Post Match NRL 2016 - Rnd 4 - Warriors vs Knights Post Match Discussion

Was Konrad Hurrell the right person for the bench?

  • Yes

  • Unsure

  • No


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eudebrito

eudebrito

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Contributor
There has to be other factors taken into account though, like distance between players, player speed, angle of runs etc. That's always going to done on an arbitrary basis, so the obstruction rules cannot be clear cut and black/white. Technically, the block play is as obstructive as an actual obstruction, but it's a legitimate tactic, and is used constantly because the ball is passed behind instead of run behind. They need to sort this out, or it's going to become an utter joke.

Rule seems to be, you can run behind your own player, unless it results in a try in which case it will be pulled back*, no matter if anyone is actually impacted.

*that’s IF its sent to the bunker, which depends on how much the ref likes you, if he’s got money on the try scorer, will just point to the spot.

They do need a proper rule, that hodges one in orgin a few years ago killed their credibility when he was playing peek-a-boo behind his own players and they gave it a green light.

But no one can have any confidence that they will apply this rule consistently, or what it actually means.

Might have been the Friday night game, were going on about if he runs behind the player, closer in, 2 passes away from the try scorer, then that’s okay… why?
 
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Jordan G

Guest
I thought we did come out fired up in the first half? Scored a try within three minutes and then the ref started hammering us and then the mistakes started.

Completion rate of only 70% is of concern and still a lot of mistakes but we are getting there.

Considering we lost games with completion rates of over 80% I'm not too worried about it.

It's more how the mistakes are made rather than the number, and in the second half most of our mistakes came because we were being positive with the ball in hand.
 
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Sup42

Sup42

Contributor
It's like the players just don't get it. 2nd half versus Tigers and for long periods in the other games against Broncos and Storm, defend, roll through the middle first and opportunities will come for the backs to shine. Yet for most of the first half (and mentioned by the opposition as well) we were going sideways first and not getting anywhere and making it easier for the Knights to defend us. Even on restarts after a penalty we go backline move first and then we sort of lose shape.

I hope they click sooner rather than later.

The players don't get it.

That is fact.

The Warriors for twenty years have been world famous in the NRL for not getting it.

They are world renowned for going their own way.

You can travel as far away from the NRL as rugby league allows and trawl the ESL forums for an impartial veiw, and you will read time and again 'they are exciting to watch when they are in the right frame of mind...the rest of the time they do things that make no sense'

Our top side, mirror our juniors....players that don't get it....players that scratch their heads when faced with teams that get it.
 
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ToiletDuck

ToiletDuck

Administrator
Our top side, mirror our juniors....players that don't get it....players that scratch their heads when faced with teams that get it.


Yeah, completely agree.

I even find that extends to interviews. They often say what they think is the right thing, but it never sounds like they've come to that conclusion themselves. It's as though they've been primed with a bunch of buzz words both in preparation and by the media and then they repeat them hoping it satiates the public. I never get the impression that what they say will impact directly on what will happen in the following half or following game. It's all just reactive stuff, rather than proactive. Which is why we will always lose to a smart side that plays disciplined football to a gameplan with the ability to change tactics if it isn't going to plan. We aren't a side that can do that. We're all bluster and cliche sayings then glazed over eyes in a huddle under the posts when the opposition strolls over for a couple of tries - and the 'solution' will always be generic 'we need to run harder, tackle harder, complete our sets' etc etc...there's never any sort of specific acknowledgement of a deficiency followed by a change of gameplan or positional play or anything else that may actually help. It's just rinse and repeat whilst making sure we outwardly appear to be doing the right things.
 
Iafetas Kickstand Wang

Iafetas Kickstand Wang

That feels good. Finally, a win. The first half was scratchy, the bunker disallowing that try, I mean that's cynical and disgraceful. Second half I think that first defensive set after half time destroyed their confidence. Charlie Gubb was a weapon, even if he wasn't always sticking he as getting them stopped well short of the advantage line on a number of occasions. Jazz Tevaga, one poor pass but otherwise full of intent. Ben Matulino was good, and Hoff was making a lot of yardage. Solomone Kata is now becoming the player he can be, Manu Vatuvei was amazing carting the ball back, and the Shaun and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck show delivered. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, that bloke is a fair dinkum beast.

Plodson was truly horrible in that first half. Still don't get what he's doing to be honest.

Overall, winners are grinders and the Bunker can suck my balls.
 
Sup42

Sup42

Contributor
Yeah, completely agree.

