Post Match NRL 2016 - Rnd 1 - Tigers vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

[Horriors2014]

As opposed to what, A mime? But seriously, it's not like Kata can't speak English and Manu doesn't speak Tongan right, right?

Umm what we mean when we talk about good communication on defence is letting each other know who they are going to aim at, who they want the other to handle, any insights they have to planning defence of the next attack, remind each other when to slide or compress, or just to keep an eye on a certain move.

That's what Manu has been without for years. We' really only had Tate and Toopi as good defenders at centre. But Ropati wasn'the bad at working with Manu in defence and at his best did feed him more than most.

 

[brightman]

Umm what we mean when we talk about good communication on defence is letting each other know who they are going to aim at, who they want the other to handle, any insights they have to planning defence of the next attack, remind each other when to slide or compress, or just to keep an eye on a certain move.

That's what Manu has been without for years. We' really only had Tate and Toopi as good defenders at centre. But Ropati wasn'the bad at working with Manu in defence and at his best did feed him more than most.

Surely the game plan for those two would have to be don't let the other team get the KFC and vice versa

 

[diehard]

Manu always seems to get a pass while Kata gets in the neck at the post game show with Betham and co. Manu is always protected. Except on this forum, where you guys and dolls call it the way it is. Protecting Manu makes him worse as a defender, not better. Does anyone on the Warriors ever get in his ear? Does he listen, or just goes his own way? Not hating on Manu, just want him to improve his edge defense. Personally, I'd put him in as an impact player on the bench.

 

[OMG]

Well just had a long night so I thought I'd watch the game again,

Man our right does exceptionally well in both facets, there are definitely some timing issues like we saw with Bodene last year.

It will take a few games but the key indicator was the big run from Tui that resulted in Kata's 2nd, nice hands and fundamental footy to put Tui in space, I love that shit, fuck moving Tui, that was some winger shit.

There was a lot of play down that right and we defended lovely, the Blake haters should re-watch, great chase out of dummy half and makes some good tackles from there, He was chasing kicks hard, but Shaun Johnson was putting them a bit long.
The Simona fend was his worst moment but the line held and we recovered with out losing ground, I think some thought the big Rankin run was his fault but it wasn't, it was lucky that he chased hard and gave him the big clothesline from behind.
Blake really does some nice things with the ball but it's just a bit of timing needed, people are talking shit if they think Kon would have scored off those plays, he gets held out in those circumstances as well, however there was one where he probably should have hit Tui but it wasn't a bad play to take it to the line.

Hoffman is the key to that left with the team staying the same, he really was quite disappointing, he needs to up his defensive rate and stop taking one off hit ups.

That Simona try was combination of not numbering and misreads, and Hoffman should have been up helping Robson shut down the offloader, poor lazy defence from him at a time when you should be trying to keep them pinned, Kata and Manu's having bad reads surprise surprise, far far too many of them, those tries were just far too simple overlap or not but even the Teddy try they can hold their hands up.
You got to feel for Roger Tuivasa-Sheck in that situation with the Simona try, there was actually a comment about Blake jogging back with that try, but he seemed to moving the same speed as Kata, who helped create it.

Lillyman was absolute rubbish, his hit ups were killing momentum by the way he was backing in and they would easily put him on his back and slow us right down and his defence was soft, you can attribute a try to him from his soft tackle, is he carrying an injury??

I think I would rather have Manu at Centre and Kata on the wing if they are going to play together, we are in with a chance if we can defend that left.

 

[diehard]

OMG, when we were on a roll last year, and were sniffing around 4th place, Hoffman was setting the edges with Kata and Manu, and it was much better. Am I right about that? Against the Tigers, I didn't see that happening, and Hoff was struggling with his own game. So it IS possible for Kata and Manu to do well on the edges, but only with Hoff's help.

 

[OMG]

OMG, when we were on a roll last year, and were sniffing around 4th place, Hoffman was setting the edges with Kata and Manu, and it was much better. Am I right about that? Against the Tigers, I didn't see that happening, and Hoff was struggling with his own game. So it IS possible for Kata and Manu to do well on the edges, but only with Hoff's help.

A lot of that form actually had a lot to do with the teams we were playing, we only beat shit teams apart from Melbourne at home without him, we were fooled by beating all the rubbish.

And if you have a look at the right hand attacks from the teams we did win against there is a pattern or 2.

https://live.nrlstats.com/nrl/season2015.html

 

[diehard]

Thanks OMG. Of course, our edges can also suffer against the bad teams, like the Tigers in Round 1. When we were beating the "bad" teams, how was our edge? I remember on one of the After Game Shows, they were banging on about Hurrell's edge, when Manu/Kata's edge were giving up almost as many tries. I think at the time it was 27 to 31 from memory. Interesting that it's changed, but the After Match boyz still don't say specifically the Manu/Kata edge. They say, "the edges." What, they get fined if they mention Manu's name in a negative manner. To his credit, he (and Kata) were giving it their all offensively last game.

 

[jonno]

OMG, when we were on a roll last year, and were sniffing around 4th place, Hoffman was setting the edges with Kata and Manu, and it was much better. Am I right about that? Against the Tigers, I didn't see that happening, and Hoff was struggling with his own game. So it IS possible for Kata and Manu to do well on the edges, but only with Hoff's help.

I thought the Tigers did a good job of sucking Hoffman into a tackle and then stacking their right edge (our left) with an overlap on the next play... Kata should have been yelling and screaming infield every time they did that...

