Post Match NRL 2016 - Round 10 - Panthers vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

Game Information

Vs

01 Jan 1970 12:00
minute

Win or lose, we you happy with the effort?

  • Yes

  • OK

  • No

  • NO WAY!


Results are only viewable after voting.
Afakasi247

Afakasi247

Kata has been charged with dangerous contact on Soward. If found guilty out for a week.
That pisses me off. The little cu** milked it hard.

Laugh how there's no talk about Mansours swing on Lolohea earlier in the match. Pretty much the same circumstance here - even to the fact Lolohea tried to milk it also.

Kata's shown a little ill dicipline in the last few weeks. I'm all for him showing passion but he's got to control it.

Plus I don't want to see an excuse for Hurrell to walk back in the team (if he's still around that is...)
 
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diehard

We've tried at least 7 props so far. Tell me, who do you choose, and how do you teach them to play since they ARE pussies? They play soft and don't want to get hurt.
 

Dunedin warrior

We've tried at least 7 props so far. Tell me, who do you choose, and how do you teach them to play since they ARE pussies? They play soft and don't want to get hurt.

It's hard to work out. Lillyman by in large has been good. Matulino has been definitely down on form from last year which is huge because he is our pack leader. Vete is not as good as last either maybe 2nd season syndrome? Gavet has been a mixed bag. Lisone has real talent but needs to be consistently playing 1st grade to develop that week in week out effort and hasn't been helping himself off the field. Sipley is promising but raw and needs to be developed carefully. Gubb tries hard but is probably not up to having a regular 1st grade spot.

The ingredients are there but the inconsistency is huge, hence the lose one win one roller coaster we are on.
 
Freddie Futler

Freddie Futler

The four things wrong with out team.

1. No Brains

2. No Alpha Male

3. Lack of confidence

4. They are afraid of heights


No Brains.
There is not one thinking player in the whole team. Playing with a howling gale they are struggling to get out of their 20 with the panthers rushing defense and not one player/coach/waterboy suggest to go for a 40-20 on the 3rd tackle? The use/lack of use of the wind was mystifying. LoLo gets a high shot and lacks the nous to stay down like all other thinking teams do so that the bunker calls a penalty.


No Alpha male. There is not one person in the team that says follow me and intimidates the opposition, Gubb comes the closest but is as bright as a two watt bulb. With no pack leader they are like headless chooks.


Lack of confidence. The team seems to be afraid of making mistakes which makes things worse. The moment you start focusing on the mistakes they invariably happen. Train under pressure to eliminate the basic errors. The most common error I see is POOR PASSING. Passes from dummy half in particular should be bread and butter at this level.


Afraid of heights. Always seems that if they go too high up the championship ladder they get the shakes.


Critique

All the other teams have worked out that if the ball receiver steams onto the ball from 10 meters back then the forwards gain more metres. What we are seeing now is that the majority of times the Dummy half is a bit slow and the passes are inevitably forward but the refs are letting them get away with it meanwhile our forwards are flat when they get the ball and are lucky to gain five metres.


I will only mention one player LoLohea, he is a great winger and should never play any other position.
 
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Sup42

Sup42

It would be interesting to know the reasoning for some of the selections for this game.

Leuluai wasn't terrible last night and his defense was good to see; but the combination of Johnson and Leuluai seemed like to halves organising a side of the field each. Whereas last week with a makeshift lineup Johnson and Robson combined really well I thought. Instead of looking like two guys organising their own side of the field it looked like they were working together as there were some nice shifts from one side of the field to the other when the space was out wide.

Then there is fullback. When Roger Tuivasa-Sheck went down Lolohea was the logical replacement unless they decided to persevere with him at 6. But when he was injured Fusitua was a revelation as his replacement.

I'd love to know how much the coaching staff debated these options as the spine against the Dragons although not being what they wanted on paper worked really well. The easy option once Leuluai and Lolohea were available was to select the players in the positions they did which they probably feel is their strongest line up. We seem to feel Leuluai needs to be in the side despite not playing enough football. Did what we see from him before his injury deserve to replace Robson after his performance against the Dragons?
I thought our passing reverted to clunky inaccurate ball which demanded a lot of extra effort from the receiver to catch that ball behind your back or aimed at your head.

