a talk. Generally they are overpaid and accordingly often under perform. Just look at results from this current squad. So what do we do, right now to get it right.

Does the Coach reconsider:
1) Playing positions: Not all players will adapt to a new position
2) Techniques and their implication: Defensive patterns, attacking lines to run etc.
3) Motivation and strategies

If you have read this far you will get the impression the buck starts and stops with the coach right?

Wrong very wrong! This current squad is sadly lacking in killer instinct, ability and commitment. In fact at least half this squad would find it extremely difficult to find another team to go to. I am not naming names but for the 2017/18 season we desperately need a complete team overhaul as we do appear to have a level of complacency in this group and that needs correction now.

Summary: It isn't the Coach The players need to be held accountable for their performances this Season and strong decisions made. You heard it here expect a player clean-out for next season.

I like your post but I totally disagree with the player clean out thing. It won't happen. Why? They have no room to move cap space wise. The best they could do is move someone like Vatuvei who might still command a big enough deal to avoid having to pay him out anything. I doubt that will happen though.

 

[ToiletDuck]

No way are we headed for a player clean-out. If anything we're headed for a 4th year with Cappy in charge, with almost no significant changes to the roster. There has been considerable time, effort and $$ spent on the development of a lot of our young guys, particularly in the backline. The only overhaul that would be warranted or possible would be the forwards...guys like Lillyman, Hoffman, Matulino or even Simon (even though he's a colossus in midfield). Our forwards are definitely our weak point at present IMO. Once they get on the front foot then they go okay, but chasing a game against a good pack and you can see why Cappy is so set on having two props on the wing..

 

[jonno]

No way are we headed for a player clean-out. If anything we're headed for a 4th year with Cappy in charge, with almost no significant changes to the roster. There has been considerable time, effort and $$ spent on the development of a lot of our young guys, particularly in the backline. The only overhaul that would be warranted or possible would be the forwards...guys like Lillyman, Hoffman, Matulino or even Simon (even though he's a colossus in midfield). Our forwards are definitely our weak point at present IMO. Once they get on the front foot then they go okay, but chasing a game against a good pack and you can see why Cappy is so set on having two props on the wing..

We always struggle against the Burgess brothers. If we could get one of them over here.

Sipley and Gavet would have been useful in that game imo..

 

[Weno]

Reynolds was outstanding.
I think he would of nailed any other team with his A class kicking performance.
But our lack of reaction to cover or read Reynolds was a shocker.

This week end we face Thurston who offers a better kicking and all round game.

So coming from a Cappy view,lmao.
Maumalo will turn into Jonno Wright which in reality I see will be the only change.
Hope he makes a change or two though , or goes all out and plays Hingano ,Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad , Wells etc.

But I doubt it.

 

[koolkat]

Just call us the nz Knights.next season.great

 

[koolkat]

Reynolds was outstanding.
I think he would of nailed any other team with his A class kicking performance.
But our lack of reaction to cover or read Reynolds was a shocker.

This week end we face Thurston who offers a better kicking and all round game.

So coming from a Cappy view,lmao.
Maumalo will turn into Jonno Wright which in reality I see will be the only change.
Hope he makes a change or two though , or goes all out and plays Hingano ,Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad , Wells etc.

But I doubt it.

Why it's not the backs.wells has a case for full back fix up the positional awareness.but the only change needed is Bunty and maybe gavet

 

[eric]

Yesterday's game really showed us our flaws and what we need to do next season and that requires releasing some players that dont make the grade. Leading that list is Maumalo that kid didnt show any heart and desire plus he offers nothing attacking apart from hit ups and defensively? Very poor. I've seen dead people move faster than he did! We should have let him go to the dragons but we got excited over 1 or 2 decent games and a contract till 2018

Yep the club were handing out contracts like they were going out of fashion - I'm mainly talking about Lolohea, Lisone & Maumolo. Couple of good games and bam you're signed up for another 4 years. Same could've been said for Kata & Vete but they have actually made a conscious effort to be better players this year.

Ahwell we're stuck with them now unless Jimbo can pull something outta the hat

 

[Alexradisich]

McFadden is not a coach. No dominate wins this season, our defense has risen, however this would all be on a defensive coach

Care to explain how to target Reynolds and the big Rabbitohs pack? It is easy to say but what do you actually do to make it happen?

Pressure on Reynolds before he kicks?
Hard Hitting Tackles on Souths Forward Pack, similar to Dylan Napa's efforts when Roosters played Souths

Could start with something like that, Im no coach but I have seen both work against Souths in previous games played this year

Games are won on defense, and what I saw on the weekend was the ease of ability for Souths to roll from one end of the paddock to another within a single set