Post Match NRL 2016 - Round 20 - Raiders vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

[Stone]

So you don't even try, you give up. But you're wrong. Look at the tape again. Those three players didn't know what Croker was going to do, so they watched instead of making an angle run to the try line in the corner to cut him off. So you are encouraging trotting instead of running. This isn't horse races.

Pretty harsh assessment IMO bro

Shaun Johnson is obviously way less than 100% (Crocker ran him down with ease when Shaun Johnson made that break in the first half), Fusitua had actually come from the left side of the posts & did well IMO to even be in that position (as did a flying Lolohea who actually got the closest, but Crocker still gassed him as well) & Afoa was always done for pace & by the numbers the Raiders had out there

The far FAR greater concern for me was Leilua & Rapana making Kata, Maumalo & Hoffman look decidedly less than average when they made that initial break down our left edge which led directly to the try, our line (especially our right edge) never recovered in time after that which essentially gave Canberra a 3 on 1 overlap which they were always going to score from if they got the ball out there, which they obviously did

If the Warriors had actually managed to stop Canberra from scoring in that position then it would have been the defensive play of the last two seasons from us IMO

 

[diehard]

Pretty harsh assessment IMO bro

Shaun Johnson is obviously way less than 100% (Crocker ran him down with ease when Shaun Johnson made that break in the first half), Fusitua had actually come from the right side of the posts & did well IMO to even be in that position (as did Lolohea who got the closest but Crocker still gassed him as well) & Afoa was always done for pace & by the numbers Canberra had out there

The far FAR greater concern for me was Leilua & Rapana making Kata, Maumalo & Hoffman look decidedly less than average when they made that initial break down our left edge which led to the try, our line (especially our right edge) never recovered in time after that which essentially gave Canberra a 3 on 1 overlap which they were always going to score from if they got the ball out there, which they obviously did

If the Warriors had actually managed to stop Canberra from scoring in that position then it would have been the defensive play of the last two seasons from us IMO

Yeah, lots of reasons to not try to stop Croker. That's why some teams win and some lose. Shaun Johnson I can understand to some extent. But none of the three knew he was gonna go to the corner. If he cut back, they still wouldn't have gotten there. Sorry, but all out effort, especially if it's a game decider, is my motto.

 

[gREVUS]

Ikin made a comment similar to what Bruce mentioned about getting the bench right prior to round 1. My take on that was Bennett was debating how he was going to structure his lineup with the reduction in the interchange. He decided to hold back a few players to strengthen his bench, I'm guessing he'd expect some guys to play longer from the bench. Ikin made the comment along the lines of Bennett checked the other sides to check what the other coaches had done and felt confident he'd got it right.

Bennett dropped Blair after about 5 rounds. A lot was made of the decision but remembering the quote Ikin made I thought he was just strengthening his bench to avoid a drop off after 20 minutes when the bench players come on. That is the benefit of an experienced coach.

I knda remember that comment from when Ikin made it, it was in reference to a game from previous years not this one. I posted in the sack cappi thread about it at the time. ill see if i can find the reference

edit:
Found your comment from round 3, but couldnt find the one i wrote on the night Ben said it, maybe it was last year? or maybe i cant do a search to save myself as i did a quick search on the word Ben and got zero results as well....

 

[surfin]

So you don't even try, you give up. But you're wrong. Look at the tape again. Those three players didn't know what Croker was going to do, so they watched instead of making an angle run to the try line in the corner to cut him off. So you are encouraging trotting instead of running. This isn't horse races.

I'm not encouraging anything, just stating I don't think Usain Bolt would have covered the distance to stop Croker you feel Shaun Johnson could have. Besides what difference would cutting him off have made, scoring the try ended the game.

 

[roadrunner]

In some ways i wish the warriors season had of ended on Saturday so I can get a new heart replacement in time for next season. Agree with alot of the rest of you over what was going to happen from game one and now we are just heading down the end of season path as always. We need some hard mongrels to be able to actually score when we are hard on attack. There were times against the Raiders when we danced backwards and forwards in front of their goal line like fairies in Swan Lake. So much talent on hand trouble is McFadden has not managed to change anything. Roll on Panthers and who knows it could be golden point number 4 cmon warriors give us a win for once.