That micro skills issue, then saw our set moves stuffed....as each player in the link was out of time with the rest, quite often that meant that the last pass option was not there.....in which case the movement would end with someone being forced to take the tackle.

They were trying, and they tried to play set plays at speed....but if your marquee half has inconsistent micro skills (still talking ball movement here) and so are prone to passing some crooked lines, interspersed with some lazer like genius balls....then it puts even more pressure on the other half to be a precision passer.


That's just passing.

Kicking we see the same issue, and to my way of thinking it is no longer acceptable to buy budget Stand offs like Robson and TL.

Unless you are prepared to admit Johnson is incomplete, while also being an icing on the cake game winning genius....then the Warriors will never wake up to need to actually employ a half who will need to be just as expensive ala Cronk/Foran level of Star.

The third option is they bite the bullet, flick Johnson and purchase a functional pair of halves that can fluidly move the ball in a structured way and thereby use the entire squads strengths as a unit.


That will taste like sick to many, but I see the Warriors inconsistencies as being born out of a NZ league system that develops incomplete players with flair....they thereby need people to be their 'foils' to make up for their weaknesses. This foil thinking would need an unlimited Salary cap ala the Kiwis, to be a feasible way of balancing out a Warriors side.

The next dire area that has imbalanced the Warriors, is what I will call defensive foils for our locally developed edge players.

So where we have 'only try's they can score' outside backs.....we again are forced to look at defensive foils to compensate for incomplete skill sets. So again we are looking at salary cap blowing signings like a Whare or a Lyon (actually needed both to cover for the type we have on our right and left).

Blake Ayshford is a fluke. Another astute gamble ala Maloney, an example where the Warriors rolled the dice and got what they speculated on.

At the same time so called low risk expensive investment in the hooking position,and fb...raises questions around whether we got bang for our buck there.

Comparing Tevanga and Fusitua to Luke and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck....you would have to say resounding No .....we didn't win on the Recruitment roulette table in 2016.

Excuse the ran t and let me be the first to admit hindsight is 20/20 but....

The money in some of these guys is interesting. I don't know the correct figures but at a guess:

Hurrell 500k (replacement Ayshford).

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck 800k (replacements Fusitua, Lolohea, Wells)

Vatuvei 450 k (replacements Allwood, Fusitua, Wells, Kata).

Matulino 700k ( Replacement Sipley).

Luke 700k (Tevanga Leuluai)

Now these figures are guesses as I said which include third party agreements.

I'm sure Mt Welly will dispute those figures (good...a correction will still be significant money to support this,argument).

Throw in Johnson who will be on as much as Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, and Mannering 700k + Hoffman's 650.....and you have the seeds of an Ill culture, since our senior players.....for the longest time....have been our most inconsistent.... Our most needing of a 'foil' ( some hard working fkwit most likely transplanted from the Storm ) who is meant to join the Circus and somehow transform it to a Military elite culture single handed (sorry folks, Kevin Campion is a War general in a thousand).

In Summary, the reserve grade coach, and the jnrs coach, at the Warriors needs to be a big name with a solid record of man management and skills development. These are not Cap restricted expenses. Eric needs to encourage his buddies to pay the money to get the like of Kearney and Clearly/Anderson here as under coaches (Kidwell is another)......they also need to accept that fan disenchantment no longer deamads they Roll out the Warriors players who are protected species.

Half the total cap is being wasted.

If you flicked all of our 'great team on paper' roster tomorrow, you could buy any Super massive Prop you wanted, two functional smart halves, two super centers, and use the depth players to roll out a gutsy eighty minute NRL team worth watching.
 
