Post Match NRL 2015 - Rnd 25 - Tigers vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

Game Information

Vs

01 Jan 1970 12:00
minute

jonno

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 13, 2014
9,803
Yep heard in the grapevine that a certain band of players like to be in control of the club and corrupt the others who are not. Wouldn't be surprised if this disease has infected the bros in management and certain coaching staff as well. If its well and truly as bad as what its beginning to look like now, I hope Doyle weeds it out and gets rid of them....during the off season so they can get off to a new start with the nines cumin up.
Who are these mystery players that control the destiny of my weekends? Name some names please so we can have a good old fashioned vent...
 

jonno

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 13, 2014
9,803
Hoffman hit the nail on the head... Said it exactly how it is...
No respect for the Jersey?

In the real world these guys are all contractors.. None of the contractors at my work carry on like a bunch of spoiled children... They all man up or get their asses handed to them...

The development club theory has to end here, and the ready for action club has to come into effect... cause this is what a development club always looks like, a bunch of guys who need more development...

Glenn and Watson need to learn how to own a footy club. Glenns made us into a laughing stock with his goal for us. Best sporting franchise in the universe my ass... And Watson presided over how many different jerseys? Pride in which jersey to be exact?

Cappy needs to be an assistant coach, cause he's got no talent for head coaching... That's got to be obvious to everyone by now surely... No more developing people who can't be developed..

We need to fill our FG squad with pros, and our reserve grade squad with pros, so that our rookies look up and all they see is pros going about their business... Think SBW professionalism...

And can someone tell these guys that if you can't play defense you can't have a contract... Surely that's footy 101... Or is that too much to ask?
 

mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
4,131
Auckland
It's a bit like porn. You know you shouldn't watch but you do it anyway.

Yeah, it's like porn where there's lots of kissing and foreplay, making you think "Damn, dey hot!!" And then they get undressed. And spend five minutes trying to untie their shoes, trip over themselves trying to get the pants off, etc. And then sometimes do manage to get naked and then go "Um, so, ah, wadda we do now, again? Sorry, I know we rehearsed this but I forget, eh?"
 

Johnnyray

1st Grade Fringe
Oct 11, 2014
2,298
Yeah, it's like porn where there's lots of kissing and foreplay, making you think "Damn, dey hot!!" And then they get undressed. And spend five minutes trying to untie their shoes, trip over themselves trying to get the pants off, etc. And then sometimes do manage to get naked and then go "Um, so, ah, wadda we do now, again? Sorry, I know we rehearsed this but I forget, eh?"

I for once would like to see a realistic porn film where guy spends an hour and half just trying to get her bra off. Sadly this is what West Tigers game was for us today. An hour and half of us trying to get her bra off and just giving up in the end. Still think Albert Vete played well. Hoffman said all right things regarding game as our acting Captain today in the post match interview. Cappy is completely out of his depth and it shows ... :(
 
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Afakasi247

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 5, 2014
3,190
There's things I see happening out there that aren't related to number of injuries. For example. You can have blokes out, but you still have pride in your defensive line to move off your line. The simple stuff, about 3-4 times Mason Lino squares it up nicely to the line in attack, Ryan Hoffman is the front runner, but there is no runner out the back which means the Tigers can just slide onto him with absolute ease. Its very simple. Sam Tomkins cbf getting around, and there's no game plan that makes it blatantly clear that you need to be there. I saw no pattern, no structure. The only hope they had was ad lib footy coming from the likes of Ikahihifo and Vete. I think those two tried, as did Gubb. Thompson had a crack. Most of the rest, abysmal.
You make a fair analysis, not much of which is necessarily wrong. I wouldn't say that these issues necessarily reflect the coaching prowess of Cappy, as much as it represents a lack of cohesion with the team we are fielding. The Mason Lino - Ryan Hoffman connection was on point most of the night, but Tomkins didn't show the awareness to wrap around which may suggest he didn't suspect that was the intentions of Lino's pass. At the same time, you'd expect a play of the "caliber" of Tomkins to be more aware of whats going on - although Tomkins was there to receive the pass on a few occasions, it was all to slow and if Ryan wasn't shut down, Tomkins sure as hell was. You also have to consider Lino never have played a game with this group before last week, which can also contribute to cohesion issues. May sound like excuses, but if we are gonna dig into the coach than analyzing the other scale of things is just as viable in this case.

We can hammer Cappy for being unable to bring out the best in the group of guys he's been forced to field since Shaun Johnson went down. I suppose us thinking we were going to make some sort of miraculous run to the finals with an injury toll such as what we have, in hindsight, was wishful thinking to say the least. Comparing ourselves to other, lower-placed teams such as Titans, Knights, Panthers etc. makes matters worse because they are winning games or playing with heart and passion while we are being left in tatters. "McFraud" is also a young coach in his own right. He still has a shitload of figuring out to do, and its fucking tough he's had to do so through the circumstances - any team who fields a predominate-reserve grade level team will get fucked week in week out. See what that had done to Manly and Penrith this season. Storm without their big 3 = shithouse. Cowboys without JT barely hang on. We can strive to expect more from our depth players but they reflect how disastrous our development/recruitment within our club has been over the last 3-4 years. Areas which Doyle is already addressing.