 

[bruce]

The far FAR greater concern for me was Leilua & Rapana making Kata, Maumalo & Hoffman look decidedly less than average when they made that initial break down our left edge which led directly to the try,

The whole three need to hang their heads in shame for that effort. That was not FG standard, especially from the Captain.

 

[Stone]

As painful as it was I forced myself to rewatch the game earlier to see if I was right in my recollection of the final try by Canberra (see above)

But all that aside I have to give some credit where credit is due & then some

Manu Vatuvei is often much maligned on this forum for a plethora of reasons, some of it warranted & some of it ... not so much

One thing Vatuvei is often heavily criticised for by many, including myself, is his ball handling skills or lack thereof

But that opening try he scored was a thing of sheer beauty when it comes to freakish ball handling

The Beast was in full flight when he received that pass from Fusitua, which was high above Manu's right shoulder & behind him

Manu, again in full flight, reaches back with his right hand & tips the ball on over his head into his left had & then juggles it into both of his hands to dive in for a one handed ripper in his right hand

Even the commentator felt compelled to call Vatuvei ... The Magician ... a term we don't often (if ever) associate with The Beast

Manu has undoubtedly had his fair share of shockers when it comes to his hands, but that try was about as freakish as it gets, in terms of ball handling skills

What a spectacular way to bring up 150 FG tries & as freakishly awesome as it was it only adds to further the enigmatic qualities of The Beast

Just as an aside ... has anyone EVER seen a prop pull off anything even close to that ? ... me thinks not (blatant & shameless attempt at pot stirring lol)

 

[diehard]

I'm not encouraging anything, just stating I don't think Usain Bolt would have covered the distance to stop Croker you feel Shaun Johnson could have. Besides what difference would cutting him off have made, scoring the try ended the game.

I just think it's important to make an effort to try and stop a try rather than trot over and see what happens. I just saw it again on the highlights, and Shaun Johnson went after the kicker, but he, and Afoa and Fusitua trotted over. Lolo, btw, ran like hell for leather and almost got Croker on the try line. Effort, my friend, effort.

 

[Brother Faisal]

As painful as it was I forced myself to rewatch the game earlier to see if I was right in my recollection of the final try by Canberra (see above)

But all that aside I have to give some credit where credit is due & then some

Manu Vatuvei is often much maligned on this forum for a plethora of reasons, some of it warranted & some of it ... not so much

One thing Vatuvei is often heavily criticised for by many, including myself, is his ball handling skills or lack thereof

But that opening try he scored was a thing of sheer beauty when it comes to freakish ball handling

The Beast was in full flight when he received that pass from Fusitua, which was high above Manu's right shoulder & behind him

Manu, again in full flight, reaches back with his right hand & tips the ball on over his head into his left had & then juggles it into both of his hands to dive in for a one handed ripper in his right hand

Even the commentator felt compelled to call Vatuvei ... The Magician ... a term we don't often (if ever) associate with The Beast

Manu has undoubtedly had his fair share of shockers when it comes to his hands, but that try was about as freakish as it gets, in terms of ball handling skills

What a spectacular way to bring up 150 FG tries & as freakishly awesome as it was it only adds to further the enigmatic qualities of The Beast

Just as an aside ... has anyone EVER seen a prop pull off anything even close to that ? ... me thinks not (blatant & shameless attempt at pot stirring lol)

I think another reason people arent so high on manu in par has nothing to do with him. The ropati years was when he would get so much ball and was specifically set up to get one on ones with the winger which we all know is manus game to a t. Unfortunately Kata has dropped Manu's value since he's never passed to his left before in his life.

Even manu 2014-15 with the kiwis was huge mainly because the likes of Foran, Johnson, Hiku set him up with great one on ones and he delivered the goods. He's become ancient at the warriors due to not being used effectively. I've called for his number but thats because he hasnt been used properly at the warriors since about 2012-13 or so, i dont know what happened, he used to get open breaks like crazy on hit ups, he would see alot more open field. Hes figuratively and literally been put in a box due to his role solely being 1st carry guy. I dont like it but thats the way this team plays him. I just wish he would be better utilised in the red zone with the "kata" out pass (cutout pass but literally cutting kata out) from fullback but more on the hands unlike behind him even though he pulled one out of the hat.