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wallacenz

wallacenz

I̥ͦ l̥ͦi̥ͦk̥ͦe̥ͦ S̥ͦJ̥ͦ b̥ͦu̥ͦt̥ͦ h̥ͦe̥ͦ i̥ͦs̥ͦ ḁͦ l̥ͦi̥ͦḁͦb̥ͦi̥ͦl̥ͦi̥ͦt̥ͦy̥ͦ. T̥ͦh̥ͦe̥ͦ f̥ͦi̥ͦr̥ͦs̥ͦt̥ͦ t̥ͦw̥ͦo̥ͦ t̥ͦr̥ͦi̥ͦe̥ͦs̥ͦ w̥ͦe̥ͦr̥ͦe̥ͦ f̥ͦr̥ͦo̥ͦm̥ͦ h̥ͦi̥ͦs̥ͦ m̥ͦi̥ͦs̥ͦt̥ͦḁͦk̥ͦe̥ͦs̥ͦ ḁͦn̥ͦd̥ͦ h̥ͦi̥ͦs̥ͦ k̥ͦi̥ͦc̥ͦk̥ͦi̥ͦn̥ͦg̥ͦ g̥ͦḁͦm̥ͦe̥ͦ j̥ͦu̥ͦs̥ͦt̥ͦ i̥ͦs̥ͦn̥ͦ't̥ͦ u̥ͦp̥ͦ t̥ͦo̥ͦ i̥ͦt̥ͦ. I̥ͦ t̥ͦh̥ͦi̥ͦn̥ͦk̥ͦ h̥ͦe̥ͦ n̥ͦe̥ͦe̥ͦd̥ͦs̥ͦ t̥ͦo̥ͦ b̥ͦe̥ͦ d̥ͦr̥ͦo̥ͦp̥ͦp̥ͦe̥ͦd̥ͦ ḁͦn̥ͦd̥ͦ p̥ͦu̥ͦt̥ͦ L̥ͦo̥ͦu̥ͦ L̥ͦo̥ͦu̥ͦ i̥ͦn̥ͦ ḁͦt̥ͦ h̥ͦḁͦl̥ͦf̥ͦ w̥ͦi̥ͦt̥ͦh̥ͦ L̥ͦo̥ͦl̥ͦo̥ͦh̥ͦe̥ͦḁͦ. L̥ͦo̥ͦu̥ͦ L̥ͦo̥ͦu̥ͦ i̥ͦs̥ͦ n̥ͦo̥ͦt̥ͦ g̥ͦo̥ͦi̥ͦn̥ͦg̥ͦ t̥ͦo̥ͦ d̥ͦo̥ͦ ḁͦn̥ͦy̥ͦ f̥ͦl̥ͦḁͦs̥ͦh̥ͦ S̥ͦJ̥ͦ m̥ͦo̥ͦv̥ͦe̥ͦs̥ͦ b̥ͦu̥ͦt̥ͦ h̥ͦe̥ͦ i̥ͦs̥ͦ s̥ͦo̥ͦl̥ͦi̥ͦd̥ͦ.

N̥ͦe̥ͦv̥ͦe̥ͦr̥ͦ t̥ͦh̥ͦo̥ͦu̥ͦg̥ͦh̥ͦt̥ͦ I̥ͦ w̥ͦo̥ͦu̥ͦl̥ͦd̥ͦ s̥ͦḁͦy̥ͦ i̥ͦt̥ͦ b̥ͦu̥ͦt̥ͦ I̥ͦ t̥ͦh̥ͦo̥ͦu̥ͦg̥ͦh̥ͦt̥ͦ w̥ͦr̥ͦi̥ͦg̥ͦh̥ͦt̥ͦ h̥ͦḁͦd̥ͦ ḁͦ g̥ͦo̥ͦo̥ͦd̥ͦ g̥ͦḁͦm̥ͦe̥ͦ, g̥ͦo̥ͦo̥ͦd̥ͦ p̥ͦo̥ͦs̥ͦi̥ͦt̥ͦi̥ͦo̥ͦn̥ͦi̥ͦn̥ͦg̥ͦ ḁͦn̥ͦd̥ͦ m̥ͦḁͦd̥ͦe̥ͦ g̥ͦo̥ͦo̥ͦd̥ͦ y̥ͦḁͦr̥ͦd̥ͦs̥ͦ b̥ͦr̥ͦi̥ͦn̥ͦg̥ͦi̥ͦn̥ͦg̥ͦ t̥ͦh̥ͦe̥ͦ b̥ͦḁͦl̥ͦl̥ͦ o̥ͦu̥ͦt̥ͦ.
So drop Shaun Johnson because of his kicking game and replace him with Leuluai who has no kicking game, or will Loloheia be kicker.. and does he have a kicking game?
 