But he was not a sound communicator. I think he was more of an ESP communicator...

 

[phil.kingston]

I havent been through the previous pages, so not sure if you guys have talked about this already....was watching NRL 360 yesterday, and they asked Innes what do you think is the reason behind the inconsistency of the warriors....and the first thing he mentioned is Training....What you put out on the field on Saturday is dependant on what you did all week at training...and if that training is not up to the scratch, then Saturday wont be any better.

Considering that Cappy after every game says, we were perfect in our training drills so he didnt see the rubbish performance coming...I keep going back to the same thing....are we doing the right training. For example...what plays do we run at Hurrell, Kata and Manu at training....Do they put Shaun Johnson/Lolohea/Roger Tuivasa-Sheck/Fusitua to run at them and do their thing....and more importantly, if they fail to defend them, what do they do? Just move onto the next task or they keep doing it till they get it right...We have some of the best attackers in the game in our team, how is it possible that if we are training properly our edges look so school boyish...

 

[diehard]

Bottom line: Manu is too slow on the wing, and Kata reads the play poorly and can't tackle. Everyone says that's a fact. So, why not put Manu as an impact player on the bench, and Kata at Wing where his weaknesses are minimised and his strengths are highlighted? I loved the way Kata chased kicks last week. He just needs to do it on the wing, with a defensive centre. Problem solved.

 

[Weno]

RFM gets his chance to nail a top 17 spot.
Has the goods.

 

[phil.kingston]

Bottom line: Manu is too slow on the wing, and Kata reads the play poorly and can't tackle. Everyone says that's a fact. So, why not put Manu as an impact player on the bench, and Kata at Wing where his weaknesses are minimised and his strengths are highlighted? I loved the way Kata chased kicks last week. He just needs to do it on the wing, with a defensive centre. Problem solved.

Manu dropped so many bombs last week,cause they kept bombing him all day....How is a guy who is 5 foot 5 and built like a truck going to out jump the opposition?

 

[Freddie Futler]

RFM gets his chance to nail a top 17 spot.
Has the goods.

I hope so, last time I saw him play he stood there and directed traffic.

 

[Jordan G]

I havent been through the previous pages, so not sure if you guys have talked about this already....was watching NRL 360 yesterday, and they asked Innes what do you think is the reason behind the inconsistency of the warriors....and the first thing he mentioned is Training....What you put out on the field on Saturday is dependant on what you did all week at training...and if that training is not up to the scratch, then Saturday wont be any better.

Considering that Cappy after every game says, we were perfect in our training drills so he didnt see the rubbish performance coming...I keep going back to the same thing....are we doing the right training. For example...what plays do we run at Hurrell, Kata and Manu at training....Do they put Shaun Johnson/Lolohea/Roger Tuivasa-Sheck/Fusitua to run at them and do their thing....and more importantly, if they fail to defend them, what do they do? Just move onto the next task or they keep doing it till they get it right...We have some of the best attackers in the game in our team, how is it possible that if we are training properly our edges look so school boyish...

TBH I think that's complete BS from the guys at 360. It's a pretty cliche answer to just say training and they wouldn't have a clue what we do anyway. It's easy to look at results and come to any old conclusion when your on the outside looking in.......so now let me do the same........

The problem is that we have too many players who are 50/50 prospects, good or bad, and that will always create inconsistency whether it's from game to game or over a stretch of games.

All we need to do is look at the NSW Cup side. CKN was a half, now he's a winger, Fusitua was a winger, now he's a fullback. It wouldn't shock me if that changed next week as well. We saw throughout his NYC career that Hiku was pretty much just thrown wherever from game to game. How are any of these guys supposed to really develop consistency with that sort of approach?

Are we supposed to believe that manu just hasn't trained well for his entire career because he's been inconsistent in a lot of areas for his career. Kata is cut from a similar cloth.I honestly think the flaws these guys have in their game are not something that can ever be 100% taught or coached out of them no matter how much they train.

Lets not forget that guys like Hurrell/Kata were union schoolboy players who were plucked from there and thrown straight into NYC and not long after thrown straight into first grade. They were going up against guys who had been training and breathing RL systems from U15s upward in Australia. Because of the dominance of Union (and we need to be smarter about this when identifying talent) we're starting our players education far later than their Australian counterparts. Add that to the haphazard way we throw players around in lower grades without any real plan and it's no shock that we often struggle for consistency.

It's not training that's the problem, it's football education, and our players often start their league education far too late.

 

[diehard]

Manu dropped so many bombs last week,cause they kept bombing him all day....How is a guy who is 5 foot 5 and built like a truck going to out jump the opposition?

Kata is not 5'5: but 5'9"and a half. So get a taller centre who can jump like Wright. Never realised that Manu was helpful under the high ball. Certainly drops it enough. And you have Roger Tuivasa-Sheck for the high ball. Manu being tall is his only advantage on the wing. Put him as an impact player on the bench, play him in the second and fourth quarters when the opposition is tired, and let him hit the line 15 times a game. He'd be a huge asset, instead of a liability on the wing.

 

[Mr Frank White]

Manu dropped so many bombs last week,cause they kept bombing him all day....How is a guy who is 5 foot 5 and built like a truck going to out jump the opposition?

Which is frustrating as the tigers dropped a few bombs, but as soon as that started happening, we went away from it.