 

[WellingtonOrca]

My main criticism of Manu this year and probably last year as well is his refusal to catch attacking kicks and instead for a 50/50 bat-back to no-one. Same thing goes for Kata as well actually, so you've got to think it's a coaching thing.

 

[diehard]

Yeah, but it is what it is. If Kata won't pass him the ball, that's the reality of Manu's situation until Kata changes, or he gets replaced. BTW, like last year, he did so much better in the first half of the year.

 

[gREVUS]

My main criticism of Manu this year and probably last year as well is his refusal to catch attacking kicks and instead for a 50/50 bat-back to no-one. Same thing goes for Kata as well actually, so you've got to think it's a coaching thing.

my view on this is they are normally so heavily out numbered by the defence that there is little chance of getting the ball to ground if they have to go into the air to receive it, therefore the better option it to keep it live if possible with a bat back.
Kata running beside Manu makes it easy for the defence to number up on them. IMO it would work better if he ran inside Hoffman and Manu outside, splitting the defenders and possibly making a hole for Hoffman to slip through. Course that still means Kata has to learn to pass...

 

[Alexradisich]

Majority of comments on here slamming Shaun Johnson & co for not chasing down Crocker. Yet all fail to see there would have been no need to chase had Hoffman, Kata or Maumalo made the simple 1 on 1 tackle prior

 

[diehard]

Majority of comments on here slamming Shaun Johnson & co for not chasing down Crocker. Yet all fail to see there would have been no need to chase had Hoffman, Kata or Maumalo made the simple 1 on 1 tackle prior

True. And Aysford had made his tackle prior. But the prior mistake does not support the following mistake.

 

[unclesteve]

Just gonna leave this here.
From NRL.com's Team of the Week...

3. Jarrod Croker (Raiders)

The Raiders captain brilliantly set up one try and scored a hat-trick himself in his side's 26-22 golden point victory over the Warriors.

4. Konrad Hurrell (Titans)

A try, a try assist and eight tackle breaks – life is certainly treating Titans mid-season recruit Hurrell well following his starring role against the Eels.

5. Jordan Rapana (Raiders)

Rapana made a whopping 11 tackle breaks and set up teammate Joey Leilua's crucial late try in the Raiders' win.

 

[Mr Brownstone]

4. Konrad Hurrell (Titans)

A try, a try assist and eight tackle breaks – life is certainly treating Titans mid-season recruit Hurrell well following his starring role against the Eels.

Not bad for a bloke who has never been up to NRL level (according to someone on here that is PAID to give an opinion). But who really cares when we have Ayshford.

 

[mode81]

Not bad for a bloke who has never been up to NRL level (according to someone on here that is PAID to give an opinion). But who really cares when we have Ayshford.

No no everyone has stats that back up Ayshford and Konrad is shit. People that know rugby league apparently.

 

[Mr Brownstone]

No no everyone has stats that back up Ayshford and Konrad is shit. People that know rugby league apparently.

People that are asked politely by Doyle to provide an opinion that appeases him and controls the masses

 

[mode81]

People that are asked politely by Doyle to provide an opinion that appeases him and controls the masses

That's why I stopped replying to blowhards that think they know better then everyone else.

 

[facefacts]

Just gonna leave this here.
From NRL.com's Team of the Week...

3. Jarrod Croker (Raiders)

The Raiders captain brilliantly set up one try and scored a hat-trick himself in his side's 26-22 golden point victory over the Warriors.

4. Konrad Hurrell (Titans)

A try, a try assist and eight tackle breaks – life is certainly treating Titans mid-season recruit Hurrell well following his starring role against the Eels.

5. Jordan Rapana (Raiders)

Rapana made a whopping 11 tackle breaks and set up teammate Joey Leilua's crucial late try in the Raiders' win.

Hurrell was always pretty good with ball in hand and will have some amazing games when everything is going his way, the problem starts when he doesn't have the ball and the opposition does, at that point he's a joke, an absolute bludger.

Maybe he will pull his head out of his arse now he's left the Warriors and all his back slapping bro's behind, i hope so because i was always a big fan of his ability, but couldn't stand his pathetic effort levels when it came to the less glamorous aspects of the game.

Unfortunately his first instinct will always be to quit rather than chase.