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Fenderboy

Fenderboy

Chances of the Warriors ever offloading Shaun Johnson are nil. He's viewed the same as Stacey. No matter how the team is going the general league watching public love him.
 
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OMG

OMG

This get rid of Shaun Johnson or drop Shaun Johnson just cracks me up, from the outside looking in he is the most Professional player we have, he suffered one of the most severe breaks we have seen for a while and deserves credit being ahead in the rehabing of the injury compared to others.
He has recently shown himself to be the type of role model we haven't seen the likes of and is one of the most marketable players on the planet.
He has a hand in a massive amount of our points and people have taken a few average to bad moments and applied a very wide brush.
We have been through enough seasons and seen how he performs when the pack plays the way they usually do, in comparison to JT he is actually on a very similar timeline, I certainly hope it doesn't take 10 seasons to win a Comp.
If we had the sort of pack and backline that the Cows, Broncs, Storm or even the Sharks have do you really think we would be talking about this?
Until we get some consistency out of the rest of the team, I find it difficult to pinpoint exactly what the problem is with Shaun Johnson because all halves in the game struggle when their team struggles to find the advantage line and get dominated in the tackle and ridiculously the attack is the good part the Defence is schoolgirlish.

Shaun Johnson is a proven game winner and has shown the ability to guide the team many times but lets face we have some dummies and if its not one them its another or all of them like we saw at the weekend.
 
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imallrin

imallrin

A pass lol, people don't need to tell players when they fucked they know, a good Coach will address it in the manner it deserves.
Shaun Johnson didn't cost us that game it was other peoples stupidity, do you think someone else out there should have been doing the kicking or are you putting your hand up?
He had some bad kicks but he also had some fucking excellent kicks too, other teams have other options we have Shaun Johnson, that must suck arse for him.
What are you on about you clown? Shaun Johnson played like shit, gave away 6 points in brain explosion which destroyed our rare good start, then kicks off out on the full (after already kicking off twice) and they score that set, putting high kicks up in second half into a gale and kicking out in the full, a terrible grubbed that went 180deg and ruined an attacking set, get off his nuts, he was rubbish (which he is more times than not), comparing him to Thurston and Cronk, are you a relative of Shaun Johnson or are you as thick as a piece of 4 x 2
 
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OMG

OMG

What are you on about you clown? Shaun Johnson played like shit, gave away 6 points in brain explosion which destroyed our rare good start, then kicks off out on the full (after already kicking off twice) and they score that set, putting high kicks up in second half into a gale and kicking out in the full, a terrible grubbed that went 180deg and ruined an attacking set, get off his nuts, he was rubbish (which he is more times than not), comparing him to Thurston and Cronk, are you a relative of Shaun Johnson or are you as thick as a piece of 4 x 2

Jesus are you high on meth? You wouldn't know shit from clay

LMAO top notch shit, its all SJs fault we lost, all he did was rubbish there was no good at all, lucky he has that amazing pack to cover for him, your one smart cookie all right.

With your superior intellect and wit its amazing your not Coaching them.
 
Iafetas Kickstand Wang

Iafetas Kickstand Wang

Phark me in the pie hole boys. Whats with the intra-forum fighting? Give it up lads - no need to hate each other. The consensus is we all hate Konnie and Cappy, there's enough hate there to vent before turning on each other. Pharkin amateur hour.

It'll be a cold day in hell when we run out of good old fashioned coach and Konnie hating.
 
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imallrin

imallrin

Phark me in the pie hole boys. Whats with the intra-forum fighting? Give it up lads - no need to hate each other. The consensus is we all hate Konnie and Cappy, there's enough hate there to vent before turning on each other. Pharkin amateur hour.

It'll be a cold day in hell when we run out of good old fashioned coach and Konnie hating.
Fair comment, I'm just so pissed with that performance and I think Shaun Johnson was a big reason why we lost this game. Anyone I'll be back next week for more punishment
 
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Waiting For Premiership

Waiting For Premiership

On a different note, even tho i love my wife she really pisses me off at times ? Just been told that were going up to New Plymouth next weekend as she has tickets for the match. Hopefully the car wont start on Saturday
 
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facefacts

Fair comment, I'm just so pissed with that performance and I think Shaun Johnson was a big reason why we lost this game. Anyone I'll be back next week for more punishment

Well you obviously put a lot of thought into the subject and study the game in minute detail, because only the very best analysts understand that it's always Shaun Johnson's fault...look forward to your next amazing insight.
 