That isn't a reflection of Cappy - that's a reflection of the club being run to shit by past management. It's easy to say "if we didn't have injuries we'd still be in the same position" because we are playing so bad its impossible to think otherwise, but if Cappy was able to consistently field our top side (Leuluai, Hoffman, Thompson, Manu, Tomkins) to build momentum at the right time of year, I seriously believe we would have made top 8 easy. Cappy still has plenty to prove though - we should save the criticism until next year when he has a full arsonal of talent at his disposal and (hopefully) a credible mentoror and/or improved coaching staff around him (decisions I hope Doyle makes).
 

Raurimu Massive

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 26, 2012
2,875
Whangarei
In preparation for the darts finals, I'd started drinking at 8am and kept up a steady intake until 6pm... still wasn't enough to make me watch the game.
 
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Mr Brownstone

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2014
3,409
You make a fair analysis, not much of which is necessarily wrong. I wouldn't say that these issues necessarily reflect the coaching prowess of Cappy, as much as it represents a lack of cohesion with the team we are fielding. The Mason Lino - Ryan Hoffman connection was on point most of the night, but Tomkins didn't show the awareness to wrap around which may suggest he didn't suspect that was the intentions of Lino's pass. At the same time, you'd expect a play of the "caliber" of Tomkins to be more aware of whats going on - although Tomkins was there to receive the pass on a few occasions, it was all to slow and if Ryan wasn't shut down, Tomkins sure as hell was. You also have to consider Lino never have played a game with this group before last week, which can also contribute to cohesion issues. May sound like excuses, but if we are gonna dig into the coach than analyzing the other scale of things is just as viable in this case.

We can hammer Cappy for being unable to bring out the best in the group of guys he's been forced to field since Shaun Johnson went down. I suppose us thinking we were going to make some sort of miraculous run to the finals with an injury toll such as what we have, in hindsight, was wishful thinking to say the least. Comparing ourselves to other, lower-placed teams such as Titans, Knights, Panthers etc. makes matters worse because they are winning games or playing with heart and passion while we are being left in tatters. "McFraud" is also a young coach in his own right. He still has a shitload of figuring out to do, and its fucking tough he's had to do so through the circumstances - any team who fields a predominate-reserve grade level team will get fucked week in week out. See what that had done to Manly and Penrith this season. Storm without their big 3 = shithouse. Cowboys without JT barely hang on. We can strive to expect more from our depth players but they reflect how disastrous our development/recruitment within our club has been over the last 3-4 years. Areas which Doyle is already addressing.

That isn't a reflection of Cappy - that's a reflection of the club being run to shit by past management. It's easy to say "if we didn't have injuries we'd still be in the same position" because we are playing so bad its impossible to think otherwise, but if Cappy was able to consistently field our top side (Leuluai, Hoffman, Thompson, Manu, Tomkins) to build momentum at the right time of year, I seriously believe we would have made top 8 easy. Cappy still has plenty to prove though - we should save the criticism until next year when he has a full arsonal of talent at his disposal and (hopefully) a credible mentoror and/or improved coaching staff around him (decisions I hope Doyle makes).
Brilliant post, sums things up exactly how I see it.

The one thing I will add is that I'm a bit miffed about people putting Hoffman on a pedestal at the moment. I'm refusing to re-watch our games given how dreadful they are, however on the once-weekly viewing it seems to me that Hoffman is a reasonably material contributor to our weak defence. Seems to be getting his positioning wrong in the defensive line so that he doesn't get near players that he should to tackle. Penrith game was a classic example, didn't even show up as missed tackles because he didn't lay a hand on the opposition. I realise I will probably be in the minority here however I don't think he's come close to earning his pay packet this year.
 

jonno

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 13, 2014
9,803
Brilliant post, sums things up exactly how I see it.

The one thing I will add is that I'm a bit miffed about people putting Hoffman on a pedestal at the moment. I'm refusing to re-watch our games given how dreadful they are, however on the once-weekly viewing it seems to me that Hoffman is a reasonably material contributor to our weak defence. Seems to be getting his positioning wrong in the defensive line so that he doesn't get near players that he should to tackle. Penrith game was a classic example, didn't even show up as missed tackles because he didn't lay a hand on the opposition. I realise I will probably be in the minority here however I don't think he's come close to earning his pay packet this year.
So you're putting Hoffman in the Hurrell bracket as not putting in enough effort?
 

Mr Brownstone

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2014
3,409
So you're putting Hoffman in the Hurrell bracket as not putting in enough effort?
No I'm certainly not questioning his effort, more his application - if I can use that word without compromising effort.

Hoffman started the season very strongly then, I think in part to concussions, Origin and injury, he became a low contributor to the side for the entire middle part of the season but for that Robson charge down against the Sharks. Now he's fully fit again and trying hard however I'm underwhelmed by his defence big time. He actually clocked off last season for the Storm also. Perhaps he needs to consider putting club ahead of his shitty state.
 

Jordan G

Guest
The first try right after halftime is a perfect example of it. Hoffman is rushing across field, probably because he knows we can't defend on the edges. Footwork and/or inside ball, and it's going to cause trouble.