I even find that extends to interviews. They often say what they think is the right thing, but it never sounds like they've come to that conclusion themselves. It's as though they've been primed with a bunch of buzz words both in preparation and by the media and then they repeat them hoping it satiates the public. I never get the impression that what they say will impact directly on what will happen in the following half or following game. It's all just reactive stuff, rather than proactive. Which is why we will always lose to a smart side that plays disciplined football to a gameplan with the ability to change tactics if it isn't going to plan. We aren't a side that can do that. We're all bluster and cliche sayings then glazed over eyes in a huddle .
" Simon doesn't say much.....but when he does we all listen"

Eleven straight losses and five coaches plus a Captaincy change says you dummies are full of shit.
 
Iafetas Kickstand Wang

Iafetas Kickstand Wang

They have to make it black and white otherwise they would have teams and media making constant comparisons with other calls from different games...the refs would get hammered for being inconsistent. ..it's pretty simple I guess, if you have the ball, dont run behind your own player.

I watched Cameron Munster last night about four times in broken field play kink across field, behind his own players. Technically on each of those occasions he ran behind one of his own men and should have been penalised. He was not penalised. It happens every game. It's now so ridiculous that the head ref wanted to check an obstruction on a double around.

It's obstruction if it obstructs the defence. No player went for Mannering. Mannering himself stopped a good six metres prior to the defensive line. It is an appalling call.
 

facefacts

So our slow useless winger who should be a forward now only has ten other players since 1908 score more tries than him.
Must have been some shit players in our game!
Way to go big man!

If only he wasn't one of, if not the most error ridden, defensively pathetic wingers to ever play the game to go with it. The try tally is good, but i highly doubt any other player has played all 200 plus games of their career in the most prolific try scoring position in the game because they're too laughably unskilled to cover any other backline position...but hey, i'm sure all those amazing coaches that have continuously picked him on the wing and who are still plying their trades as head coaches in the NRL knew exactly what they were doing...wait...what?
 

facefacts

I watched Cameron Munster last night about four times in broken field play kink across field, behind his own players. Technically on each of those occasions he ran behind one of his own men and should have been penalised. He was not penalised. It happens every game. It's now so ridiculous that the head ref wanted to check an obstruction on a double around.

It's obstruction if it obstructs the defence. No player went for Mannering. Mannering himself stopped a good six metres prior to the defensive line. It is an appalling call.

Yeah that is an anomaly with the rule, all i can think of they dont consider it a structured attacking movement when a player runs behind his team mates like that, although it usually happens after things get a bit fucked up and the player is usually trying just to centralize play.
 

phil.kingston

Agree - he is solidish without being spectacular and finding his feet in our structure

Funny how members make excuses for Luke [bad missed tackle in Newcastle's first try and Shaun Johnson [revolving door in their third] but from the day he was signed have consigned Robson to the rubbish tin

cause their ceiling is a lot higher than Robsons. Luke in the last few years only lags cameron smith. Shaun Johnson has the potential to be the best half back, has taken us to a grand final in his first year, and as you saw last year, we cant win a game without him. Robson on the other hand has always been somewhere around between NSW cup and first grade. So its understandable why those two are given a bit more latitude
 
Dixpat

Dixpat

In Andy we (have to) trust
Contributor
Yeah that is an anomaly with the rule, all i can think of they don't consider it a structured attacking movement when a player runs behind his team mates like that, although it usually happens after things get a bit fucked up and the player is usually trying just to centralize play.

If you use SportsEars and listen to the ref even in non scoring moves in the Warriors game the pocket ref calls passes behind a front player whether they are "Clear" / "outside" or not - it is strange however that they only ones which are deemed not to be are those in a scoring movement

Also of concern is the lead ref overriding the pocket ref when clearly the lead ref is in no position to see - in the game one of our players backed into the opposition and passed in the direction of a fellow player and the ball was knocked towards our goal-line by a hand of a Newcastle player - the pocket who had a clear view called "knock-on Newcastle" the lead who had no view of the incident because our player's back was to him over ruled him and gave the scrum to Newcastle
 
Dixpat

Dixpat

In Andy we (have to) trust
Contributor
Shaun Johnson has the potential to be the best half back, has taken us to a grand final in his first year, and as you saw last year, we cant win a game without him.

How long have we been saying Shaun Johnson has the potential ...
Yes he can be an illusive runner but he doesn't do that often enough.
He drifts in and out of the game too much for my liking.
Struggles to pass a ball to the man beside him.
Doesn't exhibit football smarts
Is a swinging door in defence more often than not
Doesn't have Robson's courage
At times he looks very laboured in what he is doing.
Too Benji Marshallish for mine!

can't win a game without him ... took us 4 games to win one with him!!