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imallrin

imallrin

Well you obviously put a lot of thought into the subject and study the game in minute detail, because only the very best analysts understand that it's always Shaun Johnson's fault...look forward to your next amazing insight.
Did I say it's always his fault? He had an absolute shocker, even gifting the opposition 6 on a platter is horrendous (the opposition never gift us a try like that), then that kick off on the full was just terrible as well which they then scored that set, 12 points in the space of 10 minutes, he had 4 errors in the game. I agree that without him we would be totally fucked like last year but for a guy on $1 million it's not good enough. I would rather have Shaun Johnson any day than that clown DCE the $10 million dollar man.
I can't believe people are saying bring hingano in, what we need is simple, LoLo 6, Shaun Johnson 7 and Fusi and fullback, Wright and Allwood on wings, crazy eyes bench, if injury to back during game crazy eyes 6 and lolo takes injured backs spot. Matalino is poison, sipley should have held his spot, when mannering comes back if we play the positions I just mentioned we have a bloody strong team, I would rather Vete over Gubb also. Cappy is actually retarded with his selections "LoLo has always been our longterm plan at 6", yes Roger Tuivasa-Sheck got injured but even Roger Tuivasa-Sheck hasn't played as well as Fusi did against dragons, carries back, goal line d, defusing kicks, he was just awesome, plays fullback for Tonga, then he completely changes everything and put LoLo with strapped knee at back, look at bunnies putting Inglis at 6, makes some real impact and low and behold they win the game against the odds against eels.
 
Sledge

Sledge

Did I say it's always his fault? He had an absolute shocker, even gifting the opposition 6 on a platter is horrendous (the opposition never gift us a try like that), then that kick off on the full was just terrible as well which they then scored that set, 12 points in the space of 10 minutes, he had 4 errors in the game. I agree that without him we would be totally fucked like last year but for a guy on $1 million it's not good enough. I would rather have Shaun Johnson any day than that clown DCE the $10 million dollar man.
I can't believe people are saying bring hingano in, what we need is simple, LoLo 6, Shaun Johnson 7 and Fusi and fullback, Wright and Allwood on wings, crazy eyes bench, if injury to back during game crazy eyes 6 and lolo takes injured backs spot. Matalino is poison, sipley should have held his spot, when mannering comes back if we play the positions I just mentioned we have a bloody strong team, I would rather Vete over Gubb also. Cappy is actually retarded with his selections "LoLo has always been our longterm plan at 6", yes Roger Tuivasa-Sheck got injured but even Roger Tuivasa-Sheck hasn't played as well as Fusi did against dragons, carries back, goal line d, defusing kicks, he was just awesome, plays fullback for Tonga, then he completely changes everything and put LoLo with strapped knee at back, look at bunnies putting Inglis at 6, makes some real impact and low and behold they win the game against the odds against eels.


Don't you understand yet?? You can't criticise Shaun Johnson because he is the messiah?! He will help the Warriors out of the hole we are in?? It's never his fault it's always the props,back row,centres, fullback,wind, ground, coach,bro culture,my granddad dicky knee?! Like I said Shaun Johnson needs a good 6 next to him beacause he always has and always will be a good/average number 7, no it's not always his fault and I don't think we lost on Sat because of him but fuck he needs all the help he can get. Kata has got to take some blame for the loss as if he hadn't tried a bullshit off load we could of given ourselves a chance instead of a loss. We were close on the weekend, like someone said its that top 2 inches we need to be better on, just the little things to make our life easier. Not giving away penaltys at stupid times, forcing turnovers while attacking their line, not throwing stupid passes in our in goal. Also Cappy needs to decide what the fuck he is doing with our team and stick to it. Cronullas spine have played just about every game this year, I no we've had injures, but fuck decide who is our 7,6,9 and 1 and fuckin let them get familiar with each other you dumb Aussie faaaark. Rant over.
 