At the moment I think he/Mannering/Thompson are just being spread too thin to try and compensate for the lack of defense we have across the park. If they were able to just worry about their channel/man it wouldn't be an issue IMO.
 

wallacenz

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
7,328
Brilliant post, sums things up exactly how I see it.

The one thing I will add is that I'm a bit miffed about people putting Hoffman on a pedestal at the moment. I'm refusing to re-watch our games given how dreadful they are, however on the once-weekly viewing it seems to me that Hoffman is a reasonably material contributor to our weak defence. Seems to be getting his positioning wrong in the defensive line so that he doesn't get near players that he should to tackle. Penrith game was a classic example, didn't even show up as missed tackles because he didn't lay a hand on the opposition. I realise I will probably be in the minority here however I don't think he's come close to earning his pay packet this year.
Its probably worth investigating whether its him and/or others contributing to the problems. Warriors fans get favorites which become untouchable and Hoffman is in that category right now but its undeniable that his defence, when playing for Ausy, was lacking so its conceivable that defence may not be his strong point. I always thought that at the Storm his strength was his attacking game (he played a similar game with Cronk to what we see with Thompson and Shaun Johnson).
 
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Mr Brownstone

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2014
3,409
The first try right after halftime is a perfect example of it. Hoffman is rushing across field, probably because he knows we can't defend on the edges. Footwork and/or inside ball, and it's going to cause trouble.

At the moment I think he/Mannering/Thompson are just being spread too thin to try and compensate for the lack of defense we have across the park. If they were able to just worry about their channel/man it wouldn't be an issue IMO.
Actually that's probably a really good explanation of what's going wrong
 

eudebrito

|-|
Contributor
May 21, 2013
3,841
Hoffman left a massive hole in the line for Thurston to wander through last week too, but at least he puts his hand up to cart it up and run a line for his halves partner, more than what most are offering.

The teams defence as a whole is amazingly bad, they don’t move up, they don’t communicate, other than to point YOURS when they can’t get across.

Was watching Storm Cowboys, the cows were doing the same shifts out to Thurston, they did against us, but cooper cronk would see the ball was going to him 2 passes before hand, get up into his face, and his backrower and centre would go with him, nullify the play and ruin their one ‘shot’ in the set of 6.

Even when poor old chad tried that a couple of times against the dragons and panthers, he’d go on his own, miss the tackle, his centre and backrower are way behind him in a fractured line, try time.

McFadden alluded to this in his ‘boat full of holes comment’ you can see they have probably been drilling some attacking plays with lino, he runs them quite nicely, but if they practiced defence at all in the past month, you wouldn’t know it.
 

Afakasi247

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 5, 2014
3,190
The first try right after halftime is a perfect example of it. Hoffman is rushing across field, probably because he knows we can't defend on the edges. Footwork and/or inside ball, and it's going to cause trouble.

At the moment I think he/Mannering/Thompson are just being spread too thin to try and compensate for the lack of defense we have across the park. If they were able to just worry about their channel/man it wouldn't be an issue IMO.
Agree. Our solid back-row is being forced to over compensate for the piss-poor defensive effort of our efforts and rookie halves, thus creating gaps all over the show. They aren't the problem - but they are falling victim to those around them which is creating a shit-storm all around.
 

Jordan G

Guest
I was watching our first defensive sets after halftime. Our line looked like a wildly fluctuating graph on nearly every tackle. There was one where Hoffman came up at decent pace on one side, Thompson on the other, and in the middle Gubb and Lisone were coming up, but they were at least 2 metres behind the other two.

When they go wide it's just a dog's breakfast of players coming up, sliding out, standing flat footed etc. Zero communication.

Starting to think we should be doing some team defense exercises while blindfolded or half the players blindfolded so the other half have to communicate to them. The only way to complete it is to communicate. Sounds weird, but fuck it we have to try something.
 
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Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 30, 2012
7,790
Have had a sort of numbness to our games for the last 2-3 weeks. Nothing really surprises me. Beyond caring about this season.

Sad to see so many young players and under developed Reserves thrown together to try play a game. Only thing stopping me from going off the wall is looking at todays team list and asking myself how may of these players were our top 17 at the start of the year???

Warriors
1 Sam Tomkins
2 Matt Allwood
3 Dominique Peyroux
4 Solomone Kata
5 Jonathan Wright
6 Mason Lino
7 Tuimoala Lolohea
8 Sebastine Ikahihifo

9 Nathan Friend
10 Albert Vete
11 Bodene Thompson
12 Ryan Hoffman
13 Simon Mannering (c)

14 Konrad Hurrell
15 Sione Lousi
16 Charlie Gubb
17 Sam Lisone
18 John Palavi

I think that most people would have wanted something like this back in March;

1) Tomkins
2) Fish or Fusitua
3) Hurrell
4) Laumape
5) Manu
6) Chad
7) Johnson
8) Lilliman
9) TL
10) Matalino
11) Thompson
12) Hoffman
13) Mannering

14) Friend
15) Benry
16) Lousi/Matangi
17) Gubb/Ikahihifo
 

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