However having said all that I'd prefer to have him on my team that playing against him
 

facefacts

How long have we been saying Shaun Johnson has the potential ...
Yes he can be an illusive runner but he doesn't do that often enough.
He drifts in and out of the game too much for my liking.
Struggles to pass a ball to the man beside him.
Doesn't exhibit football smarts
Is a swinging door in defence more often than not
Doesn't have Robson's courage
At times he looks very laboured in what he is doing.
Too Benji Marshallish for mine!

can't win a game without him ... took us 4 games to win one with him!!

However having said all that I'd prefer to have him on my team that playing against him

Some fair points. Johnson isn't the insane competitor that someone like Thurston is, in fact i don't think iv'e seen a player with such an incredible will to win as him, but if Thurston hadn't been lucky enough to play in such an amazing Australian and Queensland side, which cemented him as a great, what would people have said about his ability to lead a team if he hadn't had the luxury of playing in such teams?

It took him until he was 31-32 to lead his side to a title, with some really terrible finishes over those years.

I don't want to make excuses for Johnson because he really does need to do more, but i will say it doesn't take many shit indians to make the chief look worse than he is
 
eudebrito

eudebrito

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Contributor
Shouldn’t really praise the coach for correcting something that was stupid to begin with, but starting Matulino was a big help, he was pretty immense apart from that one rubbish tackle with luke - the small bloke takes the legs and the big bloke wraps up the ball, not the other way round – shouldn’t be that hard lads – just not concentrating - story of the warriors.

But how many minutes did he play straight? We’d be screwed without him really, thank gawd he got off that bogus shoulder charge.

Begs the question why the coach had him come off the bench for 3 weeks, I don’t think cappy is as bad as some make out, but he doesn't help himself with that sort of stuff.

Fortunately all the arm bars put on by the knights meant he got free interchanges this week, so he couldn’t screw that part up.
 
surfin

surfin

They have to make it black and white otherwise they would have teams and media making constant comparisons with other calls from different games...the refs would get hammered for being inconsistent. ..it's pretty simple I guess, if you have the ball, dont run behind your own player.

There should actually be a player that is obstructed though, if the try hadn't been scored it was play on and no one would have even commented that there was an issue.
 

JoeyJohns

Guest
I fully expect Tommy leuluai to start as soon as he's ready, possibly next week, Jazz Tevaga to keep the 14 jersey and Robson back to NSW Cup, in Basketball parlance "he ain't got game..."

Agree to disagree - everyone is forgetting Roache. I don't know what his injury status is but he offers more than Tevaga in the hooker role/back utility. He's stronger, faster, has a step, vision, stamina and crisper passing. Tevaga has had a great couple of games and will only better with time but Roache is the forgotten 'go to guy' for all the attributes I mentioned, and then some. Hence they signed him on a first grade contract and not Tevaga.

Tevaga is all heart and basics, a great role model for kids, but we need some xfactor across the board as much as possible.
 
Freddie Futler

Freddie Futler

Agree to disagree - everyone is forgetting Roache. I don't know what his injury status is but he offers more than Tevaga in the hooker role/back utility. He's stronger, faster, has a step, vision, stamina and crisper passing. Tevaga has had a great couple of games and will only better with time but Roache is the forgotten 'go to guy' for all the attributes I mentioned, and then some. Hence they signed him on a first grade contract and not Tevaga.
Yep, agree 100% but lets not forget Wells he is also an awesome prospect.

There is some talent in our lower grades but we just need to get the accustomed to structure.
 
tajhay

tajhay

🏉
Agree to disagree - everyone is forgetting Roache. I don't know what his injury status is but he offers more than Tevaga in the hooker role/back utility. He's stronger, faster, has a step, vision, stamina and crisper passing. Tevaga has had a great couple of games and will only better with time but Roache is the forgotten 'go to guy' for all the attributes I mentioned, and then some. Hence they signed him last year on a first grade contract and not Tevaga.

Tevaga is all heart and basics, a great role model for kids, but we need some xfactor across the board as much as possible.
True everyone is forgetting Roache, however based on limited gametime, Tavega looks more made for the NRL than Roache. There must have been a reason why Roache was initially preferred over Tavega, just as the reason why when Luke was out, Roache was still on the bench with Tavega promoted to the starting hooker role. IMO Tavega has shown he has the mettle for the NRL and has had an outstanding debut season so far. Not to take anything away from Roache at all who i believe is a fine young player. Its just from what I have seen so far, I would take Tavega over Roache. Didnt we have both Tavega and Luke on the paddock at one stage in the game yesterday? If you exclude the football smarts that Luke has in scoring the two tries so far from dummy half, i feel that Tavega has been equal if not better than even what Luke has provided to date.
 

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