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mode81

mode81

I think Shaun's problem is he tries a bit too hard at times, can't blame him he's a super competitor and there'll always be mistakes in his game because of it. Shaun Johnson will be the first to admit he had a terrible game on the weekend he's his own harshest critic and he won't hide from it. Dropping him won't solve anything.. he's a big game player. Proven. Nobody wins the Golden Boot and then all of a sudden becomes a bad player. Heaps of variables and circumstances involved that add to situations.

It's been mentioned on here years ago Shaun would kill it in the ozzy system behind a structured pack and club, that's pretty much a given. The Warriors system has farked him around for years, once again, no brainer. Inconsistent overpaid players what do you expect. No accountability.

As Shaun's mentioned a few times now he's working on his game management over the flashy stuff.. the long distance tries and miracle plays. He's probably at a point we're he's maturing and we've got to persevere with his development. He's the guy we can build this club around long term he's as loyal as the clouds are long, we're lucky to have him here.

I'd scrap most of this current roster to accommodate Shaun Johnson (Hurrell, Vatuvei, Leuluai, Lillyman, Matulino, Mannering, Hoffman) These guys haven't delivered for the Warriors in a long time.. Have a proper cleanout, no bullshit cleanout and surround Shaun Johnson with some decent knowledgeable tough league players.

The foundations are already there with Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Tui, Kata, Fusitua, Shaun Johnson... Add in a player like Adam Reynolds, supreme game management and deadly goal kicking.. get Dean Whare here for the centres and we look a way more lethal backline already

Also predict McFadden won't be coach next season he's had his dash. been here since 2014 giving it a go but he's a dud.. just another mediocre coach the club gambled on and lost. Goodness knows who Jim will hire next.
 
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Jay M

Jay M

A few things for people to think about:
1. Shaun Johnson and Leuluai have never really gelled as a halves pairing. The best we've ever seen them was in the kiwis with Leuluai at hooker. For some reason when they are paired together in the halves - our attack stutters so badly, it just really is comical.
2. When Shaun Johnson and Leuluai are together - Shaun Johnson does 90% of the field kicking meaning the opposition are able to put so much more pressure on him. When Tevaga is playing hooker and Lolohea at fullback - it means we really only have one kicking option on the field. All the pressure and attention from the opposition goes straight onto Shaun Johnson. Look at the kick stats for evidence, I think Leuluai made one kick?
3. Shaun Johnson is responsible for the attack, but pretty hard to be fully accountable if the pack isn't delivering. Look at the receive stats for the weekend - typically earlier in the season it was approximately 50-50 between Shaun Johnson and Robson. Leuluai's receives were about 70% of SJs.

Since Maloney left, the best Shaun Johnson has looked was with Townsend last season. But he also had Tomkins at the back supporting him where needed.

Shaun Johnson looks the best in the kiwis with Foran in the halves with him, Leuluai or Luke at hooker. Maybe we should look to replicate that as best we can.

Lolohea needs to go back to the halves to help Shaun Johnson out. Leuluai has no creative spark. Yes I think Lolohea is a better wing than five eighth, but if his long term future is in the halves - he needs to be playing there. His combination with Shaun Johnson is much better than Leuluai's. Fusitua has been fine at fullback - put him back there. Allwood or Manu come onto the wing. (at this stage, I prefer Allwood's defence, but unless our forwards grow some balls, maybe Manu's hitups and charges are more of what we need).

I like Tevaga, but not sure where to play him. He doesn't strike me as a genuine first grade hooker yet and he's not big enough to play lock (IMO). His heart can't be questioned. In terms of offence and defence right now - I'd be using Luke and Leuluai at hooker. Maybe Leuluai to start the game with his defence, and Luke to come on when the opposition pack tires a bit.
 
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mode81

mode81

No way am I saying Mannering, Manu, Tommy, Jake ,Matulino aren't tough players that's being disrespectful to their service. They are plenty tough but they're all stale at this club

This club needs guys who have been in that ozzy system tough.. James Graham under Hasler. James Tamou under Green. Sam Moa, JWHargreaves with the Chooks. J.Bromwich. Eastwood, Alex Glenn type players.. consistent week in week out NRL tough
 
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